Roderick Grey Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 BYOND Key: Roderick Grey Staff BYOND Key: Alberyk Game ID: bmyNSf (Round after) Reason for complaint: Warning appeal. I received a warning from Alberyk for killing an aggressive Changeling with my stun baton alone in the brig section of the escape shuttle at the end of the round. The Changeling managed to break out of the cuffs and the locked and welded locker I had placed him in and started attempted to disarm me over and cuff me, also disarming the flash I attempted to use against him. Due to my panic and me not knowing whether or not Antags were allowed to attack people on the shuttle I reactively killed it in an attempt to protect myself and the other crew on the shuttle from a hostile antag. Alberyk insisted that I deserved a warning as end of shuttle grief had already been mentioned to me weeks before (I don't even remember what this was in reference to.) stating that despite it being self-defense, shuttle combat isn't allowed and two wrongs don't make a right. Obviously his logic is sound, I asked him what I was supposed to do when being attacked by an antag on the shuttle, he said to Ahelp it, I thought it was concluded, a simple confusion with no real harm done, however Alberyk insisted I receive punishment for it. Personally I think a warning for stopping the guy who was shuttle griefing is a little harsh, Alberyk argued that by defending myself I was contributing to it, and it is better to Ahelp, and I agreed, and said I would ahelp if it ever happened again but I would argue stopping the hostile antag from getting out of the room and attacking others is more preventing shuttle grief than contributing to it and isn't really something that should count towards a ban.
Alberyk Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 I received a warning from Alberyk for killing an aggressive Changeling with my stun baton alone in the brig section of the escape shuttle at the end of the round. The Changeling managed to break out of the cuffs and the locked and welded locker I had placed him in and started attempted to disarm me over and cuff me, also disarming the flash I attempted to use against him. Due to my panic and me not knowing whether or not Antags were allowed to attack people on the shuttle I reactively killed it in an attempt to protect myself and the other crew on the shuttle from a hostile antag. The changeling disarmed you twice, as you say stealing your flash which would mean nothing since you were wearing sec HUD. Then, you answered by doing this: And you kept hitting him until the round ended and I was unable to do anything because I was just a mod against 48 players. Alberyk insisted that I deserved a warning as end of shuttle grief had already been mentioned to me weeks before (I don't even remember what this was in reference to.) stating that despite it being self-defense, shuttle combat isn't allowed and two wrongs don't make a right. Obviously his logic is sound, I asked him what I was supposed to do when being attacked by an antag on the shuttle, he said to Ahelp it, I thought it was concluded, a simple confusion with no real harm done, however Alberyk insisted I receive punishment for it. A warning is barely punishment, I did agree with no banning you from end of round grief after wearing your reasons. And someone did speak to you about the same thing around one week ago, also you were warned recently for resorting to killing as a non-atang when the situation was not called for, as well other notes that do show that you have no read the rules as whole/do not fully care to follow them. Personally I think a warning for stopping the guy who was shuttle griefing is a little harsh, Alberyk argued that by defending myself I was contributing to it, and it is better to Ahelp, and I agreed, and said I would ahelp if it ever happened again but I would argue stopping the hostile antag from getting out of the room and attacking others is more preventing shuttle grief than contributing to it and isn't really something that should count towards a ban. The rules are clear: End-round grief is punishable by an automatic 3-day ban. The moment the shuttle docks with the station, all conflict is expected to end in and around the shuttle boarding area. (Escape and adjacent corridor). No conflict is allowed on Central Command, after shuttle arrival. Neither of you were right, so, I did deal with both of you, by warning both players of their actions, and as I said; two wrongs don't make a right in that case.
Roderick Grey Posted August 9, 2016 Author Posted August 9, 2016 The changeling disarmed you twice, as you say stealing your flash which would mean nothing since you were wearing sec HUD. Then, you answered by doing this: I'm fairly confident it was more than twice, as he started disarming me while I was buckled to a chair, I had to unbuckle myself, then he disarmed me further, getting me on the ground and attempting to handcuff me, if you could show the logs displaying the full scenario instead of my reaction to it, it would be a big help. other notes that do show that you have no read the rules as whole/do not fully care to follow them. I'd love to see these notes, because from my perspective it really just seems like you're being bias, I have read the rules, sadly I don't have the perfect retention/interpretation you do, I guess that's why we have moderators. The rules are clear: End-round grief is punishable by an automatic 3-day ban. The moment the shuttle docks with the station, all conflict is expected to end in and around the shuttle boarding area. (Escape and adjacent corridor). No conflict is allowed on Central Command, after shuttle arrival. I find it strange that me defending myself from a hostile antag who attacked, took my flash and tried to cuff me is considered greifing, is literally all combat on the shuttle considered greifing regardless of situation? I understand that no combat is allowed, that's fine, but is all combat considered shuttle griefing?
Garnascus Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Yes, all combat is considered shuttle griefing. Unless its a really weird situation where a whole team of cultists chase a sec team or a militia onto the shuttle then everyone is free to let hell break loose. The rules on that are a bit more clear in our update rules coming soon. Anyway i spoke at lengthy with this player in game, showed them their notes as well. The warning here is going to stick as given your history this was a fairly generous decision.
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