Drone Station 13

[ben10083]

just some various things to help improve (mostly) drones.

1. Add more places to mail to. (and fix HoP office so you actually get sent there....)

2. Allow drones to pick up and/or place down carpet.

3. Make them slightly more durable.

4. Give Malf AI the ability to change drone laws so the re-sync command in drone console actually means something (when drones they emaged they can't be controlled by console anyways)

5. (not drones but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) Allow Science module equipped cyborgs to have a Rapid Parts Exchange device module or give them a module than can scan what components machines have.

6. Give drones more storage for plastic and MAYBE others

7. Allow roboticists to upgrade cells in drones.

Maybe also have engineering module equipped cyborgs have some of these ideas.

[Synnono]

Please try to edit your original post rather than making follow-ups before someone responds.

I would be wary of implementing point number 4, as doing this would effectively give a malfunctioning AI an infinite number of malicious, tiny engineers with all-access. Since an AI doesn't typically control drones in the first place, why do you want the malf version to have this ability?

Keep in mind that drones are intended to be a low-intensity observer role. They don't need a ton of buffs since they can just respawn ten minutes later without penalty.

[Kaed]

Please try to edit your original post rather than making follow-ups before someone responds.

I would be wary of implementing point number 4, as doing this would effectively give a malfunctioning AI an infinite number of malicious, tiny engineers with all-access. Since an AI doesn't typically control drones in the first place, why do you want the malf version to have this ability?

Keep in mind that drones are intended to be a low-intensity observer role.

 

I would have to disagree there. People who play drones are only slightly more numerous than the people who play borg. Many rounds, you are lucky to even see 1-2 borg the entire round, and most of them tend to go afk or robo-storage. Even in malf rounds. And malf AIs flat out need helpers, they're a struggle to play, with how AI constantly crash and how big the station is now. Keep in mind these 'infinite, malicious, tiny engineers with all access' also have like 5hp and can be instantly killed with a single card swipe from an engineer.

Allowing AI to do something with drones, like hack them to gain some limited directive control over them (but probably not directly command them), would be interesting. You say it's supposed to be an observer role, but there's like, no actual IC reason why they can't be touched by a malfunctioning AI. Just an OOC one, 'traditionally drones are supposed to just dick around because they're like mice borg'. It would give them something to work for, like all the drones get an extra law about fortifying the AI chamber.

[Synnono]

but there's like, no actual IC reason why they can't be touched by a malfunctioning AI. Just an OOC one

 

Yes, and the OOC reason is that these roles are not for players wanting to take an active role in the round. They are for observers with the ability to maintain the station while not disrupting the flow of a round. I don't think we should be making balance changes to MalfAI by allowing one to customize their lawset. MalfAI (and all antag roles) are difficult to play in many situations, but also remember that the point is to create a story, not to win.

If you have no or limited help from cyborgs as an AI, it might mean you need to come up with a plan to effectively manipulate the crew instead, or go down some other avenue of RP that isn't as direct as getting the cyborgs to turn your core into an electrified doom fortress. Drones have a tiny respawn timer and a lot of tools, and as far as I know they don't have slot limits either. I feel like making them an active part of malf/paranoia would skew things too heavily toward mayhem.

[Kaed]

Yes. and the OOC reason is that these roles are not for players wanting to take an active role in the round. They are for observers with the ability to maintain the station while not disrupting the flow of a round. I don't think we should be making balance changes to MalfAI by allowing one to customize their lawset. MalfAI (and all antag roles) are difficult to play in many situations, but also remember that the point is to create a story, not to win.

If you have no or limited help from cyborgs as an AI, it might mean you need to come up with a plan to effectively manipulate the crew instead, or go down some other avenue of RP that isn't as direct as getting the cyborgs to turn your core into an electrified doom fortress. Drones have a tiny respawn timer and a lot of tools, and as far as I know they don't have slot limits either. I feel like making them an active part of malf/paranoia would skew things too heavily toward mayhem.

 

I feel like you have missed a key point here in your haste to rush to tell me antag roles are hard and to deal with it and stop trying to win. Antagonist roles are indeed hard, and it's ideal for you to create a narrative rather than rushing a win, sure. But I'm not talking about limited help from borg making it hard to win, I'm talking about it making it hard to even have an impact on the round. Since newmap, AI players, malf or otherwise, have been plagued with crippling crashing because BYOND can't handle the amount of map space we have now. (@Lohikar has vague plans on the backburner to fix it, but he's a busy man) It is difficult to 'create a story' when you can crash as often as every 30 seconds and spend another minute just loading the map up again because BYOND makes you watch an ad. So setting up plans for your synthetic helpers to work on is the best way for you to actually accomplish something effectively, because a lot of AI rounds is spent reloading the BYOND client.

So, I'm making an appeal here to reconsider your traditional kneejerk response to say 'just arepee' and 'leave drones out of it' for the sake of giving malf AI players a dang break. At least until the crashing issues are worked out. Unless you have a better idea, but this topic is already becoming about malf AI more than drones.

[ben10083]

Unless you have a better idea, but this topic is already becoming about malf AI more than drones.

 

Yeah lets get back on topic, drones are not meant to have a impact on the round, but when emaged they get the same laws a emagged cyborg has and gets a plasma cutter to boot, and if the person uses that correctly he/she has a army of plasma cutter all access doombots that can roam the station, and if drones go rogue due to malf a engineer can just deactivate and destroy the console to prevent respawns.

[Lohikar]

Drones are already pretty strong for what they are, I don't think they need buffs (2, 3, 6, 7).

[ben10083]

Drones are already pretty strong for what they are, I don't think they need buffs (2, 3, 6, 7).

 

I see 2 more as a convenience, since when drones re purpose the vacant office or something they dont have to just leave the carpet in a pile outside.

[Synnono]

The technical issues that are affecting AI play on new map should not be addressed by altering an IC system and OOC role that those AIs did not previously control. They should be addressed with fixes, or with features more directly relevant to what the AI already controls in their own suggestion threads. The former is already planned, like you've mentioned.

Drones do not (or are supposed to not) have the autonomy to accept complex instructions from anyone, AIs included. While it gets a bit iffy when a traitor emags one, an AI would be simply altering their lawset. Even with that, laws like "obey the commands of MURDER.EXE" or "prevent Johnny McHeadOfSecurity from leaving his office" are stretches. They should lack the ability to understand most of what they're being told or identify individuals, and have an almost non-existent capacity to learn or reason it out.

Going back to the other points in the OP:

[mention]ben10083[/mention]:

1. I don't see why not, but how does this affect the drones? They can already walk everywhere.

2. Sure. People already use them to make random luxury versions of existing rooms, why not carpet?

3. They aren't meant to be anything close to other synthetics in terms of resistance to damage, and arguably they should be away from round elements that cause it in the first place. What is your reasoning here?

4. See above

5. The latter option of detecting components might be fine. I wouldn't want a science borg to start with an RPE, as it is a prototype that requires research to engineer and is not in mass production.

6. I don't see a reason for this - drones are not often using plastic, and they are already infinite sources of it by virtue of recharge stations. What is your reasoning here?

7. No strong opinions on this one. Not sure if the mob type is compatible.

[ben10083]

1. I don't see why not, but how does this affect the drones? They can already walk everywhere.

2. Sure. People already use them to make random luxury versions of existing rooms, why not carpet?

3. They aren't meant to be anything close to other synthetics in terms of resistance to damage, and arguably they should be away from round elements that cause it in the first place. What is your reasoning here?

5. The latter option of detecting components might be fine. I wouldn't want a science borg to start with an RPE, as it is a prototype that requires research to engineer and is not in mass production.

6. I don't see a reason for this - drones are not often using plastic, and they are already infinite sources of it by virtue of recharge stations. What is your reasoning here?

7. No strong opinions on this one. Not sure if the mob type is compatible.

 

I see your point in all of these, and for some I just thought of them in the moment. #1: It is true they can walk anywhere, but this can help them get to a spot fast and allow them to repair if they are somewhere on the other side, and the only place you can mail to on surface is sorting office, which makes sense but maybe allow cargo to send crates to security checkpoint, which in turn allows drones to travel there quickly.