How are IPC's OP?

[Reyjakai]

You'd be surprised at how aggressively coders can move if they want to. You linger on a personally fueled argument while glancing over what I proposed, which is neat, but not productive towards a reasonable end goal.

The two initial changes that I outlined are super simple to implement, and I'm of mind to do it once I finish some major moving for another code project.

If the brute damage modifier is going to be removed from IPCs, wouldn't this also remove the damage modifier from all robotic limbs as well, even those on humans and other races? Additionally, wouldn't this make robotic limbs ridiculously fragile? As far as I was aware, the purpose of robotic limbs is that they'll fly off if they take too much damage, unlike organic limbs which have a much higher threshold for dismemberment. If the limb damage is going to be the same as for humans, (Since steel is as strong as bone, it would seem) then the damage that robotic limbs could take before blowing up would also be higher.

Why not go about it another way? EMPs are lethal, why not make IPCs have brute resistance, but a weakness to burn damage? Or why not apply this to the limbs specifically, as the torso would generally have more protection? You could even tone down the IPC's brute damage to .25 reduction and increase their weakness to burn damage by .25. It's all how it's decided to be worked.

With that in mind, IPCs not being able to be flashed has never made sense to me. Anything that works on the station cyborgs (Especially with the construction change where they're structurally identical in manufacture to an IPC) should also work on IPCs. Just my thoughts.

Another option that may be possible (I'm not sure how hard it would be to code) is to make IPCs that have skin able to be tased, whereas the TV heads can't be. It's a thought.

[Reyjakai]

You'd be surprised at how aggressively coders can move if they want to. You linger on a personally fueled argument while glancing over what I proposed, which is neat, but not productive towards a reasonable end goal.

The two initial changes that I outlined are super simple to implement, and I'm of mind to do it once I finish some major moving for another code project.

If the brute damage modifier is going to be removed from IPCs, wouldn't this also remove the damage modifier from all robotic limbs as well, even those on humans and other races? Additionally, wouldn't this make robotic limbs ridiculously fragile? As far as I was aware, the purpose of robotic limbs is that they'll fly off if they take too much damage, unlike organic limbs which have a much higher threshold for dismemberment. If the limb damage is going to be the same as for humans, (Since steel is as strong as bone, it would seem) then the damage that robotic limbs could take before blowing up would also be higher.

Why not go about it another way? EMPs are lethal, why not make IPCs have brute resistance, but a weakness to burn damage? Or why not apply this to the limbs specifically, as the torso would generally have more protection? You could even tone down the IPC's brute damage to .25 reduction and increase their weakness to burn damage by .25. It's all how it's decided to be worked.

With that in mind, IPCs not being able to be flashed has never made sense to me. Anything that works on the station cyborgs (Especially with the construction change where they're structurally identical in manufacture to an IPC) should also work on IPCs. Just my thoughts.

Another option that may be possible (I'm not sure how hard it would be to code) is to make IPCs that have skin able to be tased, whereas the TV heads can't be. It's a thought.

[Skull132]

If the brute damage modifier is going to be removed from IPCs, wouldn't this also remove the damage modifier from all robotic limbs as well, even those on humans and other races? Additionally, wouldn't this make robotic limbs ridiculously fragile? As far as I was aware, the purpose of robotic limbs is that they'll fly off if they take too much damage, unlike organic limbs which have a much higher threshold for dismemberment. If the limb damage is going to be the same as for humans, (Since steel is as strong as bone, it would seem) then the damage that robotic limbs could take before blowing up would also be higher.

Why not go about it another way? EMPs are lethal, why not make IPCs have brute resistance, but a weakness to burn damage? Or why not apply this to the limbs specifically, as the torso would generally have more protection? You could even tone down the IPC's brute damage to .25 reduction and increase their weakness to burn damage by .25. It's all how it's decided to be worked.

 

Your point about robotic limbs is invalid and wrong. That is not how the code works, and the robotic limbs have not changed one bit from the way they were a year ago. All species have variables for brute_mod and burn_mod. This does not apply to specific limbs. Humans with synth limbs gain no bonus nor penalties, regardless of how I touch it.

Also, you gave me an idea. A long, long time ago. IPCs had a bug(?) where they took burn damage from electrodes. Basically, probably on the count of the electricity arcing across the two nodes of an electrode. What if we bring that back, and further make them suffer additional burn damage? As a bit of a, very specific niche. It won't be anything that has the capacity to down them, but the compound effect is kind of kek, in my book.

 

Another option that may be possible (I'm not sure how hard it would be to code) is to make IPCs that have skin able to be tased, whereas the TV heads can't be. It's a thought.

 

I like this idea. Looks like a live thing, taze it. Then again, the issue with it: the entire idea of shells is supposed to be creepy. If they turn out being completely human, then you lose some of the creepy.

[Skull132]

If the brute damage modifier is going to be removed from IPCs, wouldn't this also remove the damage modifier from all robotic limbs as well, even those on humans and other races? Additionally, wouldn't this make robotic limbs ridiculously fragile? As far as I was aware, the purpose of robotic limbs is that they'll fly off if they take too much damage, unlike organic limbs which have a much higher threshold for dismemberment. If the limb damage is going to be the same as for humans, (Since steel is as strong as bone, it would seem) then the damage that robotic limbs could take before blowing up would also be higher.

Why not go about it another way? EMPs are lethal, why not make IPCs have brute resistance, but a weakness to burn damage? Or why not apply this to the limbs specifically, as the torso would generally have more protection? You could even tone down the IPC's brute damage to .25 reduction and increase their weakness to burn damage by .25. It's all how it's decided to be worked.

 

Your point about robotic limbs is invalid and wrong. That is not how the code works, and the robotic limbs have not changed one bit from the way they were a year ago. All species have variables for brute_mod and burn_mod. This does not apply to specific limbs. Humans with synth limbs gain no bonus nor penalties, regardless of how I touch it.

Also, you gave me an idea. A long, long time ago. IPCs had a bug(?) where they took burn damage from electrodes. Basically, probably on the count of the electricity arcing across the two nodes of an electrode. What if we bring that back, and further make them suffer additional burn damage? As a bit of a, very specific niche. It won't be anything that has the capacity to down them, but the compound effect is kind of kek, in my book.

 

Another option that may be possible (I'm not sure how hard it would be to code) is to make IPCs that have skin able to be tased, whereas the TV heads can't be. It's a thought.

 

I like this idea. Looks like a live thing, taze it. Then again, the issue with it: the entire idea of shells is supposed to be creepy. If they turn out being completely human, then you lose some of the creepy.

[JKJudgeX]

[...] thus my comment about removing them entirely, because I realize that now they are in, whittling them down to reasonable will be a very, very long process that we'll not see the end of before we all no longer play SS13.

 

You'd be surprised at how aggressively coders can move if they want to. You linger on a personally fueled argument while glancing over what I proposed, which is neat, but not productive towards a reasonable end goal.

The two initial changes that I outlined are super simple to implement, and I'm of mind to do it once I finish some major moving for another code project.

 

1) I wasn't talking about coding speed. I'm a programmer, myself, professionally and a hobbyist (with some experience in SS13 Paracode codebase). I was talking about the long process of re-balancing due to having to carefully chip away bit by bit, and test, and let the community have some feedback, and so on and so forth, because it's rare for big sweeping changes to be done all at once... plus all the gnashing of teeth when you take away someone's antag-immunities, and everyone threatening to quit due to nerfs and so on and so on as from any given big multiplayer game with "classes" that have to be rebalanced from time to time.

2) I didn't just "glance over" what you proposed, I just didn't have a reply for it because I don't think either of your two options are enough, nor would they be if combined. There just should have never been a race that requires no breathing and has no bloodstream/organs/bones that is not rule-shackled to the A.I., immobile, handless, unable to communicate, or otherwise fundamentally crippled... - and by "should have never been" I mean to be in compliance and in balance with the rest of the regularly available jobs and races. So, all I could have really said in a reply would have been "yeah man,either of those is a good start, I wish it was already in."

[LordFowl]

Another option that may be possible (I'm not sure how hard it would be to code) is to make IPCs that have skin able to be tased, whereas the TV heads can't be. It's a thought.

 

I like this idea. Looks like a live thing, taze it. Then again, the issue with it: the entire idea of shells is supposed to be creepy. If they turn out being completely human, then you lose some of the creepy.

 

An alternative; provide a clear message indicating when a tazer bolt fails because of the species it is fired upon "The taser bolt diffuses across X's skin, producing no effect!"

[Reyjakai]

Skull, I think I should have prefaced that with "I have no idea how coding works in general, much less how SS13 code works."

Oops.

Also, I thought I heard somewhere that robotic limbs take half brute damage on humans. Was that wrong?

And another idea to your idea. What if we gave a massive movement and accuracy penalty to IPCs that are in crit? That way IPCs that are in crit can't run or chase you, and ones that are shooting at you (If their arms are somehow still working) likely won't be able to hit you.

[jackfractal]

There is actually something about robot limbs on organic characters take 0.6 damage from both brute and burn. In comparison, IPC's take 0.5 damage on their limbs from Brute and 2.0 damage from Burn. That's why lasers are so good at knocking off IPC limbs, but why it takes ages to kill them with a toolbox.

The relevant lines are 85-95 in organ_external.dm.

Changing the IPC resistance won't affect how the robotic limbs work for humans though, no worries there.

[Reyjakai]

There is actually something about robot limbs on organic characters take 0.6 damage from both brute and burn.

 

If IPC limbs are changed, shouldn't human robotic limbs be as well? That way an engineer with a robotic limb could just as easily have it blown off by being stupid (Or a human with robotic parts) just as easily?