[Resolved] Unban Request for Jetnissan

[Jetniss]

 

I am fully aware than bans 24 hours or under are likely to be ignored, but I want this post to be saved for posterity so that these problems can be accessed and dealt with better in the future.

 

BYOND Key: Jetnissan

Total Ban Length: 1440 Minutes

Banning staff member's Key: notmegatron

Reason of Ban:

"Suiciding in the brig after being put in solitary confinement. When contacted, proceeded to send me links about the detrimental effects of said confinement. Please work on your attitude, and review the rules.."

Reason for Appeal:

I believe my suicide was entirely justified. I would like to address both the IC and OOC aspects of this situation.

OOCly, I'm being jailed for half a round (about an hour) for being in the HoP office as- not the HoP. I was found by the AI, and I wasn't doing anything particularly "villainous" aside from sitting inside there staring at Ian while I dealt with something IRL. AI proceeds to call in security, and I completely comply, give a testimony/alibi, head down to Security, RP with them a bit, and get sentenced to spend that time in the brig after my compliance and alibi. So, it's after 12; I have work in the early AM, this round is pretty much over for me because either someone will break me out (never happens, and I don't have allies as this type of antag), there will be a prison break (in which case security will flash or stun-dick anyone who actually breaks out anyways), or I will be stuck in the brig until the round ends. Essentially wasting time I would be better spent sleeping. I've already committed this much, let's see where else it can go, and get a forceful ejection from the round and generate a little fun in the process, right? So I proceed to go down the "Jail over my dead body" route and start doing what I can to get out of jail, or to just not have to live in jail. I get harm warning, and I guess megatron expected me to instantly change my character and RP something new on the spot, who knows why he'd think that I should do that (and if that's what he really wanted he should've put an end to the character for that round if he didn't want to deal with them), and another security officer put me into solitary. I go ahead and try to break out of this even tighter space, find that there is no way out. Start flipping tables, writing on the paper assigned to me, then finally attempt to beat myself into a concussion and end it again. Unrealistic? I don't think so, especially when done with a stool. Three good hits and a bit of conviction you can do it. Of course, megatron insisted on me not doing that and I have brought up articles exploring the psyche of someone faced with that situation and more, and even cited a more media-friendly source that he might be familiar with '127' hours exploring the capabilities of someone who is essentially a "cornered rat."

Now, furthermore OOCly I've been through some real terrible behavior with security, everything from validhunting in full armor the instant someone mentioned me on the prowlas an antag, to getting hit with shotgun slugs the minute I stepped out of a maintenance tunnel. The worst situation I've been in was a 4AM round where the Head of Security caught me RPing with a security officer who I was not harming at all, who I could have easily killed and they went rambo on me when I RP'd at them. Then, I ran-- because why kill them when there's more RP to be had right? And they turned around and not even 4 minutes later they were fully decked out in double laser/plasma gun, ablative helmet and ablative armor to combat my ninja weapons that I've never even revealed or used-- and instantly started shooting at me. Still with no shots fired by me, they proceeded to chase me down, blow themselves up shooting a fuel tank, and I spent the next 2 hours in that round knocked out, then forced into the medbay, handcuffed to a bed where security was constantly flashing me and spraying me, and I roleplayed through all of it. They roleplayed through a quarter of it at best-- there were moments when I literally waited until their backs were turned and roleplayed something like "quietly jiggles his wrists to mess with the cuffs", and was met with the eyes in the back of their head with this top-down omniscient view of the game world. I got pinned with murder of the HoS, dicked around with, and finally after 2 hours I got debrained, and turned into a cyborg.

I don't like dealing with security of any of the RP that comes with it. The mindset of players in Security for the most part is gross, and is unhealthy for RP-- and there are more rules protecting them from Antagonist needlessly, and very little protecting antagonists from them and this behavior. All I got at the end of that was a few players sympathizing and what felt like a half-assed apology from an admin involved in it.

You know, the type of half-assed idea that "My character has to do all of this shitty stuff" like they've never read a book or watched a TV show before. If every character carried out their duty perfectly and to the letter with all intents to win at every second and had not allowed a single error to occur, half your favorite stories would be done with and turned into a laughable shadow of what they are. Yeah, you catch an antag, you gotta put them through the ropes. But to lock them down forever is ridiculous, and uneccessary. They are supposed to be creating RP, and you're spending an hour making sure they can't RP, and that everyone else can't benefit from what they bring to the table. Half the rounds that go by, people don't even know what kind of round it is because you do that. Yes, you are security, you job is to make the station safe. Your job is not to completely deny antag RP and to spend every waking moment as a sentry keeping watch on these antags like you don't have human needs like bathroom breaks or a desire to drink at the bar or some romantic venture or some shit that takes your eyes off the Antags long enough for the Antags to try and get out and do something other than sit in the brig for the rest of the round. Am I saying you need to hand them the keys? No-- but that would be cool if you did. You just need to leave them alone and let them actually do something. Leave options for them to escape, leave openings for them to make RP, and you will get more out of it in the end I swear it. What have you got to lose? Even if they turned around and killed you, which most of them don't, someone will save you or clone you anyways! And you won't go to jail or lose half your items like the antags do after cloning!

Now, onto the IC of it.

My character just got detained for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Big brother AI caught him, now he's fucked. He complies, he puts up no fight and no protest, and he follows security back to Sec-wing. He sits down for questioning, gets strip-searched after being allowed to enter peacefully, and get's sentenced immediately after he gives his alibi. At first he freaks out, he didn't get a lawyer, any type of trial, he didn't even get to make official statements on record-- and "Shitcurity" is a thing. Security has a chain of command, but they answer to themselves, they can do whatever they want, they're free to abuse any and all power they have available-- and he's watching them do it with his own eyes and stacking the entire deck against him. His response? Death has to be better than being a caged animal who has done nothing to hurt anyone.

He proceeds to try and find ways to take himself out, but security keeps interrupting and locks him in the brig. In the brig, he shouts he's innocent, and he's pleading for someone to hear him-- but they're ignoring him. He feels helpless, cornered, and he feels as though the treatment hes received so far when he's been nothing but compliant is only the tip of the iceberg. So he starts to panic and freak out-- all that stuff he kept under wraps earlier like resisting the urge to fight and run for his own survival are now bubbling to the surface. He starts trying to smash windows, he starts throwing stuff, he does whatever he can to vent and draw attention. He wants out-- and he realizes there isn't a way out, even with the warden coming out to watch him and ask him to stop. So-- he realizes his only way out is the stool in his hands, and in one bout of pure conviction he smashes himself in the head. Now, he can't stop. Or else he's just an idiot who gave himself a headache. He's fucked up his face, he's got a splitting headache, it needs to end. So he keeps going, and security stops it and locks him down. He's free again, and he's conscious, but he realizes the nightmare is real and is still going, and he has nothing to do further harm so he punches himself a couple times, and jesus does it hurt, but before he can even process that pain security is back again.

The one act of agency he has left is so far from his reach that it drives home this depression and psychosis with whatever impaired cognitive function gained from the stool. The doctors work on him, and he dreams of crazy stuff and a detective(irrelevant sleep procs), and when he wakes up, he's chewing on his hand. He eventually chews it enough to free himself from the cuffs and with his inability to free himself from his current hell, he starts fighting security to get away. But they throw him in solitary, where he has even less freedom and... Oh, a stool. He's already beat himself with a stool once, he can do it again. And no one has thought to put a straight-jacket on him. So, he grabs the stool, starts trying to break out-- he can't. He tries to fuck with the AI by tapping on their holopad controls, but it's useless, and he eventually decides to crack himself over the skull. He goes down, he succumbs, because death's sweet release is better than being some slave to security with absolutely no freedom and no human rights.

I believe my character arc is justified both ICly and OOCly. And I believe the ban (and the warning associated with it) to be unjust. When there are no cyanide pills, one must resort to brutal measures.

 

I am fully aware than bans 24 hours or under are likely to be ignored, but I want this post to be saved for posterity so that these problems can be accessed and dealt with better in the future.

[Garnascus]

if you are contesting the actions of a staff member then a staff complaint is more appropriate. I will move this to the proper area. I will nudge the staff member in question to post here.

[Not Megatron]

I banned you because you had been trying various methods to kill yourself before even being fully processed, including trying to hang yourself in the processing room. You gave a story about being in the wrong place at the wrong at the wrong time, which would have been perfectly serviceable if not for the various illegal items you had on you (including the captain's spare, which could not be found in the HoP's office). You were given charges totalling up to 45 minutes, which is not the entire round. Then you tried to kill yourself, upping your sentence to 1:15, I think. The example you gave me, 127 hours, is about a guy who cuts his arm off because it is trapped under a boulder and he would have otherwise died, which was completely, absurdly irrelevant to your plight of being in timeout for, at most, an hour and a half. You're not "locked down forever." Security not giving you the chance to escape is not a valid reason to suicide.

The reason you were not "left alone" like you said is because you, as soon as being allowed into the communal area, started attempting an escape. The fact that no one trusted you enough to be left alone is entirely your own fault.

Being in jail for 1-2 hours is not enough to send a sane, rational human so far over the edge to the point of self mutilation, in any case.

Suicide is against the rules almost 100% of the time, but ghosting once in jail is perfectly allowed.

[Azande]

I was allowed to kill myself as an LI'd HOS because I got unstable after cutting a lings head off.

Suicide is 100% permissable when you have a decent reason for it, of course - Ahelping should occur, but admins almost always say yes and I think I might have the most admin-approved suicides to date tbh.

[Faris]

A rule violation is still a rule violation. You were originally warned for this but still persisted which resulted in the ban. I believe the punishment given by the member of staff is just and fair. In the future ahelp for permission.

I'll keep this up for 24 more hours unless something else is brought to light.

[Jetniss]

I need to address this:

 

You were given charges totalling up to 45 minutes, which is not the entire round.

The round was past the 1 hour mark. Rounds end typically by 2:15. By means of CT votes. It was pretty much the entire round. You can say "maybe we wouldn't have had one" or something like that. But my response to that is simple and grounded in the practical:

Don't feed me bullshit, that was the entire round. And if you want me to sit in a cell for 50 minutes to see if MAYBE, it isn't the entire round. At 1AM or 2AM or whatever time this was. To get maybe another 20-30 minutes of RP tops after having my role that round stripped from me. You're insane and just not being very empathetic.

 

Then you tried to kill yourself, upping your sentence to 1:15, I think.

 

While I have nothing against you personally, or your IC performance in this situation, the staff here tends to be really nitpicky and make points that don't quite matter to invalidate the people they're talking to. So I'm taking a golden opportunity to do the same here.

No, my sentence was never altered.

 

The example you gave me, 127 hours, is about a guy who cuts his arm off because it is trapped under a boulder and he would have otherwise died, which was completely, absurdly irrelevant to your plight of being in timeout for, at most, an hour and a half.

 

I did not compare me being in timeout to 127 hours. I compared the idea of being stuck for eternity and not being able to choose the means of my own death to 127 hours. If I am not in control of my destiny, and I am at the mercy of some cruel unfeeling beast (my cell, or security), then I, alike the main character of 127 hours, can go to places where inflicting pain on myself is a very viable option. That is the connection I made.

 

You're not "locked down forever." Security not giving you the chance to escape is not a valid reason to suicide.

 

The whole "give people a chance to escape" thing I mentioned has nothing to do with my suicide. It is a suggestion I make for a healthier RP environment for antagonists. Not mainly directed at you, but directed at security overall. Many antag rounds I've been chained up entirely and I never do anything lethal as an antagonist. Except for one time as a malfunctioning AI where I got banned for trying to help an engineer get the engine running faster, but my inexperience with the engine and AI got an admin to valid-ban me ASAP.

 

The reason you were not "left alone" like you said is because you, as soon as being allowed into the communal area, started attempting an escape. The fact that no one trusted you enough to be left alone is entirely your own fault.

 

This is true. I banged on glass, and as soon as I saw that there was no way out I immediately started making a mess, flipping tables, and throwing stuff everywhere. I thought this was cool and valid RP of some guy who felt wronged and had no other way to express himself because all the ears that were available to him had tuned him out more or less. This was my favorite moment in that whole scenario.

 

Being in jail for 1-2 hours is not enough to send a sane, rational human so far over the edge to the point of self mutilation, in any case.

Suicide is against the rules almost 100% of the time, but ghosting once in jail is perfectly allowed.

 

I wouldn't call it self mutilation. It's not like I took a knife and started carving my head up. I picked up a stool, and started bludgeoning myself. I could've ghosted I guess? I wasn't quite aware you could ghost without already being dead or near-dying, and I don't like to leave myself behind SSD. Regardless, you had ample access to straitjackets to prevent me from doing whatever it is I was doing, and once I got myself crit enough I succumbed and was out of there. Honestly, at 1-2AM in the morning, in a situation like that, I don't see why you couldn't just let it go in the first place. Kinda just feels like instead of putting in the proper energy to deal with the situation IC, you just wanted to be done with it and tried to slap that ban real quick. I also want to be clear that those last two lines are not an attack on your or your character, I like your characters and respect you. I just really don't agree with that ban.

[Faris]

Could've sworn I replied but it appears I didn't, so apology for that. So the ban reason was in my opinion just as he warned you for it previously. Self harm and suicide is generally a no no, so you should ahelp for permission in the future. Depending on your antagonist type or your involvement with antagonist actions, you may get the go ahead, but more often than not we permit it granted there's a good reason behind it.

However, a clause in this ban is something I don't agree with. I don't believe you presented any form of attitude and were simply defending things your way, so the ban reason will be modified and have that point redacted.

Once more, leaving this open for another 24 hours unless anything relevant is brought up.

[Faris]

24 hours have passed. Locking and archiving.