[RESOLVED] Staff Complaint-DatBerry

[Bygonehero]

BYOND Key: BygoneHero

Staff BYOND Key: DatBerry

Game ID: bGK9Rf

Reason for complaint: The mod ruined my round, and two other zombie rounds during an event.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks: DatBerry bwoinked me after I dislocated the knees of and arms of two zombies, which didn't even disable them. Made a big fuss about my SKILLSET, which up to his point I didn't even know mattered AT ALL. Ruined any RP I was having with the zombies and then tacked a warning for some reason or another even though I was going to change them. They ruined my round, and other peoples rounds power tripping and I seriously think they should consider how they handle themselves in future reports.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Guest

[Zennerx]

+1

Supar pissed. This mod ruined my round too. I was roleplaying with the person who posted this as a zombie, and kablam. Mod ruins his/her round (dunno what gender) and in turn, he/she dosnt roleplay with me anymore. I get super pissed and my round is ruined. End.

[Shadow]

If you can't provide any evidence or anything else useful and are just here to tell us you are pissed, don't post on this thread. Ill look into this later and search the logs.

[DatBerry]

since my time is short, ill make this quick.

You were manhandling the zombie as a virologist IPC, when i wanted to check if you had the skill to do so i found out you had set every option possible to experienced,

i asked you to fix your skillset and to why your character knows how to dislocate limbs, you answered the question about limb dislocation with a reasonable answer (being a doctor and all) so it was not included in your warning.

the part about your skills, your only answers were "everyone does it" "didn't think it matters" if my memory doesn't fail me, "You're disillusioning yourself if you think this is a HRP server, this is a medium at best"

your attitude lead me to believe 'just a talking to' wouldn't be enough, so a warning was issued, you decided to keep on dragging on forever about it and wasted your whole round.

the last part is your fault, and your fault only.

[Bygonehero]

since my time is short, ill make this quick.

You were manhandling the zombie as a virologist IPC, when i wanted to check if you had the skill to do so i found out you had set every option possible to experienced,

i asked you to fix your skillset and to why your character knows how to dislocate limbs, you answered the question about limb dislocation with a reasonable answer (being a doctor and all) so it was not included in your warning.

the part about your skills, your only answers were "everyone does it" "didn't think it matters" if my memory doesn't fail me, "You're disillusioning yourself if you think this is a HRP server, this is a medium at best"

your attitude lead me to believe 'just a talking to' wouldn't be enough, so a warning was issued, you decided to keep on dragging on forever about it and wasted your whole round.

the last part is your fault, and your fault only.

 

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=3637

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6340&start=50

Considering your argument, I believe the linked threads help. Why am I wrong for assuming being a robot lets you know more than the average joe or that this server isn't a HRP server? Considering robots, there's nothing anyone's said to say otherwise, and the logic is sound too with them downloading information. As for my 'attitude', someone freaking out over something you didn't even know matters, and shooting down your reasonable explanation is a hostile attitude, one that a moderator should not have. More so when the person has literally no idea what you were talking about at first.

[Bygonehero]

Bumping for viewing? This issue really bothers me. I've had round after round on this server, one that is suppose to be a High-RP server with regulars showing pisspour examples of it. This isn't a high RP server.

[Guest]

Have you considered communicating with the aforementioned moderator in regards to the incident and try to come to a resolution with them?

If you haven't, you absolutely should. If they won't give you the time of day then you can use that unwillingness to cooperate to urge a higher up to resolve this.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

IPC's are expected to follow the same rules on experience and skillsets as every other race. Only the Skrell are allowed to have broad sets of 'experienced' level experience in their skillset. Even with skrell the rule of thumb is to lower your combat ability with every new department you make your skrell an expert in.

[Tainavaa]

Alright, I've gone through the thread and bit of the threads that BygoneHero's linked. I'd like to make a few points here.

 

• The mod set to handle this ahelp set out to do their job - an ahelp was made, decided to handle it, saw another issue while investigating, and decided to handle that also.
• Your perception on HRP/MRP/LRP is yours alone, and a thread from the member of the community explaining their points of view on the subject does not make it objectively so. If you decide to agree with them, that is your prerogative. We can not make you think otherwise.
  
• A community-member-made thread on what IPC's are and are not capable of also do not count as precedent. Unless there is an official statement stating that your IPC can know literally everything, again, a community-member-made thread holds absolutely no precedence.
  
  • On top of that, there are points made AGAINST knowing everything, that very thread countering your own arguments.

 

With that out of the way, I witnessed what happened that round. Knowing more than the average joe might be reasonable for an IPC - however, that does not give them excuse to know everything you'd need to know on the station to do whatever you want. We've made points against this in the past for others who tried to do the same, stating that yes your character CAN hop from job to job - but not on the fly. Your IPC can download databases and information regarding other professional fields? That's a great concept and one I encourage as it separates man from machine but there are some things it doesn't seem you're taking into consideration regarding this concept.

1) How long does it take to download this information?

2) How much space does this vast amount of information take up?

3) How much available space does your IPC have to storage information?

4) How does your IPC balance what information to keep and to get rid of to maintain this integrity? And in fact, what information does your IPC decide to keep and get rid of to make space?

Mind you, these aren't questions with definite answers. As someone suggested in the thread you linked, there is a balance with this special rule. You aren't as limited as humans but you aren't unlimited as well. This is something that DatBerry brought up with you, and reminded you of. He brought up information you may not have known to prevent further trouble in the future, and you had a decision to make - you opted to use your RP time to speak to the mod rather than carry on. You can not blame the mod for taking up your time, the only reason the discussion has carried on was because you decided to carry it on.

I want to know, given this new information: this is an opportunity to elaborate a bit more in case I'm misunderstanding or alter your wording to fit the new informationr so it's easier for me to understand. What is it that DatBerry did wrong?

[Dreamix]

Your IPC can download databases and information regarding other professional fields? That's a great concept and one I encourage as it separates man from machine but there are some things it doesn't seem you're taking into consideration regarding this concept.

1) How long does it take to download this information?

2) How much space does this vast amount of information take up?

3) How much available space does your IPC have to storage information?

4) How does your IPC balance what information to keep and to get rid of to maintain this integrity? And in fact, what information does your IPC decide to keep and get rid of to make space?

The IPC's aboard the Aurora lack both a binary modem and a law computer. That's a requirement for building them mechanically on this server. This means that they cannot be remotely accessed. They're like a computer with no network connection.

If your character were an omni-competent super-ninja, why would they have the job that they have, and not be out leading special operations squads for NT or taking over the galaxy?

I like my quotes. Just saying.

[Bygonehero]

Your IPC can download databases and information regarding other professional fields? That's a great concept and one I encourage as it separates man from machine but there are some things it doesn't seem you're taking into consideration regarding this concept.

1) How long does it take to download this information?

2) How much space does this vast amount of information take up?

3) How much available space does your IPC have to storage information?

4) How does your IPC balance what information to keep and to get rid of to maintain this integrity? And in fact, what information does your IPC decide to keep and get rid of to make space?

The IPC's aboard the Aurora lack both a binary modem and a law computer. That's a requirement for building them mechanically on this server. This means that they cannot be remotely accessed. They're like a computer with no network connection.

If your character were an omni-competent super-ninja, why would they have the job that they have, and not be out leading special operations squads for NT or taking over the galaxy?

I like my quotes. Just saying.

 

What's stopping someone from downloading a IPC into a blank body and then sending them on their merry way to the station to do a specific job? This station needs NURSES so we send NURSEIPC2. NURSEIPC2 returns as the shift ends, gets uploaded. We need SCIENCEIPC2, you still use IPC2 but now it's a scientist and not a nurse.

[Bygonehero]

The main complaint I have is that I'm getting warnings for my skillset. Which in that round composed of joint locking the bones of zombies rather than just keep them in a cell doing nothing to them and virology. I have virology, and medical experience. It does not take a genius to pop a bone out of place, so my problem is that the entire basis of DatBerry's complaint is wrong. My actions only increased the enjoyment of other zombies, by their own admission. What we mostly talked about was my skillset. I told him I had a believable reason and he responded aggressively, shooting down my argument without even considering it. The entire conversation segways into whether or not your skillset in character select even matters, which to he responded it does on a High RP server.

This server is not a 'high RP server'. High RP servers don't have central command events where they promise to cyborgify everyone for losing beer, high RP servers don't have insistent memers constantly bleeding their memes into their characters and gameplay. High RP servers don't have manchild arguments in common channel every round. High Rp servers pretend they are at work and while some people do this, it's a very small percentage but worse than the numbers is that this behavior isn't frowned upon, it isn't regulated or controlled in any way. Why you ask? Because it's the normal. Or do they? I don't know because high-rp server means different things for different people, but it's normal to act this way on this server, which isn't a bad thing, but it's also not the lofty standards some people place arbitrarily on other people with literally meaningless statements like "high-rp server."

What all the admins could do for me which would resolve this complaint, is to message me privately on what they think High-RP server means. I would like your unaltered perception, so please do not discuss your answers with the other administrators. I'm trying to prove a point into how meaningless a vague phrase like that is, and how dangerous it is to use such a ambiguous standard to administrate. The responses will be posted in a separate forum post.

[DatBerry]

bla bla [/b]

 

its not really vague as you pretend it is, you were misinformed or had a different opinion, fair enough, i told you the administration's views on it, you respond how the server isnt hrp and yadda yadda, and so a warning was issued to tell you this isn't open to arguing, at least not on adminPM, if you just agreed at the time to change it next round or just stopped arguing when your ontopic points ended it would've been just a note.

but you resorted to the good ol' "he did a bad, why cant i?" If someone breaks the rules, ahelp it, if you want to know what happened you can ahelp again.

And if you could please stop moving the goal posts, it seems you're just arguing for the sake of coming out with one point you were right about, first you were arguing the incident wasn't worth a warning, then you complained about my attitude now you're complaining about HRP standards.

what do you really want? are you just salty? Is there any real issue to focus or? Make up your mind.

[Tainavaa]

DatBerry did not base his judgment about the skillset around you joint-locking zombies. From what I recall he was investigating that at first, saw your skillset, and decided that it was too much. I'm fairly certain he conceded to the point that yes you are perfectly able to joint-lock zombies. But that was something that was put to rest upon a cursory investigation - A god skillset just won't do, it's far too much. Your joint-locking zombies had nothing to do with the warning and in fact isn't even alluded to in the warning you got. You're free to review your warning to cross reference this.

As a reminder, complaint threads do not serve to argue about one's philosophy of perceived playstyles and should remain outside of this thread and even this subforum. Please take it to "Aurora isn't HRP" or literally anywhere else that isn't here because it is not relevant. It does not matter whether this is an HRP server, MRP server, LRP server, or even a NO RP server; if it's decided there are soft skill limits, then there are soft skill limits. Period.

That being said, do you have any logs supplementing the claim that DatBerry was very aggressive toward you? If not, we are able to look into the logs.

[Bygonehero]

bla bla [/b]

 

its not really vague as you pretend it is, you were misinformed or had a different opinion, fair enough, i told you the administration's views on it, you respond how the server isnt hrp and yadda yadda, and so a warning was issued to tell you this isn't open to arguing, at least not on adminPM, if you just agreed at the time to change it next round or just stopped arguing when your ontopic points ended it would've been just a note.

but you resorted to the good ol' "he did a bad, why cant i?" If someone breaks the rules, ahelp it, if you want to know what happened you can ahelp again.

And if you could please stop moving the goal posts, it seems you're just arguing for the sake of coming out with one point you were right about, first you were arguing the incident wasn't worth a warning, then you complained about my attitude now you're complaining about HRP standards.

what do you really want? are you just salty? Is there any real issue to focus or? Make up your mind.

 

Because you based your entire argument against my reasons because of HRP standards, and honestly, with how you acting against my very first post in your ahelp, I seriously doubt you answered that ahelp with an open mind, continuing to demonize me here is really needless. I did not agree with you in your investigations, I did not think you handled yourself very fairly either. I am providing my reasonings calmly and seriously, the least you can do is provide the same respect I give you.

[Bygonehero]

DatBerry did not base his judgment about the skillset around you joint-locking zombies. From what I recall he was investigating that at first, saw your skillset, and decided that it was too much. I'm fairly certain he conceded to the point that yes you are perfectly able to joint-lock zombies. But that was something that was put to rest upon a cursory investigation - A god skillset just won't do, it's far too much. Your joint-locking zombies had nothing to do with the warning and in fact isn't even alluded to in the warning you got. You're free to review your warning to cross reference this.

As a reminder, complaint threads do not serve to argue about one's philosophy of perceived playstyles and should remain outside of this thread and even this subforum. Please take it to "Aurora isn't HRP" or literally anywhere else that isn't here because it is not relevant. It does not matter whether this is an HRP server, MRP server, LRP server, or even a NO RP server; if it's decided there are soft skill limits, then there are soft skill limits. Period.

That being said, do you have any logs supplementing the claim that DatBerry was very aggressive toward you? If not, we are able to look into the logs.

 

I provided the necessary information to obtain the logs in my very first post. I suggest we keep assumptions to a minimum and look at them before jumping to conclusions about someone's reasoning.

[DatBerry]

Because you based your entire argument against my reasons because of HRP standards, and honestly, with how you acting against my very first post in your ahelp, I seriously doubt you answered that ahelp with an open mind, continuing to demonize me here is really needless. I did not agree with you in your investigations, I did not think you handled yourself very fairly either. I am providing my reasonings calmly and seriously, the least you can do is provide the same respect I give you.

 

AdminPMs are used to argue Why your actions fall in the rules, what you did was argue about the rules themselves, and that wasn't the place for that.

And im sorry if you felt i wasn't giving a 5 star customer service, we were having a 70+ player event going and you weren't what i would call calm in admin PMs at the time either and that did not help your issue.

[Tainavaa]

Again, here is not the place to argue about your interpretation of what HRP means. If you have a differing perception of HRP that is your prerogative, and not at anyone's fault.

We'll look over the logs and review the conversation between you two.

[Tainavaa]

We've reviewed the conversation between you two, found HERE.

A few things here.

1) There seemed to be a misunderstanding at two particular points regarding IPC's and skills.

2) DatBerry was not aggressive in any manner, he met force appropriately but did not do or say anything in an attempt to intimidate or deflect.

3) A potential note escalating to a warning is a judgment call, much like an officer either giving a warning or a ticket for some traffic violation - it does not seem this was done in malice, but given the circumstances it looked like a reasonable judgment to serve as a reminder for the future. Note that warnings primarily serve as reminders to the player. They're really only taken into account when making another judgment if it's something consistent over time.r

On IPC's and Skills:

• Yes, there is a limit to how much an IPC can know at any one time.
• Yes, IPC's can 'job-hop' from round to round but on the condition they don't just retain all working knowledge of everything, ever.

 

Overall, it seems DatBerry was being neither rude nor aggressive to you; at worst, putting his foot down when met with opposition that is in the wrong, as is appropriate. Do either of you have anything to add before the thread is closed?

[Tainavaa]

Alright, it's been 24 hours and nothing else has been added. I am considering this complaint resolved with the hopes of better understanding. Thread closed.