[Resolved] Warning Complaint

[sdtwbaj]

BYOND Key: sdtwbaj

Staff BYOND Key: TheDocOct

Game ID: i don't remember

Reason for complaint: During the round, as a Captain I was taken hostage on the Bridge, and they had some clear demands. I had been telling someone to meet those demands, while generally being a good little hostage. A medical borg then started trying to inject me with a poison that would paralyze me, according to him. I stepped back from the injection, and a security borg started trying to flash me and handcuff me. The CMO advanced with her e-sword, and I ended up surrounded by a traitor sec officer, traitor CMO, and two subverted borgs. Given that it looked very much like they were about to brutally murder me, I took the way out that I had available, which was a disposals chute. I went down it, got bwoinked, we talked a bit, and then I got a warning, and I think that warning is a bit unwarranted, especially with the repercussions it can have as far as my whitelist. The warning was because jumping down disposals was effectively suicide, and that I didn't make an attempt to call up Security before I jumped down. As far as contacting Security goes, I was surrounded by four hostiles who were very close to me, I didn't particularly have time to call Security to anything meaningful, as I'd probably get wrecked while typing. He made the argument that no sane person would jump down disposals instead of leveraging themselves as a hostage, but what I don't think he had in mind was that;

- They could easily get their demands without me, just with my ID.

- I'd just been resisting some of their attempts at furthering me as a hostage.

- It didn't exactly look like cooperation would help, since I had been cooperating, and they were still trying to do things like paralyze me.

To me, it was a choice between die without getting much of a word off, and surrendering my equipment to them, or hop into disposals, talk as much as I can on the way down, and bank on surviving out the other side. It was a long shot as far as escapes go, but to myself and my character, it seemed like a better alternative for a person in her position.

Evidence/logs/etc: none

Additional remarks: I can understand Doc's reasoning here, but I think he was missing some crucial context in my decision.

[DrHobo]

Is being disposal'd absolutely lethal? I've survived it before, though that wasn't my choice to go down at the time. When backed into a corner in a situation like that or similar, hopping down the garbage chute seems like it could be the lesser of 2 evils, like Han & Luke escaping the Stormtroopers which also had a trash compactor at the end but if you're lucky (and radio) I'm sure you can escape it.

This is an interesting case for setting my future precedent on disposal safety. Did you survive?

[sdtwbaj]

Is being disposal'd absolutely lethal? I've survived it before, though that wasn't my choice to go down at the time. When backed into a corner in a situation like that or similar, hopping down the garbage chute seems like it could be the lesser of 2 evils, like Han & Luke escaping the Stormtroopers which also had a trash compactor at the end but if you're lucky (and radio) I'm sure you can escape it.

This is an interesting case for setting my future precedent on disposal safety. Did you survive?

 

I almost did, but the AI got to the door before medical and crushed me.

[Coalf]

while generally being a good little hostage. A medical borg then started trying to inject me with a poison that would paralyze me, according to him. I stepped back from the injection, and a security borg started trying to flash me and handcuff me.

The CMO advanced with her e-sword, and I ended up surrounded by a traitor sec officer, traitor CMO, and two subverted borgs. Given that it looked very much like they were about to brutally murder me, I took the way out that I had available, which was a disposals chute.

You thought they were about to murder you, so you decided for the smart option and stuff yourself into a trashcan that functions by pushing trashed using super-pressurized air at the speed of a car down a few hundred feet of steel piping with sharp turns ending at a 20 feet drop into a crusher.

Instead of just stopping and saying "I'll cooperate"

especially with the repercussions it can have as far as my whitelist.

None as of now or in the future, we don't care about an odd accident here or there, that happens (Unless of course it's major to the point of killing half the crew because you literally cannot stop insulting the rescue team.)

What we care about are offences with malicious intent or repeated offenses which show us you haven't learned from your past mistakes or just don't care.

The warning was because jumping down disposals was effectively suicide, and that I didn't make an attempt to call up Security before I jumped down. As far as contacting Security goes, I was surrounded by four hostiles who were very close to me, I didn't particularly have time to call Security to anything meaningful, as I'd probably get wrecked while typing.

This is somewhat dumb, yes, I would have warned you regardless if you called security or not falling down disposals.

He made the argument that no sane person would jump down disposals instead of leveraging themselves as a hostage, but what I don't think he had in mind was that;

- They could easily get their demands without me, just with my ID.

Person A wants item X using person B

Person A can get X without using person B

Person A doesn't know this and thinks they require person B so they need to keep him alive, person B knows they don't need him but can use their stupidity to his advantage.

Thus person B decides to kill himself.

???

- I'd just been resisting some of their attempts at furthering me as a hostage.

- It didn't exactly look like cooperation would help, since I had been cooperating, and they were still trying to do things like paralyze me.

>I was resisting

>I had been cooperating

Pick one.

 

To me, it was a choice between die without getting much of a word off, and surrendering my equipment to them, or hop into disposals, talk as much as I can on the way down, and bank on surviving out the other side. It was a long shot as far as escapes go, but to myself and my character, it seemed like a better alternative for a person in her position.

My choice was to die quickly, cooperate or kill myself in one of the most painful ways.

It's simple, YOU as a player knew you had a bigger chance at surviving and that basically getting rid of their hostage, which was their only ace, you'd efficently checkmate them into getting shot down by security since they lack a hostage, a leverage.

 

Is being disposal'd absolutely lethal? I've survived it before, though that wasn't my choice to go down at the time. When backed into a corner in a situation like that or similar, hopping down the garbage chute seems like it could be the lesser of 2 evils, like Han & Luke escaping the Stormtroopers which also had a trash compactor at the end but if you're lucky (and radio) I'm sure you can escape it.

Trouble is their disposals are a very large tube about the size and width of a generic main hero that leads down a somewhat steep slip&slide.

Our disposals are a tiny box in which you can squat that accelerates you to the point of a speeding car as super-pressurized air forces you through thing, metallic pipes and sharp bends for several hundred feet until you fall 20 feet onto a steel floor into a crusher. (As I said before)

[Doc]

Apologies for the late response, I've been a little delayed by personal life. In my stead Coalf has covered several of the points brought up, so I'll cover what wasn't and also explain my reasoning more.

 

The warning was because jumping down disposals was effectively suicide, and that I didn't make an attempt to call up Security before I jumped down. As far as contacting Security goes, I was surrounded by four hostiles who were very close to me, I didn't particularly have time to call Security to anything meaningful, as I'd probably get wrecked while typing.

 

This isn't what I had intended when I brought that up, although in the warning I can see how it might be interpreted that way easily. The emphasis was not intended to be on the idea that you "should have called security" before jumping down, the issue was that you hadn't really explored any alternatives before jumping down. Security was one example, yes, and perhaps not the best one, but this could have included stopping and cooperating or, earlier in the encounter, attempting to turn on an intercom or station-bounced to broadcast on a channel they did not possess, or communicating something to the HoP that they were allowing you to speak to. Anything other than immediately jumping into disposals after two attempts at non-lethal restraint could have been put in place of calling security.

 

To me, it was a choice between die without getting much of a word off, and surrendering my equipment to them, or hop into disposals, talk as much as I can on the way down, and bank on surviving out the other side. It was a long shot as far as escapes go, but to myself and my character, it seemed like a better alternative for a person in her position.

 

To be quite honest, even if we did accept they intended to use lethal force, which we have discussed is questionable, your alternative was disposaling yourself from across the station. Coalf covered this a bit already, but I'd like to get into a little more detail. You would be purposefully cramming yourself into essentially a small crate and releasing it into a pneumatic system that propels you through solid metal piping with enough force to slam you into corners and shatter bone at potentially every turn, not to mention what that would likely do to the parts of you that aren't solid bone. This is from perhaps the furthest possible point on the station from disposals, excepting maybe the surface lobby, resulting in a comparatively very large amount of those collisions, and after this is done, you are shot out a twenty feet drop onto solid metal plating, also covered in garbage.

The idea that this is okay because medical might get to you fast enough is, at worst, powergaming, but in this instance more of a poor process of escalation when compared to the rest of the situation. It's hard to justify that based on some attempts at non-lethal restraint and the possibility of lethal force that, if used at all, would not likely be more than a method to keep you in line. This is especially considering they showed every sign of wanting to keep you alive and zero signs of wanting to execute you, something they stated several times (and again, noting their attempts at non-lethal restraint even up to the moments immediately before the disposaling). Even if you were aware of the ability for them to get the items through other means, they showed no knowledge of those means and certainly no intention of going that route if they did.

[Faris]

I think both Coalf and Doc illustrated good points and even after reviewing the conversation between yourself and Doc and I'm partial to agreeing with Doc on this one.

A good rule of thumb when determining a course of action is putting yourself in your characters shoes. Would you have jumped off a tall building even if you knew you would suffer serious injuries you could consider mortal if left untreated?

So I'm siding with doc on this one. Unless more information is presented in 24 hours, I'm going to lock and archive.

[Faris]

Gave more than 24 hours. Locking and archiving.