Guest Menown Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 It's dumb. It really is. No reason for why some sexes can have some hair, while the others can. It's present in both male and female species of the mammal variety (tajara/human). Hair grows. There's no reason it wouldn't grow. It can also be cut. So why can't males have longer hair, and females have shorter hair?
witchbells Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Also in agreement. It's also quite upsetting to be regularly using a type of hair for one character to later find out it was locked to one gender.
Susan Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 The reason that Tajaran hair is gender locked is because they have very specific gender roles and gender identities and a male with feminine hair - not long hair - would get shunned and his ass kicked. There exists long hair for male Tajaran to use that is masculine. Imagine Nasir in Tajaran Housewife hair.
Guest Menown Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 The reason that Tajaran hair is gender locked is because they have very specific gender roles and gender identities and a male with feminine hair - not long hair - would get shunned and his ass kicked. There exists long hair for male Tajaran to use that is masculine. Imagine Nasir in Tajaran Housewife hair. So you're in favor of removing possible conflict, due to gender roles and gender identities? There isn't the off-chance, somebody has ever stepped out of those boundaries, and due to such, there is no possibility for my character to have that hair. If they were to grow it out and style it on their own, they'd force themselves to refrain from that, due to gender roles. Sue pls.
the_furry Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 The reason that Tajaran hair is gender locked is because they have very specific gender roles and gender identities and a male with feminine hair - not long hair - would get shunned and his ass kicked. There exists long hair for male Tajaran to use that is masculine. Imagine Nasir in Tajaran Housewife hair. So you're in favor of removing possible conflict, due to gender roles and gender identities? There isn't the off-chance, somebody has ever stepped out of those boundaries, and due to such, there is no possibility for my character to have that hair. If they were to grow it out and style it on their own, they'd force themselves to refrain from that, due to gender roles. Sue pls. I can see sues argument for unathi. But the tajara already have pretty blured lines when it comes to gender sex and sexuality. Hair style might be diviant but i dont see a society that is ok with a gay transgendered taj flipping out over hair style
Baka Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 I want opened hair style options for men and women. The idea that males cannot have long hair styled up into curls is ridiculous. Even if it is 'ridiculous'. If a tajaran male wants to walk around with victory curls, that's on them. Same if a human wants to walk around with a beehive.
Jboy2000000 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 I don't know if you'd get in trouble for doing such, but can't you just choose the hair you want thats male/female specific and then change the character's gender, like how you used to change an IPC's colour before it became part of the code?
Guest Menown Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 That doesn't work anymore, Jboy. It forces you into losing your ears as a Tajara, and makes you bald as other species.
jackfractal Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Yeah, that's a side effect of the modifications necessary to make Shells work. From a code perspective, this is trivially easy. I think this is a good idea. The sprites we have are tiny enough that each one could represent dozens of actual hairstyles.
jackfractal Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Yeah, that's a side effect of the modifications necessary to make Shells work. From a code perspective, this is trivially easy. I think this is a good idea. The sprites we have are tiny enough that each one could represent dozens of actual hairstyles.
Killerhurtz Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 TIL hairstyles were gender-restricted. This is 2457. I say let's unlock these hairs.
witchbells Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Can we at least do this for humans, if Sue wants to keep the restrictions on tajara so badly? It's obnoxious OOCly and makes no sense ICly.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 I want opened hair style options for men and women. The idea that males cannot have long hair styled up into curls is ridiculous. Even if it is 'ridiculous'. If a tajaran male wants to walk around with victory curls, that's on them. Same if a human wants to walk around with a beehive. Tajaran live in in such a society that a tajaran wandering around Adhomai with this hair would get the meow kicked out of him. It'd really get the fur flying. Humans should do whatever though. We're allowed to be the snowflakes of the galaxy. We earned it.
Guest Menown Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Tajaran live in in such a society that a tajaran wandering around Adhomai with this hair would get the meow kicked out of him. It'd really get the fur flying. Humans should do whatever though. We're allowed to be the snowflakes of the galaxy. We earned it. Keep Ahdomai society as an excuse all you want. It doesn't make sense for a /biological/ restriction like that. Besides, the Aurora isn't an Ahdomanian society. If Tajara on the station want to make fun of the catbeast that wears his hair like a girl, why are we preventing that roleplay?
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Tajaran live in in such a society that a tajaran wandering around Adhomai with this hair would get the meow kicked out of him. It'd really get the fur flying. Humans should do whatever though. We're allowed to be the snowflakes of the galaxy. We earned it. Keep Ahdomai society as an excuse all you want. It doesn't make sense for a /biological/ restriction like that. Besides, the Aurora isn't an Ahdomanian society. If Tajara on the station want to make fun of the catbeast that wears his hair like a girl, why are we preventing that roleplay? The same reason I don't let unathi wander around bright pink or eye-blinding banana yellow. You are expected to follow reasonable the guidelines of the species within reason. There are already many Tajaran who run around with borderline disregard for the lore behind the species. We don't need to make it even more irrelevant.
Guest Menown Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 The same reason I don't let unathi wander around bright pink or eye-blinding banana yellow. You are expected to follow reasonable the guidelines of the species within reason. There are already many Tajaran who run around with borderline disregard for the lore behind the species. We don't need to make it even more irrelevant. You're arguing something that isn't possible biologically with something that is. You're going to sit here and tell me that there is /no/ possible way for a male Tajara to grow their hair out as long as a females? Are you really going to tell me that? You're going to tell me that due to the nature of Ahdomai society, a male Tajara will go "I BETTER NOT GROW MY HAIR OUT OR ELSE I WILL BE SHUNNED BACK HOME" right? How about the ones that aren't from Ahdomai? The ones that immigrated whenever they could? Or the ones exposed to human society for so long?
Jboy2000000 Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Yeah, and its nots not like there aren't exceptions already. If long hair is something thats shunned on Adhomai, we should assume homosexuality isn't all that good either. You have a cat whose a gay, head of staff, mafia ringleader.
Nogo3 Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 The same reason I don't let unathi wander around bright pink or eye-blinding banana yellow. You are expected to follow reasonable the guidelines of the species within reason. There are already many Tajaran who run around with borderline disregard for the lore behind the species. We don't need to make it even more irrelevant. The thing I'm seeing behind this though is the question of if it /can/ be considered strictly locked to that of lore. Biological constraints and the ideas of a racial society are something that can be locked down, but for every lore you have to work with generalizations. They're supposed to cover the masses of the society, instead of the whole. Individuals would usually end up doing their own thing. If it's a biological restriction, then that's fine, but if it's not... Might as well be saying a race can't wear blue jumpsuits because they don't like the color blue. I understand trying to get a better hold of the lore and keeping within the guidelines, but is this such a massive breaker for the lore that it has to be cracked down on? Disregarding species lore and opening up realistic options are being portrayed as one and the same here and that just doesn't seem to be the case.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Yeah, and its nots not like there aren't exceptions already. If long hair is something thats shunned on Adhomai, we should assume homosexuality isn't all that good either. You have a cat whose a gay, head of staff, mafia ringleader. And he moved off Adhomai in fear for his life and is an extremely private person. This isn't relevant to the hair issue.
Nogo3 Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Yeah, and its nots not like there aren't exceptions already. If long hair is something thats shunned on Adhomai, we should assume homosexuality isn't all that good either. You have a cat whose a gay, head of staff, mafia ringleader. And he moved off Adhomai in fear for his life and is an extremely private person. This isn't relevant to the hair issue. He moves away from the social norms of his species and generally does things that are shunned among the population. But it doesn't stop him from doing it. It has a lot to do with the hair issue, as what if someone simply doesn't care or any of the other numerous reasons one would have to change their hair up. It's all about the view of what Tajarans normally should do and what an individual wants to do. When those things conflict, you get men with women's hairstyles, Outcast from their own homes, etc. etc. ADDITION: That and the fact that exceptions to the rules have been made before, which causes the greatest fear in all admins, that everybody will want the same exceptions! Spoooky Scurrry! If someone wants to wear their hair a little different, I don't see how that'd be so devastating. The game's meant for having fun and all, and it doesn't really break lore at all. Why lock people out of adding a bit of spice to a group of pixels they're going to have to stare at for hours at a time?
Frances Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 You can hide homosexuality. You can hide a lot of things, such as being transgender as long as you can pass for the opposite sex. What you can't hide is a ridiculous hairdo. And it would be safe to assume you would be judged by the Tajaran community as a whole. It's like, if say, you were part of an overseas colony or mission during the age of exploration, and started wearing dresses as a man. Sure, the natives wouldn't give a damn, but your fellow Europeans would judge you. That's for the lore explanation. As for why this is hard-coded, it's Sue's decision. Ultimately, though, what Jackboot is saying (and what I think Sue fears) is that a noticeable amount of Tajaran players have done very silly things with the species, mostly appearance-wise. We've had blue and pink Tajarans, Tajarans that act in all sorts of ways that have little to do with their original lore, and so on. (And I suspect most of this is due to the "fursona" appeal, but don't quote me on it.) There's very few interesting narratives you can write for a Tajaran with weird hair (maybe they're a rebellious teenager? See, it sounds kinda silly), and a lot of terrible ones. So the restriction removes the potential for terrible ones, while... not getting rid of much else. (Have a good idea why a Tajaran would grow out his hair? Post it!) Another problem to consider is that a Tajaran going against his or her species' social norms would be shunned to great extents - think 1950s white America - while the on-server Tajaran population is extremely progressive and friendly (to other Tajarans), and probably wouldn't care much about enforcing the lore if it meant they could be the unique, welcoming and non-judgmental Tajarans. So it's not a biological restriction, but it basically goes this way: "No sane male Tajaran would grow out his hair. All male Tajarans on station are sane." Not my personal point of view, but trying to help clarify the purpose of the change. If I've gotten anything wrong feel free to correct me.
Guest Menown Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 We've had blue and pink Tajarans, Tajarans that act in all sorts of ways that have little to do with their original lore, and so on. (And I suspect most of this is due to the "fursona" appeal, but don't quote me on it.) There's very few interesting narratives you can write for a Tajaran with weird hair (maybe they're a rebellious teenager? See, it sounds kinda silly), and a lot of terrible ones. Again, people comparing things that aren't possible biologically with things that are. You won't find naturally blue/pink Tajara. You can find them with long hair. The hair doesn't have to be feminine, for God's sake. The sprites can represent anything. It's a matter of using your flavor text to paint a better picture on what people are looking at. As for the rebellious teenager comment, is it entirely impossible for somebody to just want to have long hair? Maybe the character likes their hair, and tries to take care of it? How is it so outlandish that we need a lore justification for this, that it's being lumped together with neon fucking catbeasts?
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 There's still the undercurrent of conservatism in the character, and the fact being a big raging homo is something you can hide pretty well (considering how many people do it IRL out of the same fear of discrimination or violence) but I reject your stance that it's a fear of exceptions. I don't have a fear of exceptions; I've stressed myself to allow unathi players to break the norms. But there has to be an indication that they understand the main lore enough to properly subvert it. They have to understand that whatever it is their unathi does that's not within the culture makes their lizard genuinely extremely weird. Tajaran are already so liberal and rebellious, a byproduct of a large portion of its players being furries who are welcoming and unique all over the place. So there's that difficulty in understanding the society of the Tajaran, despite it being so common IRL. A tajaran male having luscious flowing hair is akin to that weird girl with the purple and pink hair mohawk sitting in the back of the class in highschool. And no characters on the Aurora are meant to be so unstable or unreasonable that they couldn't get through a professional enviroment. But whether it's consistent and acceptable for the race is ultimately up to its overseer, who is currently Sue. Humanity, on the other hand, has long dropped this thing about hair. I see a lot of unnatural hair colors and styles becoming more common, and I live in a very conservative town. You won't find naturally blue/pink Tajara. You can find them with long hair. Except I have found Tajarans who had natural blue and pink fur. It's always hilarious. And the argument isn't whether it's biologically possible. It's an argument of it being allowed as what you see as something that will just be a small fad for the proper characters, will instead become incredibily common because of the player base of the Tajaran.
Nogo3 Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 From Frances summary on the matter, I think I can better understand the issue that's really at hand here. It does seem reasonable to have it so that people don't mess around too much with what all the race is by trying to silly it up quite a bit. It feels more like it's something that would be the responsibility of the player to consciously make when producing a character of the like, and to reasonably stick within the confines of the lore. I suppose my non-rigid views (Which are sprawled in pretty much every post I've made) is what's making this more difficult for me to get. I usually consider lore as something that is changing and flowing, and that people will be however people will be. There's only a few restrictions on how people would generally act, and I'd have to attribute most of these to their life and biology, rather than that of strict lore. Those are my views, hence why I believe something like a haircut is so insubstantial a change that if I was given the proposal (Given I work with some lore myself) I'd probably immediately allow it to happen. This is all what my side is. But, I do believe the option can at the very least be opened up to the players a bit and see what it is that they do with it. It's the player's conscious decision to act out their character, what they are going to do, and how they want them to be. This also means they are capable of understanding fully the extent of the lore they are working under and /should/ be able to work with it as well. I feel like a full denial of the option isn't right in the way of acting as a preventative. I see where they are coming from now, and understand the issues behind it thankfully, and from this am able to take the problem of it a slight bit more seriously. If someone's going to put on a frilly hairdo and be a goofball, fine, but I like to instead think of those that might want to even slightly use it to improve their roleplay. I don't have any circumstantial evidence to how this would go though, so much like Frances I'd hope anyone with a good example could post! Thanks though, Frances. You made it a lot easier for me to understand what the exact issue is. ADD-ON POINT: If they fuck up and make things into norms, I usually see it as fine to take that thing away. I prefer to let a testing period go on and not block out anything for the risk of what could or could not happen. Better to see actual results instead of hypothesis and what-not. All my opinion, dough.
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