IPC's, occupation qualifications, skills

[Dreamix]

http://aurorastation.org/wiki/index.php?title=NanoTrasen_Occupation_Qualifications

So, do IPC players needs to stick to this, forcefully/artificially making their characters older, just to make them fit for that head of staff position (or literally any position), or can just say that occupation qualifications do not apply to synthetic units?

How about "applicable degrees from accredited schools"? IPC's need to somehow complete these schools, or can just download lots of guides and aid from the extranet, rendering themselves as fit for duty?

Can IPC's have every skill set to "experienced" on their skill sets, as they already know everything due to existence of the extranet? Or need to "forgot" how to set up the singularity engine, when they happened to be a medical doctor?

It bothers me a lot. I mean, I already have some IPC characters, that are 17-years old and they know everything, but just refuse to "take someone's work".

[Dreamix]

http://aurorastation.org/wiki/index.php?title=NanoTrasen_Occupation_Qualifications

So, do IPC players needs to stick to this, forcefully/artificially making their characters older, just to make them fit for that head of staff position (or literally any position), or can just say that occupation qualifications do not apply to synthetic units?

How about "applicable degrees from accredited schools"? IPC's need to somehow complete these schools, or can just download lots of guides and aid from the extranet, rendering themselves as fit for duty?

Can IPC's have every skill set to "experienced" on their skill sets, as they already know everything due to existence of the extranet? Or need to "forgot" how to set up the singularity engine, when they happened to be a medical doctor?

It bothers me a lot. I mean, I already have some IPC characters, that are 17-years old and they know everything, but just refuse to "take someone's work".

[Eliot Clef]

It bothers me a lot. I mean, I already have some IPC characters, that are 17-years old and they know everything, but just refuse to "take someone's work".

 

I've seen this discussed very briefly, and the short of it is: I'm 99% certain you're not supposed to do this and that being a robot is not an excuse to be universally competent. You can absolutely be a very 'young' synthetic who is qualified to and is in fact in a Head position, because that's how Synthetics work, but being omni-competent isn't really ok.

The long answer: As in real life, a robot is going to be made to perform a particular task. Our robots are sapient, and therefore can learn. They probably even learn dramatically faster than non-robots do, since they can literally be programmed to do a task expertly. My take on this is that a synthetic has effectively one "department" that they're going to be excellent at (their intended purpose when manufactured) and usually not much else.

The problem is, yeah, they can still learn, and they can probably learn way faster than anybody else.

So, for instance, IAM is Trained in all skills relevant to any Security post. (This includes Anatomy, for performing autopsies during investigations and also for more effective take-downs in theory.) Why? Because that's his role. If some minor thing is absolutely needed but not available, I have him faff around a bit while he downloads some relevant drivers. Minor construction, etc.

For more major things, I think you really do need to just sit on your hands and let other people deal with it. Or not deal with it at all, as the case may be. As for occupation qualifications, I'm pretty sure Synthetics just bypass them categorically. If they're made for X post, they're assumed to be competent at X post.

[Eliot Clef]

It bothers me a lot. I mean, I already have some IPC characters, that are 17-years old and they know everything, but just refuse to "take someone's work".

 

I've seen this discussed very briefly, and the short of it is: I'm 99% certain you're not supposed to do this and that being a robot is not an excuse to be universally competent. You can absolutely be a very 'young' synthetic who is qualified to and is in fact in a Head position, because that's how Synthetics work, but being omni-competent isn't really ok.

The long answer: As in real life, a robot is going to be made to perform a particular task. Our robots are sapient, and therefore can learn. They probably even learn dramatically faster than non-robots do, since they can literally be programmed to do a task expertly. My take on this is that a synthetic has effectively one "department" that they're going to be excellent at (their intended purpose when manufactured) and usually not much else.

The problem is, yeah, they can still learn, and they can probably learn way faster than anybody else.

So, for instance, IAM is Trained in all skills relevant to any Security post. (This includes Anatomy, for performing autopsies during investigations and also for more effective take-downs in theory.) Why? Because that's his role. If some minor thing is absolutely needed but not available, I have him faff around a bit while he downloads some relevant drivers. Minor construction, etc.

For more major things, I think you really do need to just sit on your hands and let other people deal with it. Or not deal with it at all, as the case may be. As for occupation qualifications, I'm pretty sure Synthetics just bypass them categorically. If they're made for X post, they're assumed to be competent at X post.

[Xelnagahunter]

My IPC, Qwerty, was a station AI for years. It learned a lot by wtaching and sometimes by helping the applicable departments. It Then got approved for an IPC and was deemed to have "paid" for it retroactively. Now Qwerty is a free unit with knowledge of basic construction, some research techniques, and the like. Most of it's construction information came from spending time in a mobile chassis (android). It moved on to download a robotics database and filled it's pre-programed knowledge centers. It's on;y remaining file space is for recorded memory. Qwerty is now a reasearch director who specializes in robotics and R&D. I Don't let him think about touching anything biological, he simply doesn't know enough and has no real interest in learning that skill set. It's all about being a good RPer and limiting yourself.

[Xelnagahunter]

My IPC, Qwerty, was a station AI for years. It learned a lot by wtaching and sometimes by helping the applicable departments. It Then got approved for an IPC and was deemed to have "paid" for it retroactively. Now Qwerty is a free unit with knowledge of basic construction, some research techniques, and the like. Most of it's construction information came from spending time in a mobile chassis (android). It moved on to download a robotics database and filled it's pre-programed knowledge centers. It's on;y remaining file space is for recorded memory. Qwerty is now a reasearch director who specializes in robotics and R&D. I Don't let him think about touching anything biological, he simply doesn't know enough and has no real interest in learning that skill set. It's all about being a good RPer and limiting yourself.

[Dreamix]

It bothers me a lot. I mean, I already have some IPC characters, that are 17-years old and they know everything, but just refuse to "take someone's work".

things and stuff

Just to clarify, because somehow that did not ended up in the original post. By all means, I am not running around, screaming about how my IPC's are superior to your puny mortals. So far, I used this three, or four times to set up the singularity engine at 0:20, when there were no engineers present, after asking a head of staff, and with the help of AI. My characters just refuse to do anything outside of their job (Unless its a minor thing like moving a table, or applying a bandage. Or the singularity engine, of course.), claiming that they won't be paid for doing it, and it would be a waste of resources.

Also, I'm asking because it does not look very convincing to see my IPC character's blank employment records. It would be nice to have a page on the wiki, dedicated to some synthetic studies, or synthetic schooling programs.

[Dreamix]

It bothers me a lot. I mean, I already have some IPC characters, that are 17-years old and they know everything, but just refuse to "take someone's work".

things and stuff

Just to clarify, because somehow that did not ended up in the original post. By all means, I am not running around, screaming about how my IPC's are superior to your puny mortals. So far, I used this three, or four times to set up the singularity engine at 0:20, when there were no engineers present, after asking a head of staff, and with the help of AI. My characters just refuse to do anything outside of their job (Unless its a minor thing like moving a table, or applying a bandage. Or the singularity engine, of course.), claiming that they won't be paid for doing it, and it would be a waste of resources.

Also, I'm asking because it does not look very convincing to see my IPC character's blank employment records. It would be nice to have a page on the wiki, dedicated to some synthetic studies, or synthetic schooling programs.

[Xelnagahunter]

I'm quite sure your IPC is free to attend school. Once you are no longer NT property you become a free entity and can apply for citizenship and the like. Sure, organics may look down upon and despise you for "taking over" their world, but who cares? You're a heartless robot, right?

[Xelnagahunter]

I'm quite sure your IPC is free to attend school. Once you are no longer NT property you become a free entity and can apply for citizenship and the like. Sure, organics may look down upon and despise you for "taking over" their world, but who cares? You're a heartless robot, right?

[Frances]

If there's no official lore stance on this (but there might be, I challenge Jackboot to go ahead and surprise me), then this might warrant actual discussion.

There's one big obvious reason why everyone can't be skilled in everything on HRP - immersion. The whole point of HRP was to turn SS13 into a semi-realistic experience, and the 21 year old cargo tech who knows how to set up the singularity and perform brain surgery just kills that. You don't see it in any other roleplay medium, and when you do, these characters are deemed mary sues and everyone hates them (unless your whole universe is based around every character being super OP, in which case, well then.)

IPCs obviously don't fall under that rule - station borgs can be proficient at everything because they could come with an infinity of subroutines adapted for every situation (well, let's say.) So in theory IPCs would have no obligation to be limited to certain skills or qualifications (and it would honestly make more sense considering they're basically AIs put on a humanoid chassis).

However, this brings up another issue - game balance.

Balance in LRP isn't terribly fussy on what people can and can't do - LRP servers let everyone do whatever the fuck they please, and power is mostly gated by ID access, equipment, and the players' relative skills with various SS13 mechanics.

Is this balance different on HRP servers? That's what we'd need to establish. A character proficient in every area of the game (even with lore reasons) would indisputably be at a certain advantage over one restricted to specific fields of expertise. How important is this advantage, however, and is it big enough to enforce rules on IPCs not "knowing" how to do something outside their jobs?

Non-engineer IPCs hacking doors is an issue that'd come to mind. I remember a while back admins had to put a ban on detective characters hacking doors because every detective had some reason in their backstory to know how to work with complex electronics, and it gave them a really big advantage on tracking down lawbreakers and troublemakers without needing to rely on anybody else. Are there any other issues like that we can think of that would arise from letting IPCs do whatever they want (as needed)?

[NebulaFlare]

I have an idea. Most IPCs relate their knowledge through on-job experience of their prior existence. Security androids become security officers, engineering androids become engineers, etc. Some can download additional resources.

I'm arpeeing my new IPC Echo as being too unstable to directly download information to be a full-fledged doctor. It's too risky for a shard. The alternative answer? She attends high-speed online classes specifically designed to tutor IPCs via external learning. She processes things much faster than a human, but must complete the necessary steps of learning like an artificial intelligence.

An IPC still needs to exhibit the necessary skills to perform their job. So they need to pass a test for qualification. They still need to earn a degree, or receive some form of certified experience - it can just be achieved much faster, or be learned from prior experience. And some job aspects still require on-job experience. For engineering IPC, they can download info on setting up the singulo flawlessly. But we can agree that certain skills cannot be learned by-the-book, which downloading essentially is. Jobs that are more experienced based, like security, are more inclined toward having the IPC as designed for that actual task, or working for experience. A security IPC can know all the laws flawlessly, but how does it know when to determine a threat on a per-incident basis?

How's that for synthetic qualifications?

[Lady_of_Ravens]

So, I just got my IPC app approved and I've been looking over the lore forums and such while waiting for it actually to be added in-game and this is something that I've put a fair amount of thought into. I'm used to playing a core AI who has IC reason to know how to perform any job on the station she can actually do (or assist with), and any time I RP her not knowing how to do something is really just covering for a gap in my knowledge as a player. This is a great attitude to have for a core, but for an IPC it seems a little op.

My IPC LiLITH is a bespoke intelligence which has merged with quite a few other AIs and similar programs as a means of growth and diversification. For example, she uses the intelligence of a sub-sentient sex-robot as her primary motor control program, and she tricked an emergent AI into merging with her to gain access to it's greater ability to understand certain abstract ideas such as beauty. But at her core, she's a logical learning machine who could, theoretically, become skilled in everything (hell, she's old enough and has enough different shells that she could actually already be skilled in everything). Here are the limitations I've come up with for her abilities:

1) None of her modules are well suited to dealing with organic emotions, so obviously she'll never (without assimilating another program) be a shrink or an inspiring commander.

2) Her composite nature results in reduced reaction times, so while she might be able to calculate precise firing patterns, she's not an amazing personal combatant.

3) Even with a high-end posibrain she can only store and run so many programs at a time... far more than a squishy organic brain can hold, but a LiLITH shell working in R&D may not be carrying it's full set of medical expert systems, for example. They could be loaded in (which takes some time as they're not small programs), but she's not running around with every skill in her head at once.

4) Developing expert systems to handle tasks is a processor-intensive task and isn't done trivially.

I may also be adopting the "not my jobsworth" attitude Dreamix mentioned... running off to do tasks unrelated to one's job may be helpful, but LiLITH isn't on Aurora to be helpful. Why she is there I'm not going to say (though it's nothing as simple as being a syndicate double-agent), but she's the sort of machine who might see a crew member gasping to death from a ruptured lung and, rather than help, simply call medical and go back to her work.

Even so, these don't seem like nearly the level of restrictions that are placed on organic players... should I be trying to come up with more reasons/ways to limit her skills?

[jackfractal]

Like Raven's post indicates, AI's and positronic IPC's can have an enormous number of complicated origins that would result in skillsets that would be more diverse then that of organic crew.

My personal philosophy in terms of designing the lore for synthetics has been to be as permissive as possible.

Almost everyone who plays an AI plays some kind of advanced super-powered deep-black project ultimate learning engine. That's cool, it's a fun archetype to play, but if that's the character you also play as an IPC I encourage you to consider this: If your character were an omni-competent super-ninja, why would they have the job that they have, and not be out leading special operations squads for NT or taking over the galaxy?

There are legitimate lore-following reasons for IPC's to have every skill at levels higher then their organic counterparts. They'd be enormously expensive and valuable, and they'd be at severe risk of being jacked and deconstructed for replication, but it's possible. That being said, playing such a character is not much fun for the other people you're playing with, so if you consistently play a character who is amazing at everything then you may find yourself contacted by the Duty Officers.

They won't fire you, why would they? You're amazing. They wish they had a hundred just like you. That's why they will promote your character away from the Aurora to do tasks more suited to their incredible skills.

In practical terms for job skills, just don't be able to do everything. You should need other people. You should ask for help. You should not have an answer to every situation.

[SierraKomodo]

I personally made up IC reasons for the restrictions on characters to match my IPC Katana. NanoTrasen only contracted her for security, atmospherics, and station bound AI work. Therefore, any knowledge she may have of other fields are blocked/non-existant while in the NT contracted IPC chassis (Whether it be through access to certain databanks being firewalled, certain systems being suppressed by the chassis, etc). It's a rather simple and probably vague explanation, but it works when someone asks for something Katana can't do in that role.

[Killerhurtz]

Considering question answered, locking and archiving. PM me if it is an error.