[Withdrawn] Damarik's Grenade Case

[Damarik]

=This post has been Redacted by the Author=

Edited October 2, 2015 by Guest

[Damarik]

=This post has been Redacted by the Author=

Edited October 2, 2015 by Guest

[Dreamix]

1. Think realistically. Whatever item you apply for is supposedly carried to work and back home nearly every single day they spend aboard NSS Aurora.

2. Be creative. Custom items are not about simply giving your character a unique look and to serve as visual showpieces. They can be, and should be more than that: something to tell a story, help tell a story, or help create/direct an experience.

3. No weapons. Let's make this clear, despite point one hinting towards this: no regular employee of NSS Aurora is permitted to take non-regulation weaponry, firearms or otherwise, aboard NSS Aurora whilist acting in normal capacity.

Well, rules. I don't think a case of medicinal grenades is anything other than "Oh look, I can do stuff you can't do, ordinary people".

However, I would like to recommend you creating a thread in the private terminal:

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=43

Like this one:

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3675

Slight edit: However, I think that a regular case would be okay, as a alternate skin to a "suitcase".

[Damarik]

As the developer of the devices with continued testing in mind, these would be on his person most days when he enters the lab, so he can further improve on them. Not only this: but they would be a boon to Medical when short-staffed and hit with a massive amount of casualties.

[SierraKomodo]

As the developer of the devices with continued testing in mind, these would be on his person most days when he enters the lab, so he can further improve on them. Not only this: but they would be a boon to Medical when short-staffed and hit with a massive amount of casualties.

 

Miraj is also working on her own designs for this, but she doesn't come on station with them on her person. They're still experimental, not authorized technically, so she spends the time to fill out the proper paperwork, get signed off by command staff, then creates the prototypes for use if she's a chemist, or for testing if she's in science.

[TishinaStalker]

I'm heavily considering approving this, but under one condition. This item will be job restricted to Chemist, and will not come with a beaker in them. That way, it won't really be an advantage because they're entirely useless until you load them up with chemicals.

[SierraKomodo]

I'm heavily considering approving this, but under one condition. This item will be job restricted to Chemist, and will not come with a beaker in them. That way, it won't really be an advantage because they're entirely useless until you load them up with chemicals.

 

I'd have to disagree with this. Letting him come on station with these grenades, even if it's only as a chemist and with them empty, has just undermined and put him about another character that's been ICly developing a similar device, and I think this would be used to imply 'I dont need approval or paperwork, the fact I can bring these materials means I'm pre-approved by Central'.

[TishinaStalker]

Maybe said character should apply for something then if they want to. There's not even any specific paperwork required for this as far as I'm aware, but I will add that you must make sure your CMO is in the know about the grenades. It'll create interaction with your custom item. What say you, Damarik?

[Damarik]

I'm perfectly fine with this idea. As seen above, I'm developing a list of grenades that have been proven to work, and I'd like to continue testing with them to see about further application of the devices. The biggest drawback is having to create the casings from scratch at the beginning of every round, and I usually end up wasting about half an hour every round start just gathering the materials and making the casings to produce enough test equipment.

I will agree that this is a Chemist Only option, as it would also make working with Virology a thing when you want to produce the Antigen grenades. I also agree with the "Empty Casings" requiring filled beakers. It makes enough sense that Central wouldn't allow live grenades onto the station in the hands of a chemist. He'd have to install the chemicals while he's there.

[Damarik]

As the developer of the devices with continued testing in mind, these would be on his person most days when he enters the lab, so he can further improve on them. Not only this: but they would be a boon to Medical when short-staffed and hit with a massive amount of casualties.

 

Miraj is also working on her own designs for this, but she doesn't come on station with them on her person. They're still experimental, not authorized technically, so she spends the time to fill out the proper paperwork, get signed off by command staff, then creates the prototypes for use if she's a chemist, or for testing if she's in science.

 

Sorry if you feel I'm stepping on your toes here, Sierra. That really isn't my intent. I'm just trying to have fun with this like anyone else. I wouldn't have any problems with Miraj also doing this either. Perhaps the two can work as a team on the project?

[Contextual]

Let me put on the table that beyond both Miraj and Damarik, there are yet more chemists and scientists on the station developing grenade-based products and prototypes. Is this bad? Not inherently. Is it unique? Not quite, but it's the spin that matters.

But here's the rub. This item will give you an inherent advantage. This is against the rules. Not to mention, realistically, without a lot of red tape and signatures, Odin security would never allow your scientist to come and go with these nondescript grenade casings complete with timer-igniter assemblies unmolested.

And then, as the lovely red cherry on top, anyone familiar with the medbay layout and/or longstanding chemists from before the map change knows that there is a crate in medbay storage that contains:

3 Igniters

3 Timers

4 Grenade Cases (reg)

So, you already have grenades* at your disposal. The only point of this item, then, is to give you more, which frankly you shouldn't have the time to test anyways in the span of a normal round. If you are already using your prototypes on the crew in live-fire situations, then quite frankly your character is conducting a big ol' science no-no.

*some assembly required.

[TishinaStalker]

I'm perfectly fine with this idea. As seen above, I'm developing a list of grenades that have been proven to work, and I'd like to continue testing with them to see about further application of the devices. The biggest drawback is having to create the casings from scratch at the beginning of every round, and I usually end up wasting about half an hour every round start just gathering the materials and making the casings to produce enough test equipment.

I will agree that this is a Chemist Only option, as it would also make working with Virology a thing when you want to produce the Antigen grenades. I also agree with the "Empty Casings" requiring filled beakers. It makes enough sense that Central wouldn't allow live grenades onto the station in the hands of a chemist. He'd have to install the chemicals while he's there.

 

Don't forget to clear it up with a CMO or RD (in lack of CMO) or next relevant head of staff (in lack of CMO + RD). Hell, even inform colleagues too. As long as you're making research RP, then I'm cool with it as that is the core purpose of this custom item. Now, how would you like them to look exactly? I'll need a design that looks similar to grenade casings. Something that you'll look at and go "That's going to explode".

 

The only point of this item, then, is to give you more, which frankly you shouldn't have the time to test anyways in the span of a normal round.

 

That is barely even a legitimate advantage because they're ultimately useless until he gets to his lab in order to do his job because they lack beakers. I've already talked this out with Scopes, and we both came to agreement so long as the item is job restricted to Chemist. Will not argue semantics any further after our ruling.

[Damarik]

The case (whichever is used) can look however, especially if it becomes a Chemistry Specific item and not just mine. That way, there's no real love lost on making a specific carrying case.

I've sprited up some new grenades for use on this particular purpose. I can transfer the .dmi in any way you choose. Also did a basic briefcase mod, though I'm not too happy with how it came out...but...eh.

[Baka]

No way in hell would any workplace allow you to bring your very own homemade pre-made grenade casings. I mean, even the grenades in storage you need to write paperwork with the head of staff in order to even cast your shadow on the grenades.

Would any head of staff feel comfortable with allowing someone come in pre-spawned with grenades they don't even know about?

[TishinaStalker]

No way in hell would any workplace allow you to bring your very own homemade pre-made grenade casings. I mean, even the grenades in storage you need to write paperwork with the head of staff in order to even cast your shadow on the grenades.

Would any head of staff feel comfortable with allowing someone come in pre-spawned with grenades they don't even know about?

 

It's a research station. I don't see why chemists, who also research chemicals when not making medicine and COULD also be considered research staff, would not be permitted at all to bring experimental gear onto the station for research purposes. He also already has the restriction of needing to clear it up with a CMO or relevant head of staff.

 

The case (whichever is used) can look however, especially if it becomes a Chemistry Specific item and not just mine. That way, there's no real love lost on making a specific carrying case.

I've sprited up some new grenades for use on this particular purpose. I can transfer the .dmi in any way you choose. Also did a basic briefcase mod, though I'm not too happy with how it came out...but...eh.

 

Add that to your application then, please.

[Contextual]

You have [GRENADES] easily accessible to you.

 

Hand labelers are also easily accessible.

 

They're still readily accessible in [MEDBAY]. I don't see the point of this as a custom item.

 

No weapons. Let's make this clear, despite point one hinting towards this: no regular employee of NSS Aurora is permitted to take non-regulation weaponry, firearms or otherwise, aboard NSS Aurora whilist acting in normal capacity.

 

There's literally a reason as to /why/ [GRENADES] is restricted to the [LIMITED, DISMANTLED SUPPLY]. NT doesn't want you making off with sensitive things like, you know, the [GRENADES]????

Custom items are not supposed to give you an edge in-game.

You're really talking about how you "[iNVENTED] it", but there's literally a reason as to why [GRENADES] takes almost an [TEN MINUTES] to set up completely.

[TishinaStalker]

View points and philosophies shift over time as I have demonstrated (go look at Nebula's app for a pink screwdriver that's easily accessible and decisions between Scopes and I on this app). Quoting me from things that happened before the custom item hiatus means nothing.

[Zidanyia]

View points and philosophies shift over time as I have demonstrated (go look at Nebula's app for a pink screwdriver that's easily accessible and decisions between Scopes and I on this app). Quoting me from things that happened before the custom item hiatus means nothing.

 

Take this from an antagonist perspective. Oh, look, this specific person gets free, instantaneous access to make a lot of dangerous grenades, just because they applied for it on the forums. They arguably have much more power over the round than any other chemist who has to actually run over to R&D, sign a multitude of fluffy forms in order to get one large grenade casing to antag with. The latter has to face the risk of being denied that, and will not be able to toss grenades with reckless abandon like the person applying for this custom item would.

Does this seem unfair to you, or what?

Anything that gives a player immeasurable, varying levels of power without having to work for it in a round is not fair, to me. It disrupts the natural game (im)balance in favor of catering to someone who wants a unique item.

If you legitimately accept this, you're going to have to cope with a lot of people applying for idle items meant to perpetuate a fucking power fantasy, laughing like madmen as they ignore obstacles commonly encountered with normal gameplay. Anything that 'let's you skip a step or two' is not okay under any flag or banner of development. It defeats the nature of job difficulty.

Next, someone is going to ask for a case of clean SE injectors to bring to work.

[TishinaStalker]

Oh, look, this specific person gets free, instantaneous access to make a lot of dangerous grenades, just because they applied for it on the forums.

 

Scopes and I were planning on making the grenade case so that it can't spawn in if the player is a round start antagonist such as Changeling, Nuke, starting cultist/traitor. If they become an antag at some point throughout the round, then there's barely an advantage in starting with it because the player would have no rhyme or reason to consider using them for antag things until they become an antag. If we find out that they were gearing up the custom grenades in case they become an antag, then that's metagaming, and he loses his custom item. Any other concerns?

[Zidanyia]

Oh, look, this specific person gets free, instantaneous access to make a lot of dangerous grenades, just because they applied for it on the forums.

 

Scopes and I were planning on making the grenade case so that it can't spawn in if the player is a round start antagonist such as Changeling, Nuke, starting cultist/traitor. If they become an antag at some point throughout the round, then there's barely an advantage in starting with it because the player would have no rhyme or reason to consider using them for antag things until they become an antag. If we find out that they were gearing up the custom grenades in case they become an antag, then that's metagaming, and he loses his custom item. Any other concerns?

 

Besides it being an unnecessary hassle to code in and still betraying of the custom item guidelines?

Awkward precedent you're going back on here.

[TishinaStalker]

Completely different examples in-terms of implications behind what telescience and an empty grenade casing can do, and an exaggerated example employed as a stratagem in discussion to try for the upper hand, but I assume that ultimately answers "No" to my question. I will now wait for Damarik's response on him updating his application.

[Damarik]

After seeing all of this go down, I believe I will redact my application. There's too many people who would feel affronted by me obtaining this item, and as I told Sierra, I'm not going to step on any toes here.

The thing that really gets me though is that I've been playing on Aurora for a while now, and with one minor End of Round infraction aside: I have never done anything to break any rules...nor have I abused the positions I've played. To think that the first thing anyone can think of when they imagine me with this item is: He's going to abuse it (because that's what this all boils down to when you examine it) is quite frankly insulting.

Between Quinton Liere's access to pretty much any kind of weapon or device he wants through hacking a Cargo Console and Auto Lathe, to Maximus Altaire's All-Access Pass to any department on the station, Darius Leomine's ability to concoct any number of dangerous substances in the kitchen and hydroponics bay or Damarik's ability as both Virologist and Chemist to REALLY screw up someone's day: I would have hoped at this point that my dedication to my characters in an RP setting would have put me past this kind of biased scrutiny. I'm not a New Player, nor am I any kind of Power-Gamer, and that some of you would think so after me being around for so long frustrates me to no end.

Tish, if you and Scopes ever need any spritework done, let me know. I'd be more than happy to assist. However, I don't think I'll be adding any further input to the forums for a while. This thread has shown that there are those around who still require surety that I'm not some kind of Meta-gaming bastard.

[TishinaStalker]

People are overly paranoid for some ridiculous reason. Shame on them at this rate, honestly, but hey, if you want to withdraw then fine by me. Don't let these people discourage you from applying for a custom item in the future like they're doing now. Application withdrawn, have a nice day.