Staff Complaint - Killerhurtz

[hivefleetchicken]

BYOND Key: Hivefleetchicken

Staff BYOND Key: Killerhurtz

Reason for complaint: I really don't know where to start with this, so I'll give my point of view.

Part One: The round itself (and the mess it was)

I woke up from being SSD to my PDA having been robbed and three dead, maimed bodies in cargo in the middle of a round. Right off the bat, I was having a pretty lousy time, but I was prepared to still make the most of it. Then, out of nowhere, the RD, Pink Eyes and a Jester Laughing (or something) says in all caps over the radio that the entirety of science was overrun by radium spitting death vines. Naturally, the crew freaks out. Two minutes later, FOUR people reportedly die from a breach caused by someone in science, and everyone says it was the RD. People in cargo also accuse the RD, I agree. We opt to hide on the mining outpost, but instead we realize people are trapped in research. They state the RD refuses to let them out and is ignoring their calls for help, leaving them to literally die. At this point, we're all pretty fed up with the RD ICly, and we decide to help people who are trapped. We load up with first aid, team up with engineering, make crossbows to harpoon the plant pods that are shooting vines at us while medical and engineering use flamethrowers and emitters to kill vines and clear out escape.

I see the RD standing around while I myself am trying to rescue the crew he (allegedly) attempted to manslaughter, and I cable tie him. I drag him from departures, take out his headset and his bag of holding (to keep him from shooting me with his scifi guns), before buckling him to a chair in the bar, telling him how many people he's gotten killed, and that he's not coming on the shuttle with us. The shuttle the arrives, I go to it, hand my gear over to sec, and sit down.

 

Part Two: Killerhurtz enters the tournament (guns blazing)

Right when I buckle the RD to the chair, I get PM'd by Killerhurtz, asking me what I'm doing. I explain to him first the had got my friends killed, and that I'm leaving him to his fate on the station since he's too much of a murderer (AND TOO DANGEROUS) to be allowed onto the shuttle with the humane people. Killerhurtz then tells me I'm getting banned if he dies. I explain to him the situation, and he tells me "That's too bad, he didn't have anything to do with it anyway" (which unfortunately is untrue; the guy was 100% involved with locking people in research with deadly vines, ignoring their pleas for help, and making golems instead of saving lives) and slaps me with this warning without even hearing me out.

I don't know where this claim came from. But it's untrue and I was punished before even being proven guilty. It was not the end of the round, a crossbow was not used to threaten the RD in any way, and no actual harm ended up coming to the RD.

So, I try to be reasonable, and I tell Killerhurtz that this stuff isn't true and that he should most likely check the logs if he's curious, and then he threatens to ban me for two weeks instead of hearing me out. I'm not gonna' tolerate this "I'M ALWAYS RIGHT AND YOU'RE DEFINITELY WRONG AND/OR LYING WHICH MEANS I SHOULD BAN YOU" behavior from a moderator.

 

Part Three: What no why

So, he slaps me with this warning without due process or any evidence, not even a full testimony from me, and I explain to him how the stuff that was said didn't actually happen (ZERO ZERO ZERO harm came to the director during this entire event), and he instead just responds that the warning is staying because I was self-antagging. The problem with this is that the crossbow was for the space vines (my character knows jack shit about xenobotany and that you can only burn those plants, he wanted to harpoon the living pods with burning metal rods). Other people in cargo had crossbows, too, medical had flamethrowers, engineering was firing emitters in the central hall, and the halls were all breached. I didn't charge into battle against anyone. I didn't go rogue and fight security and refuse to surrender. I literally cable tied one guy who caused upwards of five deaths, tied him to a chair, went to the shuttle and handed my gear to the Security Commander. I tell Killerhurtz that I'll have to make a complaint if he really wants to keep the original warning reason, and he tells me to go ahead.

 

Evidence/logs/etc: Here is the extent of my attack logs on the RD, where I supposedly attacked him with a crossbow and flushed him down disposals.

G'wir Sym'udiad has put cable restraints on Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing!

G'wir Sym'udiad is trying to remove Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing's research director's headset!

G'wir Sym'udiad is trying to remove Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing's research director's jumpsuit!

G'wir Sym'udiad is trying to remove Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing's purple labcoat!

G'wir Sym'udiad is trying to remove Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing's top-hat!

G'wir Sym'udiad is trying to remove Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing's bag of holding!

G'wir Sym'udiad is trying to remove Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing's Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing's ID Card (Research Director)!

Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing is buckled to the wooden chair by G'wir Sym'udiad!

I restrained him with a cable without any violence at all. I just slipped them on while he stood outside of research while people screamed for help.

I took his headset when he started screaming "HELP HELP CARGO TECH KIDNAPPING" over the radio.

I then removed his labcoat, his had, his bag of holding, and his ID (I left the jumpsuit on), tossed his bag of holding and ID, and buckled him to a chair. Then I declared that he was a murderer, and was not coming with us.

That's it.

 

Here is the part of my conversation with Killerhurtz from the bar scene all the way to the end of the shuttle ride:

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: Excuse me. What are you doing?

to Killerhurtz: This guy got my friend killed.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: So?

to Killerhurtz: So I'm leaving him to die.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: If he dies you're getting banned for self antagging. Stop immediately.

to Killerhurtz: I literally sat in cargo while this guy did nothing but unleash vines and get guys sucked into breaches, so I finally came up to him, cable tied him, threw his powergamey gear into disposals and cuffed him to a chair far away from departures.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: That's too bad, because he had nothing to do with it anyway.

to Killerhurtz: That's what was said ICly. So I pretty much agreed with the rest of the crew in that the RD was a dangerous asshole, and I dealt with him in a way that involved no active harm.

You have been warned by an administrator.

Click here to review and acknowledge them!

to Killerhurtz: :L

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: The disposals is not exactly harm-free.

to Killerhurtz: I didn't put him into disposals.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: That's not what he's saying.

to Killerhurtz: I buckled him to a cchair in the bar.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: Or what any of the other witnesses are saying. The only reason he survived is because he split.

to Killerhurtz: You can view the logs, I didn't put him in disposals.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: I WILL get logs. And if it turns out you did, I'm giving you a two-week ban for lying to staff.

to Killerhurtz: Sure thing.

to Killerhurtz: And what if I didn't put him in disposals?

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: If you didn't, that warning is still in place for the contraband crossbow and the kidnapping.

to Killerhurtz: Then I'm gonna' have to make a complaint, sorry.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: Go ahead.

(The round ended at this point)

Additional remarks: Let it be known that I don't want to make this, but I can't abide this warning in the slightest. It's utterly backwards and a testament to how the staff think they're always right, and don't hear players out before sticking ridiculous claims at them with no evidence.

[LordRaven001]

Hive, Since I was the Research Director and I pointed this out with another staff member. You run up behind a slow diona as a fast tajaran say absolutely nothing cable tie them and then run off? That's ganking, to the extreme. You jumped to conclusions ICly and OOCly, As I alerted the crew numerous times through the announcements to report my xenobotanist who created the vines and released them (Who was an antagonist changeling) to security. You would also notice how nobody around me was hostile or targeting me and nobody said anything over the communications because of that communications removing event, Were you heard that from is hilariously wrong. I numerously ran into the research department which was over-run by vines to save two people with a sentient slime.

We bwoinked the xenobotanist later on for releasing round-ending vines. What you did here wasn't ok you took a situation you knew nothing about as you were disconnected from the game, automatically presumed it was the research director, charge behind them with zero roleplay and cable tie them with a deadly powered crossbow, And ignore all forms of RP you just sped off no matter how many times people told you to stop. You then buckle me to a chair take all my things and disposal bin me, That is when I split and vent crawled away to safety.

You also forgot to add the logs of you disposal binning any items or the second ahelp you made next round discussing it more indepth with Killer, You should post those too.

Killer had the full support of the on server staff team to make this decision, excluding me as I cannot deal with or speak on my own ahelps.

[hivefleetchicken]

Hive, Since I was the Research Director and I pointed this out with another staff member. You run up behind a slow diona as a fast tajaran say absolutely nothing cable tie them and then run off? That's ganking, to the extreme.

 

Let me stop you here, because you've already jumped to a false conclusion.

In order for me to have ganked you, I would have run up behind you, point blanked you in the head with a crossbow, and then punched you to death without saying anything, and throwing you out of an airlock.

I wasn't even a "fast tajaran" (whatever that means) because I was wearing EVA gear since "someone" vented all of science.

If you think handcuffing someone without monologuing to them first (and then proceeding to explain to them that because of their alleged involvements in the killing of multiple crewmembers that they can't come on the shuttle, before leaving them completely unharmed) is gank in the most extreme form, as you say, you're very deeply and sadly mistaken. I told you exactly why I did what I did to you. There was absolutely no gank. At all.

You had might as well start banning officers who cuff people without reading crewmembers their Miranda rights, since not talking before performing a handcuffing is, in your opinion, gank in the most extreme form.

 

You jumped to conclusions ICly and OOCly, As I alerted the crew numerous times through the announcements to report my xenobotanist who created the vines and released them (Who was an antagonist changeling) to security.

 

You could totally use this as a point if you had made any attempt in IC chat to explain this to me. Instead of doing so, you said "HEY THIS IS BREAKING RULES" in LOOC, and called for someone to stop me.

 

You would also notice how nobody around me was hostile or targeting me and nobody said anything over the communications because of that communications removing event, Were you heard that from is hilariously wrong.

 

I don't know what communications removing event you're talking about. If I remember correctly, when you called for help I was applauded by the crew. People literally said "You deserve it" and "look what you've done to the station", so if you think it was just me, you're once again mistaken.

 

I numerously ran into the research department which was over-run by vines to save two people with a sentient slime.

 

I was told over the radio by Sunny Daise, someone who was trapped in there at the time, that you did nothing to help her and left her to die. I didn't hear anyone say you rescued anyone else, too. Any attempt to explain this to me in IC chat might have helped.

 

We bwoinked the xenobotanist later on for releasing round-ending vines. What you did here wasn't ok you took a situation you knew nothing about as you were disconnected from the game, automatically presumed it was the research director,

I didn't know "nothing about" the situation. I knew (or in this case HEARD) that you allegedly released the vines, put a lockdown on research, abandoned scientists to die, and let people get sucked into breaches caused by you. There were deadly vines literally everywhere. Arrivals, dorms, medical, science. They were everywhere. The presumption, as you can see in the logs, was not mine alone. Plenty of people thought it was you and thought you were a killer.

 

charge behind them with zero roleplay and cable tie them with a deadly powered crossbow, And ignore all forms of RP you just sped off no matter how many times people told you to stop.

 

This is a part I really don't get - the gank accusations. I did not gank you in the slightest. I didn't point or wave a weapon at you at all. I did not rush straight to your location to kill you. I went into research to save people, saw you standing around in an open airlock, and I cable tied you and dragged you away.

One person told me to stop, and it was a sentient slime man. I told him "No." And then got to a safe distance and explained to both you and over the radio why I did it. The others congratulated me for keeping you off the shuttle. I also talked to you in IC chat three times before cuffing you to the chair, explaining how you were a murderer and you were not coming with us. You didn't say anything outside of LOOC. You're just plain lying now. :L

 

You then buckle me to a chair take all my things and disposal bin me, That is when I split and vent crawled away to safety.

 

I didn't disposal bin you. I threw away your bag of holding and ID because I didn't want you killing me or any other survivors with wacked out science gear.

 

You also forgot to add the logs of you disposal binning any items

They didn't register as attack logs, and they got skipped over. I'm pretty sure I also explained in the complaint that I did in fact disposal them, so....?

 

or the second ahelp you made next round discussing it more indepth with Killer, You should post those too.

 

I forgot to add those in the heat of the moment, but they don't really matter anyway because it was just dialogue between me and him asking for the logs and not getting them, and then us talking about literally the same stuff I brought up on this complaint. I'm typing on my phone, so I can't add them, just the ones from the current round.

If you want, feel free to grab them after you prove the logs of me flushing you.

 

Killer had the full support of the on server staff team to make this decision, excluding me as I cannot deal with or speak on my own ahelps.

 

I would think he would, considering what was said to have happened.

If I had actually attacked you with a crossbow, cuffed you, dragged you to a disposal bin at the docked shuttle, and flushed you without any words being said, you could have banned me on the spot. I would totally understand.

Unfortunately, zero of the above stuff is true, and none of it has been proven. Yet I'm still being punished for it.

I cuffed you peacefully.

The shuttle had not docked at this moment in time.

Everyone had weapons because there were fucking vines killing people all over the station.

I explained to you why I did what I did.

I flushed your bag of holding to keep you from killing me with the gear in it the second you were unbuckled.

I did not flush you.

I did not self-antag.

I didn't hold you hostage at gunpoint, battle security over possession of you, or throw a single punch OR fire a single shot. No harm came to anyone at all. To try to warn me for this is like warning an assistant for pushing someone they heard was murdering people in dorms.

[LordRaven001]

Straight from the Head Admin himself.

[Guest]

Under the context you gave them, then that would be a correct assertion to make. Except there was more to it in the situation than the officer just running up on you and handcuffing you. Said officer had an RP reason to do what they did.

 

No ganking.

While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)

 

You would've had to have been killed or legitimately taken out of the round (read: not able to play the game) for this rule to take any level of effect. Gank has zero relevance in this case.

You have a nasty habit of giving as little information as possible whenever something seemingly wrong happens to you in IC, LR, and then twisting the truth for your own ends.

[LordRaven001]

Under the context you gave them, then that would be a correct assertion to make. Except there was more to it in the situation than the officer just running up on you and handcuffing you. Said officer had an RP reason to do what they did.

 

No ganking.

While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)

 

You would've had to have been killed or legitimately taken out of the round (read: not able to play the game) for this rule to take any level of effect. Gank has zero relevance in this case.

You have a nasty habit of giving as little information as possible whenever something seemingly wrong happens to you in IC, LR, and then twisting the truth for your own ends.

 

1138, you do realize they weren't a security officer right? They were a cargo technician who charged into lethal vines to cable tie me.

[hivefleetchicken]

1138, you do realize they weren't a security officer right? They were a cargo technician who charged into lethal vines to cable tie me.

 

Here you go again, stating I "charged" directly for you and you only. I actually went in with engineering and medical to save people, as I stated above, and we burned our way into escape and research (which were both clogged with weeds) with emitters and flamethrowers, and you happened to be there with a golem and loose slimes running around. I didn't run specifically after you, it was a crew-wide rescue mission to save people (from you) and you were the bad guy in it.

[Skull132]

Can someone list me folks who were around to witness these events real quick? IC name is fine, I can fetch ckeys as necessary.

[hivefleetchicken]

Sunny Daise is an important one, Killerhurtz said there were multiple witnesses saying they saw me flush the RD, even though it was just me and the RD.

[Skull132]

Tracking, will inquire with them tomorrow.

Also, fetched the logs. No notices of Raven getting placed inside a disposals unit. Cuffed and stripped -> eeyup. Flushed? Nope.

However. The log is generated at the end of the disposals placing process. Game logs cannot confirm whether nor not Hive started to place Lord Raven into disposals. Mostly why I asked for witnesses.

As for the relevance of gank, and the little screencap that was posted out of modsay. If the situation is as it was presented to me at the time, then yes, it is a shit thing to do and awful RP. Now, before any of you post walls of text reiterating what has already been said: I've yet to go over the situation in depth, and have yet to confirm whether or not the situation actually is as it was presented to me in modsay.

So please, hold yer horses on that count.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Guest

[Killerhurtz]

So, from my point of view:

One of the antags unleashed deadly vines from hell (it was a xenobio, vines were full of thermite and toxin). Everyone blames it on the RD because of a goatmachine incident, while the RD puts Research on lockdown to try and stop the vines from spreading (which unfortunately failed) and trying to find things that could be immune to it (making a golem and a sentient slime, which WERE immune until the golem exploded for some reason).

I call a shuttle (I was a captain) and we start evacuating. The RD and two scientists (and the golem and slime) actually found a way to kill the vines and were working on freeing Departures, and they leave a now vine-free Science to proceed on until Hive arrives.

Then LordRaven ahelps (even though he had access to modsay) that it was happening - that Hive's character was kidnapping the RD with an illicit crossbow because "he let his friend to die". I tell him to stop, and someone else in msay mentioned that they were certain they saw the RD being put in disposals. I took the call because I was the only one not even remotely involved at that moment.

I scrolled past the chaos to get logs showing that SOMETHING was happening (I ended up unable to find the logs in the chat for the disposals, only for the cuffing and stripping, and my requests for the full logs among the admins never made it through/I left before it was completed because it was getting late), then I slap on a warning as mentioned (because I knew that I could edit/remove it at any time). When questioned about it, Hive provided no valid explanation for the kidnapping beyond "I was told the RD was at fault for the vines and it killed a friend of mine, so I'm going to leave him to die to his own creation", and no valid explanation (either metagamey or nonsensical) as to why exactly he had a powerful contraband weapon (the main "explanation" given for why he had it was that, IC, he "thought it could help against the vines" and that there was doctors with flamethrowers (saying that if THEY had improvised weapons, why not him? Completely ignoring the fact that Research were the ones who distributed them. Never did he provide a reason as to why a cargo technician had the knowledge to build such a weapon, either). And so I was led to believe that the crossbow had been made for the sole purpose of having a weapon in case the kidnapping went wrong.

Later, after no one could provide logs/screenshots of anything more than an ID being flushed down the disposals, I edited the warning to reflect it, keeping the "self-antagging by kidnapping someone with an illegal weapon" part in but removing the mention of that event. I felt the warning was still entirely warranted on these grounds - everything past the kidnapping was simply additional info I was adding.

Note that I still haven't seen the full logs of the event so I might be missing some more info.

Edit: I re-read Hive's post, and here's what I have to say:

-The two-week ban thing was NOT to shut him up. The sentence I said amounted to this: "I'm going to triple-check logs, and it's a two-week ban if you lied to staff." The logs he posted in Part 4 proves this, and as far as I know it is a rule. And I did not ban him because I have no evidence that he directly lied.

-Zero harm DID come to the director (as they split into nymphs to escape at some point), and that's not what the warning is for. The warning was for the kidnapping with intent of leaving the character to harm.

-The "five deaths" as mentioned were in an attempt to contain the problem. I would have done the same. The xenobio that caused the vines, as mentioned, was later poked.

Otherwise I have nothing to add.

Edit edit: Read Hive's second post:

-I do not remember any crew applauding, and it's in the logs that you completely stripped the RD starting with the headset, if I remember.

[hivefleetchicken]

I scrolled past the chaos to get logs showing that SOMETHING was happening (I ended up unable to find the logs in the chat for the disposals, only for the cuffing and stripping, and my requests for the full logs among the admins never made it through/I left before it was completed because it was getting late), then I slap on a warning as mentioned (because I knew that I could edit/remove it at any time).

 

I seriously want to stress that you should never have jumped the warning gun on this, since you took a bunch of falsified testimonies and combined them into a fake warning, and now look at what we both have to deal with. No muy bueno.

 

When questioned about it, Hive provided no valid explanation for the kidnapping beyond "I was told the RD was at fault for the vines and it killed a friend of mine, so I'm going to leave him to die to his own creation",

"No valid explanation", you say, aside from the valid explanation of how the guy was a murderer and destroyed the station.

 

and no valid explanation (either metagamey or nonsensical) as to why exactly he had a powerful contraband weapon

 

Except I actually had an explanation as you state five seconds later.

 

(the main "explanation" given for why he had it was that, IC, he "thought it could help against the vines"

 

There was a station wide lack of air, deadly vines everywhere, and (unofficial tally of) upwards of 8 crew deaths. If you think I'm not going to use my limited survival skills as a rebel kitty cat and make a little improvised slingshot in order to escort my best friend out of a nasty pickle... You don't have a very good grasp on what a majority of the playerbase would do, then.

 

and that there was doctors with flamethrowers (saying that if THEY had improvised weapons, why not him?

 

I fail to see how this also isn't a good point. If the rest of the crew had weapons, why did you specifically punish me for it? Because I just happened to handcuff someone whilst holding one?

 

Completely ignoring the fact that Research were the ones who distributed them. Never did he provide a reason as to why a cargo technician had the knowledge to build such a weapon, either).

 

Research did not distribute all of the improvised weapons, unless you can have the logs to back up that every single flamethrower that round was made by them.

I'm sorry, dude, but I'm really done with taking your word on things after this.

I don't know how research would distribute weapons as you said, anyways, since science was under lockdown for t he entire situation. Everyone was trapped in there. How they magically handed flamethrowers to people on the other side of blast doors vexes me.

 

And so I was led to believe that the crossbow had been made for the sole purpose of having a weapon in case the kidnapping went wrong.

 

More of the false assumptions; I even explained to you in PMs that I thought the plant PODS (not the vines but the things shooting vines out) were simple mobs and not effects or objects, and could be killed with any weapons. Plus, why would my character know any of this?

 

Later, after no one could provide logs/screenshots of anything more than an ID being flushed down the disposals, I edited the warning to reflect it, keeping the "self-antagging by kidnapping someone with an illegal weapon" part in but removing the mention of that event. I felt the warning was still entirely warranted on these grounds - everything past the kidnapping was simply additional info I was adding.

 

Right. As of 5:45pm PST, the warning has not changed.

 

Note that I still haven't seen the full logs of the event so I might be missing some more info.

 

I don't like how you told me in PMs that the RD had literally nothing to do with the situation at all. As you later admit in this post, he did in fact cause "five deaths" in order to contain the vines. Sure, it doesn't make him the round antagonist, but it proves he did in fact have involvement in this.

 

I did not ban him because I have no evidence that he directly lied.

 

I want to talk about this because this is the main point of what I'm going on here. You're completely backwards in this. You don't get to punish me halfway for things that have not been proven, and promise to fully carry through with punishments WHEN (not if) you have the proper evidence. Last night you warned me off of something that didn't happen in the slightest, as we've learned, and told me that you "WILL find the logs", as though it was indisputably so; that I REALLY WAS LYING TO YOUR FACE, and so when you did, you would ban me for two weeks. Read the logs, you said nothing about "Well, sure, hive, let me fetch the logs, and see if this is true". You said in all caps that you WOULD find the logs and I'd be tried. You didn't. Even. Hear me out.

 

The "five deaths" as mentioned were in an attempt to contain the problem.

 

Another point where you lied to me in PMs. If I recall correctly, you directly told me the RD has ZERO to do with literally any of the events.

" to Killerhurtz: I literally sat in cargo while this guy did nothing but unleash vines and get guys sucked into breaches, so I finally came up to him, cable tied him, threw his powergamey gear into disposals and cuffed him to a chair far away from departures.

[Moderator PM] Killerhurtz: That's too bad, because he had nothing to do with it anyway."

It seems he had a lot to do with that second part according to your word last night. I don't know why you're changing the story now.

 

I do not remember any crew applauding, and it's in the logs that you completely stripped the RD starting with the headset, if I remember.

 

I kept the RDs headset on until he stated "HELP HELP CARGO TECH KIDNAPPING" or something over the radios. No one called for him to be rescued - quite on the contrary, actually. Players did in fact cheer me on (although it was less of them cheering ME on and just saying "Glad the RD is cuffed and not coming on the shuttle, that guy destroyed the ship"

You BOTH need to stop lying to me and others, and check the logs before coming up with the facts you two keep coming out with.

Saying "I don't remember this happening" is, in admin language, "this didn't happen but I'm not fully invested in proving it".

Stop lying to me, please. I'd like this warning removed, and that's all. I don't want any punishment to come to the staff who (sorry to say it but it's true) lied about what happened, and carried out an extremely unprofessional investigation which consisted of nothing but their (false :L) word against my (not at all considered by said admins) word. But since it all went so ridiculously I really can't sit with what this warning has meant.

The other staff on the server at the time of the warning, which you earlier used as an alibi in which you said they all agreed with you, were lied to directly. No duh they would support you, the claims against me were ones even I would support a ban on.

I want to drop this as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to so long as this warning stays.

[Brightdawn]

Hello!

Skull asked me to add my two cents to the situation so I will!

I was one of the people trapped in research as a direct result of the RD not only refusing to listen to me but refusing to help me despite being only a few steps away from me, I also saved him from being killed in his office but nope he left me trapped in a room with no means of escape.

I would argue given how much my character made it known over coms, and shouted at the RD in person that he had no way of not knowing where I was and that he could save me, but no he left me in a room waiting to die, if it wasn't for an Atmos tech, my only way of escape would be to disposals myself, I'd argue that the RD did effectively the same thing to me that you banned/warned Hive for, its just that my cage was bigger.

[hivefleetchicken]

Hello!

Skull asked me to add my two cents to the situation so I will!

I was one of the people trapped in research as a direct result of the RD not only refusing to listen to me but refusing to help me despite being only a few steps away from me, I also saved him from being killed in his office but nope he left me trapped in a room with no means of escape.

I would argue given how much my character made it known over coms, and shouted at the RD in person that he had no way of not knowing where I was and that he could save me, but no he left me in a room waiting to die, if it wasn't for an Atmos tech, my only way of escape would be to disposals myself, I'd argue that the RD did effectively the same thing to me that you banned/warned Hive for, its just that my cage was bigger.

 

I'd like to ask, did you state over the radio at any point that you needed someone to help you/rescue you from science? More importantly, did you include that you needed help in your radio message BECAUSE the RD was directly/indirectly about to cause your death in his inaction?

One of the claims against me is that I was the only person with the idea that the RD was a bad guy. If you voiced, however, that you agreed the RD was/seemed-like/might-have-possible-been-a bad guy over the radio that round, then it proves I wasn't the only one.

[Brightdawn]

I did indeed say multiple times that the RD left me there I played Sunny Daise if that helps find logs!

[MagnificentMelkior]

 

And so I was led to believe that the crossbow had been made for the sole purpose of having a weapon in case the kidnapping went wrong.

 

More of the false assumptions; I even explained to you in PMs that I thought the plant PODS (not the vines but the things shooting vines out) were simple mobs and not effects or objects, and could be killed with any weapons. Plus, why would my character know any of this?

 

Note that I still haven't seen the full logs of the event so I might be missing some more info.

 

I don't like how you told me in PMs that the RD had literally nothing to do with the situation at all. As you later admit in this post, he did in fact cause "five deaths" in order to contain the vines. Sure, it doesn't make him the round antagonist, but it proves he did in fact have involvement in this.

 

I did not ban him because I have no evidence that he directly lied.

 

I want to talk about this because this is the main point of what I'm going on here. You're completely backwards in this. You don't get to punish me halfway for things that have not been proven, and promise to fully carry through with punishments WHEN (not if) you have the proper evidence. Last night you warned me off of something that didn't happen in the slightest, as we've learned, and told me that you "WILL find the logs", as though it was indisputably so; that I REALLY WAS LYING TO YOUR FACE, and so when you did, you would ban me for two weeks. Read the logs, you said nothing about "Well, sure, hive, let me fetch the logs, and see if this is true". You said in all caps that you WOULD find the logs and I'd be tried. You didn't. Even. Hear me out.

This is all classic killerhurtz behavior and I'm glad that there is such a clear cut case of it coming forth. Killerhurtz always behaves this way, whether he is right or wrong, and I've never seen him be sorry about it. There's a meme about internet forum moderators that they are megalomaniacal because they have no power in real life. That's generally not true in my experiences, and I of course have little information about Killerhurtz IRL, but he is the type of mod that allowed this meme to be born and to thrive. No one, including myself, likes to bring forth these types of claims as they invariably stir up drama, but I am glad that you have made this case, because it needs to be made.

------------------------------------

Stop lying to me, please. I'd like this warning removed, and that's all. I don't want any punishment to come to the staff who (sorry to say it but it's true) lied about what happened, and carried out an extremely unprofessional investigation which consisted of nothing but their (false :L) word against my (not at all considered by said admins) word. But since it all went so ridiculously I really can't sit with what this warning has meant.

I want to drop this as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to so long as this warning stays.

And I'm afraid, Hive, I must ask you to go further than that. The reason that megalomaniacal mods get in power and stay in power is because the general population of users are generally too apathetic (after all, its just a game) to care about the politics of their server, while these types of people DO care. But if you allow a no-fault resolution to this, "justice" (insofar as it has meaning in a 2d spaceman rpg forum) will once again be postponed.

You are right, the circumstances of this case are truly egregious. The jurisprudence followed by killerhurtz in this case is so terrible that I don't think he should be a moderator anymore. Would anyone have hired him on if they knew this is how he would conduct investigations? Lying to his team, and the subject, issuing punishments before proof or even full testimony is collected, intimidating the witness by threatening increased punishments for defending himself...

Sorry to put it on you Hive, but you are the opportunity. I must ask you to pursue the full measure of justice here, rather than just wiping away your warning and forgetting about it.

[LordRaven001]

Now then, Killer acted on the full brunt of my complaint and with evidence provided from the witnesses (Who were also staff members), As stated he did not act alone and discussed with his staff team at the time of this incident, Killer has a long history of being a great staff member and little to no counts of abuse, This warning, from the staff team at the times point of view was justified, We would all have done the same thing if a Cargo Technician charged into swarms of lethal killer vines to enact self righteous justice because they "Killed their friend" It did not occur to the player at all that security (Being there to catch criminals) Would arrest the party responsible, And so they enacted vigilante justice. We don't allow people to run around and kidnap,steal, build controband weapons, and disposal people, or leave them to die as non-antags, That takes a player out of the round for an indefinite ammount of time.

[hivefleetchicken]

Now then, Killer acted on the full brunt of my complaint

I really wish he would have (no offense) used his head before doing so, and I believe I urged him to multiple times in PMs to possibly take a step back and not act instantly on the full brunt of claims without evidence. Unfortunately he did not listen.

 

and with evidence provided from the witnesses (Who were also staff members),

evidence

We've already established that no evidence was provided.

I don't know what the fuck is going on anymore.

 

As stated he did not act alone and discussed with his staff team at the time of this incident, Killer has a long history of being a great staff member and little to no counts of abuse,

Unfortunately both of these statements don't do much for me. I've already stated how what was told to the other staff members at the time totally warranted a ban. But what was told to the staff members was untrue. So, once again, no duh, of course they'd support him.

 

This warning, from the staff team at the times point of view was justified,

You think this warning is justified, after all we've discussed? THIS here is a good description of what happened?

 

We would all have done the same thing if a Cargo Technician charged into swarms of lethal killer vines to enact self righteous justice because they "Killed their friend"

Self righteous justice? Have you not read that I was going in to rescue Sunny?

If I wanted to exact justice, I would have harmed the diona, handed them to security, or done something. Instead, I viewed it was an act of defense to lock the diona up so he couldn't harm anyone else. It wasn't for revenge, it was to keep others safe. The difference in those two explanations is small to detect but it means a lot. And I've already explained this.

 

It did not occur to the player at all that security (Being there to catch criminals) Would arrest the party responsible,

Being there to catch criminals? Security was dead. All we had was a skrell interim sec guy, and he was running around like a chicken without its head. The round had turned into a free for all. There were no departmental boundaries or real efforts to keep station society maintained. It was mayhem.

 

And so they enacted vigilante justice.

Self righteous justice? Have you not read that I was going in to rescue Sunny?

If I wanted to exact justice, I would have harmed the diona, handed them to security, or done something. Instead, I viewed it was an act of defense to lock the diona up so he couldn't harm anyone else, as a side objective while I was rescuing people from him. It wasn't for revenge, it was to keep others safe. The difference in those is small to detect but it means a lot. And I've already explained this.

 

We don't allow people to run around and

Uh oh.

 

kidnap

I didn't hold you hostage, or kidnap you, LR. I dragged you down a hall and placed you in the open while buckled to a chair. That's it. Anyone could unbuckle you if they wanted. You were not kidnapped, please stop trying to use this term.

steal

Didn't happen.

build controband weapons

Except you do. As stated a hundred times in this complaint, everyone else had contraband weapons. So you do allow people to build them, and even distribute them en masse.

and disposal people

Didn't happen - why are you even saying this shit?

or leave them to die as non-antags

You're a diona. No harm would come to you from radium, from breaches, or from ANY of the things currently killing the crew. Admit it. You were completely safe, just slightly inconvenienced.

Literally every single one of those things you stated doesn't hold up at all.

 

That takes a player out of the round for an indefinite ammount of time.

The shuttle had docked by the time I left the bar. Not only that, but I didn't actually take you out of the round at all. All I did was buckle you to a chair and leave you. That's a four minute sentence to sit still. You were not taken out of the round.

From a meta standpoint, as well, if the round was still going, I would have taken more time with this whole kidnapping thing you say I did. Even if by me cuffing you to a chair, you were instantly gibbed, the next round came along less than minutes later.

ICly, the shuttle was docking, and my character didn't want a murderer on the shuttle. Neither did the other people who cheered when the RD was announced to be "kidnapped".

[Serveris]

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a staff complaint regarding said incident(s). It is permissible, however, to provide testimony regarding a staff member's behavior backed by proof, in the form of screenshots or logs.

 

Tone down on the peanut gallery, please. This is not the place to post your opinions on any of those involved. This is where evidence and discussion pertaining to a singular incident is shared.

EDIT:

After being approached by forum mods, I'm going to temporarily lock this topic.

Give me 24 hours. I'll bring this up with the others, and we'll decide how to proceed from there. This is something that needs to be discussed among them, and I'm not keen on seeing it get more muddled and clogged up than it already has been.

[SierraKomodo]

I'm going to step in here for a moment. Do any of you think you're going to get any further with this discussion/complaint without arguing over the same points continually, before an admin can arrive to post their decision on this thread?

If not, I'd recommend leaving it be for Skull or another admin to review. Going back and forth over the same issue(s) isn't going to do much more than inflate the thread and make it take longer to review everything posted.

Also, what Serveris said.

[Skull132]

Okay, so, as far as I'm tracking. The station is in a state of general chaos, at the point where weapons building is permitted. Even if RnD was handing out the flame throwers in question, it literally means that shit's so fucked that improvised weapons are also a go. And if the character knows how to build them, and believes they may be valid for the scenario, then I see little to no reason to call foul on this. Specially if all cargo techs did this, with the same goal and intent.

Second. Self-antagging. This is not explicitly mentioned by the rules (gonna get that fixed), but it's a byproduct of the rules requiring that you roleplay a believable character. (Note believable, as opposed to realistic.) The working definition of such a clause should be: do not partake in antagonistic action as a non-antagonist character unless you have believable IC justification for such action. To illustrate this with an example: a non-antagonist can murder another character, if there is legitimate reason and RP behind it. If the situation has escalated to such heights, basically.

In our case, we're discussing action that's a good few notches below that. As far as I'm tracking, the intent was to go help those trapped. Which looks good. And it also looks like the other cargo techs were involved as well? Ergo, we can just go and ask them. Names, again, IC or OOC will be fine and I can run'em down. If other techs were involved, then there is nothing to really support any theory of Hive gunning straight for the RD. It was a a target of opportunity. And with the round's description posted, I'm inclined to believe the justification for it was valid enough.

Regarding ganking. The gank rule does not only apply to deaths, take this for reference. However, it's not really applicable here. In order to turn this situation into gank, what Hive would have to have done is something like this:

• Go into Research with the express intent of fucking up the RD in one form or another
• Cuff him with no words
  
• Drag him somewhere and leave him there just like that

 

However, since points one and three are not applicable, I would not consider this gank. Due to the nature of the game, 90% of arrests (legal or illegal) need to be conducted without warning. Otherwise, the other side is going to pull a flash and flash you. The fix for it would be to very heavily enforce confrontation rules, along the lines of, "Both sides must respond verbally in such a situation and, using emotes and speech, roleplay out the arrest." Which we don't enforce.

If anyone can point out an incorrect conclusion or invalid information in my post, please, point it out.

With that, complant unlocked. Let's resume the dialogue and get this fixed.

[Killerhurtz]

About the "ganking" part, I will agree that point one is not applicable as it WAS a target of opportunity - however the "drag him somewhere and leave him there just like that" part definitely happened as far as I can tell - as Hive dragged off the RD to the bar (an arguably dangerous location due to the status of the station), buckled them into a chair (still cuffed) and then proceeded to remove every single item the RD had - including headset - and throwing them out.

[Skull132]

Did you read Hive's post detailing how he went about the capture? Please do so. While I do find the snip of, "Removing his powergamey items" snippy, Hive not only claims to have tried to communicate with the RD, but also that he removed the headset after the RD called for help over comms. Also, if the goal was to leave someone unable to escape, is that not what one would have to do in order to do it properly?

I will fetch logs in the mean time to confirm these attempts.

[hivefleetchicken]

Hive dragged off the RD to the bar (an arguably dangerous location due to the status of the station), buckled them into a chair (still cuffed) and then proceeded to remove every single item the RD had - including headset - and throwing them out.

 

Right, the bar was actually completely weed free if I remember correctly. Even if the bar had weeds in it, the diona wasn't in any harm since the plants couldn't hurt Diona. I did communicate with the RD when buckling him to the chair, and I didn't take every single item they had, just their backpack and ID. Everything else was kept on the RD or on the floor next to him, within arm's reach.

[Skull132]

All the logs for days:

Line 49943: [23:54:09]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : RrrD.

Line 49946: [23:54:12]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Yes?

Line 49959: [23:54:21]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : We are safe.

Line 49960: [23:54:22]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : You left Sunny in Science.

Line 49964: [23:54:26]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Did we?

Line 49968: [23:54:30]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : We will rescue then.

Line 49983: [23:54:37]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Sunny what is the door label around you say?

Line 50016: [23:55:01]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Smash

Line 50045: [23:55:21]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Science has an internal security department that will clear departures.

Line 50050: [23:55:23]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Good luck.

Line 50149: [23:56:42]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : say What.

Line 50151: [23:56:44]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Are you doing.

Line 50159: [23:56:52]EMOTE: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing creaks.

Line 50160: [23:56:52]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Dealing with an idiot.

Line 50169: [23:56:59]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : You do realize, We did not release the plants?

Line 50174: [23:57:04]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : It was the Xenobotanist.

Line 50188: [23:57:12]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : No, Albrrright.

Line 50191: [23:57:14]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Golem

Line 50195: [23:57:16]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Assist us.

Line 50201: [23:57:24]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Albrright.

Line 50202: [23:57:25]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Golem

Line 50206: [23:57:25]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : No.

Line 50209: [23:57:28]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Don't tempt this.

Line 50212: [23:57:29]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Golem

Line 50220: [23:57:37]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : We are being kidnapped security.

Line 50223: [23:57:38]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Help

Line 50231: [23:57:45]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : The miner is kidnapping us at crossbow point.

Line 50241: [23:57:52]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Shut up.

Line 50258: [23:58:02]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : You killed so many good people.

Line 50266: [23:58:07]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Gladly.

Line 50277: [23:58:14]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Pink eyes will face justice.

Line 50291: [23:58:23]SAY: Pink Eyes Jesters Laughing/LordRaven001 : Head of security

Line 50295: [23:58:27]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Too late.

Line 50314: [23:58:37]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Liza?

Line 50335: [23:58:51]EMOTE: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : G'wir Sym'udiad hems,

Line 50350: [23:58:58]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : He's sending you a prrrresent.

Line 50360: [23:59:08]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : You got so many people killed.

Line 50455: [00:00:15]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Eh, nothing.

Line 50551: [00:01:31]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : You'rrre not coming.

Line 50571: [00:01:45]SAY: G'wir Sym'udiad/Hivefleetchicken : Have fun with the vines you unleashed.

 

I cut it after I saw the first nymph log. Anyways, this pretty much shows conversation and attempted conversation during the kidnapping. Also, by cuffing someone and disarming them, that is pretty much how you would kidnap someone.

Any further input on the matter?