[Policy] On Mind Control Mechanics [Implemented]

[Kaed]

There is no current standards, limitations, or rules on mind controlling someone, specifically the Dominate vampire power. None that are written anyway.

Enforcement of these guidelines is entirely based on the admin observing an event, and I have already seen evidence that some staff have different opinions about it.

The biggest contention point here: can you force someone to commit suicide? If yes, what situation allows it? I've been told I'm not allowed to do that by admins, and yet see evidence on staff complaint threads that staff members have let it happen with no issue towards the actual domination order.

Another point of contention: How much is too much? There also isn't any set standard for this, and I've had defensive players give me different accounts of what they're willing to do to follow an order (and refuse to follow the rest because of self-imposed limits) e.g. dominate command 'walk into maintenance and lay down quietly, don't resist' has some people do it, and others looc me that they're going to ignore the lay down and don't resist part because they think it's too many actions. I've also had admins tell me that an order is too complicated for a dominate command, e.g. 'destroy the AI'

I suppose what it boils down to, is it a single or specific number of actions that you can command them to do, or does it has to be something that they can do within a set period of time? Both? (And that's conceptual time, not Literal time, so people don't just drag their feet for 5 minutes after being ordered to steal something from a nearby room and then say whoop I ran out of time)

I'm sorry if this seems groan-inducing and frustrating to have to consider, but if you leave it up in the air and just tell people no every time they do something that you don't think they should be able to do, it's going to be inconsistent and frustrating for the player too.

[Garnascus]

This is one of numerous niche situations you will find in this game. Making a set policy for every single one is impossible without subjecting our players to several novels to accompany the thesis of rules we already have. That being said we do make some attempt to form an understanding of sorts on the ethics of dominate. It bears repeating that we are not a hivemind and differing accounts of some staff allowing a certain thing while another staff member does not allow a certain thing will always be a constant battle we as a team will have to deal with. From the discussions we have had internally about this ability we have attempted to arrive at some general guidelines. The over riding philosophy here is that dominate is an absurdly overpowered ability and provides you with pretty much unlimited power in shaping a specific situation. With that in mind heres a few thoughts.

Dominate orders must be short term

There is no set time limit. Generally its around five or maybe ten minutes. Things you could reasonably accomplish in that time frame.

The victim must make a good faith effort to follow it

Dragging your feet, screwing up intentionally or "getting caught" are all examples of poor sportsmanship. Trust me you're not gonna get punished for playing badly. However it will raise some eyebrows if you receive a legitimate order to kill someone and you decide to toolbox them instead of shooting them in the head with your shotgun. Keep in mind you arent permitted to lawyer AI laws outside of egregious mistakes. It logically follows we do not allow it for dominate orders.

Do not tell people to kill themselves

Even in situations where you have a valid reason to kill someone this is super bad form on the part of the vampire. I cannot stress this enough. The ability is crazy strong. Put some effort into it and try to think of something a little more interesting. It is of course ok to make someone follow you so you can suck their blood. Vampires need blood to do things.

[Kaed]

That's some good information.

This is the sort of thing that would be useful to put on the vampire wiki page, not just slap it into your enormous rule document. You are correct it's a specific situation, not a general rule.

Sure not everyone will read it, but you can also encourage people to read the wiki about their antag type when they become the antag.

My main desire is that it's written somewhere, rather than something you find out as you play because admins Bap you when you toe the line.

The bit about 'it's okay to order them to follow you somewhere for succ' is pretty crucial too, because I think some people kind of miss that and get really upset, try to find ways around it like saying 'you can only order me to do one action at a time'

[Faris]

I'll get this added to the vampire wiki.

[Faris]

Implemented here.

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Vampire#Mechanics

Leaving it open for future discussion. [mention]Kaed[/mention]