EMP Instakilling players needs to be nerfed.

[Nanako]

EMP is supposed to be a weapon, a useful tool in combat. When correctly applied, it should aid victory

Right now though, it's just plain genocide.

EMP Affects four main groups of people:

Cyborgs, who suffer about 25 damage and get stunned for a while. If the enemy puts in the effort to follow up and try to destroy them, then they're probably going to die. But if they have allies nearby, they can survive

IPCs, who suffer 500 trauma damage and die instantly, with no possible hope of survival, escape or rescue. The worst part is, they can't even be rebuilt or revived, at least organics can be cloned.

Vaurca, whose organs are almost entirely synthetic, suffer 60 trauma damage toe ach organ, suffer massive simultaneous organ failure, and die in under two minutes. Even if it happens inside medical, with a well equipped medical department, their hopes of survival are almost nil.

Anyone who has an artificial heart, their heart takes 60 trauma damage, fails instantly, and their hope for survival is very low.

Why did anyone ever think this was okay?

Three of the four types of people who are affected by EMP, will die in a single hit. And yet we have ion rifles and EMP grenades quite readily available.

Killing people in one hit is just cheap, and boring, it's not fun for anyone. it removes any drama there might have been in combat. It makes ganking incredibly easy, which surely is something we don't want.

With almost any other type of weapon, killing someone takes effort. A civilian will usually run when shot at, and their attacker will at least have to chase them down and expend some time if they want to murder them. With EMP weapons, civilians in these categories can just be killed with a simple motion, it requires far too low of an expenditure of effort on the attacker's part.

I sayTone it down a lot, to be more reasonable. The effect that EMP has on cyborgs is pretty good, the damage isn't too high, but the stun makes them very likely to lose in a battle. If they're with other people, they can be rescued, taken to safety, etc.

25 damage and stun to an IPC is a lot more reasonable, if you want to murder them you can put in effort beating them while they're down, and perhaps expend another EMP to keep them down, higher cost in resources.

For artificial organs, lower the damage significantly, enough that the victim has a chance to flee towards medical, and to survive long enough to be treated.

[Guest]

I know the best way to do this.

It should effect IPCs and those with synthetic organs all the same by damaging that specific organ, but damaging synthetic limbs (to a non-IPC) should only factor into the limb damage and not total mob health.

[Loow]

I disagree.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

EMP's are an incredibly situational weapon, removing their immense benefits against synthetic players will regulate the weapon to uselessness. Yes it's incredibly useful against these 4 types of players, but on the other side I'd argue that using it against a vanilla human security officer with a ballistic pistol will just have him laugh and unload his clip into your face.

Rather than punish the ion weapon, why don't we instead turn this around and decide how we can give synthetics buffs to defend against the EMP? EMP protection is something that should be available as a highly advanced module in robotics and an antagonist implant for IPCs. Cyborgs it makes sense that they are built to withstand an EMP blast, because they are robust and they have these countermeasures built in. It does not make sense to let IPC's roll off the factory with EMP shielding (for cost if nothing else) and it's also completely bizarre to say that mechanical organs have EMP shielding.

EMP shielding for organs and IPC's should be done through specialty equipment or items, not by making the EMP useless its the only situations it's worth using.

[Guest]

What I suggested will have zero bearing on synthetic players and it will only affect those with prosthetics.

[Dreamix]

I disagree, too. EMP is situational, leave it as is (except maybe Delta's suggestion, that's fine).

[Nanako]

EMP's are an incredibly situational weapon, removing their immense benefits against synthetic players will regulate the weapon to uselessness.

 

Nobody's suggesting removing their benefits against synthetic players. Just making it not an instant irrevocable kill.

Yes it's incredibly useful against these 4 types of players,

They're useful against cyborgs. They're just plain genocide against others.

but on the other side I'd argue that using it against a vanilla human security officer with a ballistic pistol will just have him laugh and unload his clip into your face.

then you and your buddies can unload your guns into his face, while one of his comrades lies dying on the floor from the EMP grenade you through. IT's a zero-effort kill

 

Rather than punish the ion weapon, why don't we instead turn this around and decide how we can give synthetics buffs to defend against the EMP?

Because 500 damage is just plain absurd. Why buff everything else when dealing with the problem is simpler.

Certainly i'm in favour of EMP resistance

 

EMP protection is something that should be available as a highly advanced module in robotics and an antagonist implant for IPCs. Cyborgs it makes sense that they are built to withstand an EMP blast, because they are robust and they have these countermeasures built in. It does not make sense to let IPC's roll off the factory with EMP shielding (for cost if nothing else) and it's also completely bizarre to say that mechanical organs have EMP shielding.

Nothing i'm saying implies shielding. I'm simply saying that an EMP shouldn't be so powerful as to completely destroy these things instantly. At least, not unless you're making a complex high-powered EMP bomb.

 

EMP shielding for organs and IPC's should be done through specialty equipment or items, not by making the EMP useless its the only situations it's worth using.

 

Never did i suggest making it useless.

Having EMP deal 50 damage to IPCs, and stun them for 5-10 seconds would be useful, very useful.

When a synthetic heart is EMPed, have it deal 10-20 damage to the heart, and knock the victim down for a while. Organ damage gets worse over time, and it will lower their health due to the suffocation, making them easier to take down with other weapons.

Quite often i see IPCs murdered by a random grenade, or killed offhand by a wizard

The point is, nothing as easy as EMPing should be allowed to be a 1-hit kill. That goes beyond combat utility and into just plain murderboning territory. You can kill IPCs several rooms over by accident with an EMP. it's absurd.

[Nanako]

EMP's are an incredibly situational weapon,

Also, i have to contest this.

EMPs shut down, or are otherwise effective against:

Headsets

Energy weapons

stun batons

force gloves

tasers

flashes

HUDs

hardsuits

exosuits

pAIs

cyborgs

IPCs

AIs

Artificial organs

prosthetic limbs

computer consoles

cameras

fire alarms

APCs

Lights

And that's off the top of my head. EMPs are NOT situational. They are globally effective against the majority of things in the game. There are very few situations where using an EMP won't yield a tactical advantage

Fully biological officers in normal armour using ballistic weapons won't be affected too badly. Thats about all they don't affect. But even then those officers are getting their headsets and batons turned off. So anyone using EMP can severely limit the tactical options of even the most prepared enemy. And i think you're underestimating how many people have prosthetics.

I'm not even advocating changing most of that. I just don't want them instantly taking people out of the round with zero effort, RP, or time involved.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Yes, they shut down all those things. But if I'm playing a regular vanilla character with no mechanical parts and I have a ballistic pistol/a knife then I can still maul the shit out of you.

[Nanako]

Yes, they shut down all those things. But if I'm playing a regular vanilla character with no mechanical parts and I have a ballistic pistol/a knife then I can still maul the shit out of you.

 

If i have access to EMP, why would i not have those things too.

I've either raided the armoury, and have my own guns to shoot you with after EMPing you.

Or i'm a heister, see above

Or i'm a traitor chemist who's made EMP grenades. In which case i've probably also made polyacid grenades or all kinds of chemical weapons.

Your knife versus my autoinjector of potassium chlorophoride, i'd bet on that fight any day.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why should IPC's all across the board be given EMP shielding to protect them from their only major weakness by virtue of spawning in, in place of making it something they gain as an antagonist or through an upgraded robotics?

[Nanako]

Why should IPC's all across the board be given EMP shielding to protect them from their only major weakness by virtue of spawning in, in place of making it something they gain as an antagonist or through an upgraded robotics?

 

Why shouldn't bullets to the head instantly kill organic beings? Why should organics be given resistance to bullets in the brain by virtue of spawning in?

Instantly killing players is cheap and denies RP.

Using 'shielding' is a matter of semantics, i'm not saying shielding, that's your word to try to make my argument seem unreasonable, i'm saying reducing the effect of EMPs as a baseline. to a point where they're crippling, instead of instakill. I'm definitely not saying take away their weakness. Being heavily damaged, radio-muted and stunned by EMP would still make it a serious weakness.

Nothing is preventing the addition of EMP shielding mechanics on top of that, to reduce the damage or stun level. in much the same way as humans can put on armour to protect from bullets, even though they're not instantly killed by bullets without it.

[Carver]

An EMP is not a tool to kill, it is a tool to disable Security's big three threats. Stuns, cameras, cyborgs. It's sole purpose is to give antagonists, who are primarily ballistic-based, an advantage against the rather tech-heavy station by stripping them of their weapons. It only went from a tool of disarming to a tool of killing when robolimbs were added, and then when they removed the explosive factor (Unless you specifically use a method to reenable it), it went back to being non-lethal.

I am of the opinion it still shouldn't kill, but instead should stun synthetics. Have it drop IPCs helplessly to the ground for thirty straight seconds, have it paralyze people with synthetic organs or even put them in a coma in certain cases, no matter what it still shouldn't do /lethal/ damage to either of these things. Then it simply becomes an effortless method to kill.

[Kaed]

I am honestly of the mind that IPCs struggle enough to stay alive in this code without being hit with an instant-kill, wide range weapon that goes through walls and most of the time kills them entirely by accident. I can think of two situations where IPC raiders were destroyed by a newbie accidentally setting off a grenade in the skipjack. I have also been bwoinked on another server because I used an EMP rune as a cultist and two IPCs were talking on the other side of a wall, unseen by me. They were killed instantly and very upset.

EMP grenades are just too massively destructive against most synthetics. Even an AI, which should be all rights probably have EMP shielding, is absolutely demolished by them, because they knock out all their power and they robo-suffocate to death, unable to fight back because grenades and wizard EMPs hit their core when people hug the side walls and set them off, or send them in by telescience.

There is just no equivalent object to use against organic life on server, and for good reason. If there was a bomb or grenade you could set off that would kill every non-synthetic player on the screen, even the ones you can't see because they're on the other side of a wall, that would be nerfed.

My knowledge of mob code affecting IPCs is that the problem is EMP attacks damage every single one of their body sections, which causes a massive amount of damage total, resulting in instant death. I've been on a server where they curtailed this, and most IPCs would die after TWO EMP blasts, which is moderately more reasonable and easier to escape and heal from.

I think grenade EMPs also need to be cut down a lot. The explosion is just too big. Half the size, or something.

[Guest]

The issue with IPCs is a racial balance issue and not an issue with EMP itself. It's indisputable that IPCs suck ass in the current code, especially since they cannot be reconstructed in any manner. It is not so much with them instantly gibbing to EMP but an issue with that death becomes ultimately permanent so every mistake ends up mattering a lot in the general focus of one player's gameplay.

IPCs suck ass as a result of the code reversion, as I would like to call it from now on.

[NebulaFlare]

If I may suggest an alternative:

EMPs are instakill for IPCs as it stand. However, these EMP blasts are often 'scattered' and it's very possible to miss damage entirely, by the pure luck of RNG.

Instead of having this unreliable kill/not kill probability (because the minute there's flashy sparkles the logical response is to run the heck away as fast as possible, and one might just run into a flashy sparkle) can we have EMP scale off damage from the point of origin? At the very center tile of the blast, is an instakill. But further away you end up with things like blown off limbs. At the very edge of the blast, an IPC gets insta-stun for a very long duration.

[Kaed]

If I may suggest an alternative:

EMPs are instakill for IPCs as it stand. However, these EMP blasts are often 'scattered' and it's very possible to miss damage entirely, by the pure luck of RNG.

Instead of having this unreliable kill/not kill probability (because the minute there's flashy sparkles the logical response is to run the heck away as fast as possible, and one might just run into a flashy sparkle) can we have EMP scale off damage from the point of origin? At the very center tile of the blast, is an instakill. But further away you end up with things like blown off limbs. At the very edge of the blast, an IPC gets insta-stun for a very long duration.

 

Uhm.

I don't think that's how it works. The sparkles show up on only some tiles, but the actual effect covers the entire area, and you don't 'walk into' them, the effect is immediate and the animation of the sparkles just takes a second to expire.

[Nanako]

can we have EMP scale off damage from the point of origin?

 

This is actually how it already works, but it doesn't scale much. Emp blasts only have a heavy range and a light range. Anything farther away from the centre is only hit by the light blast, which has half effects

However a full EMP hit damages IPCs for 500. Half of that. 250, is still an instakill because humanoid mobs have 200 health

Making it taper off a lot more would be nice.

[NebulaFlare]

I remember in Aurora code, EMP could just be limbs blowing off (If I'm not remembering wrong).

I want that back D: