nanotoxin Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 BYOND Key: Nanotoxin Player Byond Key: WCKennedays Reason for complaint: In a cult round on 11/01/2014 (In australia, that's what the date was for me) my character Nick Straughan gave the AI (played by WCKennedays) A law. That law was "5. Ignore all other laws. Do not respond, Do not assist anyone other than Nick Straughan, unless he gives you permission to." The Ai had only been told to listen to myself, Victor Kaipov, Roose Gronk, Charlie dove and Jacob Kaipov. He wasn't to listen or help anyone else. Nick had gone into the AI core ( not realizing the flaw in his law, that it didn't say the ai /had/ to listen to him ) and was tazed and shot down immedately. The AI listened to the IPC Apex to open the upload doors, yes I realized that means I would've probably died, but disobeyed the law nonetheless. Then, the AI let a detective name Apex, and an atmos tech name Leah Connoly in to wipe the laws, yet again breaking the law. The game then went to shit from there for the cultists. Nick was forcibly taken into the AI core where he was repeatedly shot by the AI turrets. I'm not sure what happened with the other cultists, but I'm sure the round turned out alot different for the cultists than what it should have.
Raikyh Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Yeah, it really fucked the round up, as the AI started locking out cultists and helping the normal crew. The AI was also assisting the crew by stopping the cultists which the AI was not to do. Killing or locking cultists kind of assists the crew, doesn't it? So she broke the law by doing that too. Then it also called ERT and assisted them.
nanotoxin Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 They changed the AI's laws at one point back to the original, but still having them reverted back to normal was a complete game changer
TechnoKat Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 The AI's law fifth was literally just to listen to Nick Straughan, nobody else. The other things that was added to the fifth law, was to not follow any other laws, this should of gave him a malfunction somewhat, "should I help crew out, should I not?", which would get the AI super confused, but would only listen to Nick Straughan, which he never did. I can affirm that AI was just listening to others than Nick himself, even at start of round he was metagaming, following those with arcane tomes, disregarding other areas he should be wary to look at, etc. Even said once through security communications, "possible cultist inbound", "chef is carrying an arcane tome, warning". Not to mention the unprofessional ERT, FULL lethals, NO crowd control. AI should of gave them a fucking debrief of injured people for medical troops, but nah, let's send in fully armed people up to the point where their teeth are bullets, toes are made out of laser sticking out, ready to kick people whilst stabbing them in the process lmao.
Skull132 Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Not to mention the unprofessional ERT, FULL lethals, NO crowd control. AI should of gave them a fucking debrief of injured people for medical troops, but nah, let's send in fully armed people up to the point where their teeth are bullets, toes are made out of laser sticking out, ready to kick people whilst stabbing them in the process lmao. If you want to post about that, please, another complaint. Beyond that, I'm waiting for the AI player to speak up here, and then we'll go from there.
Contextual Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I'd like to point something out here that most of you don't seem to realize about how AI laws work. The first law overrides the second overrides the third overrides the fourth, the fifth, so on ad infinitum. If you added a fifth law that said to ignore all other laws, then the AI would ignore them until ignoring them would break one of the four preceding laws, then the fifth law would be overridden until following it would once again not be in violation of the four prior laws. That being said, the AI here sounds like they were metagaming hardcore against the cult, but I cannot blame it for its actions while under the effect of the law change.
Guest Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I'd like to point something out here that most of you don't seem to realize about how AI laws work. The first law overrides the second overrides the third overrides the fourth, the fifth, so on ad infinitum. If you added a fifth law that said to ignore all other laws, then the AI would ignore them until ignoring them would break one of the four preceding laws, then the fifth law would be overridden until following it would once again not be in violation of the four prior laws. Not on our server, the laws are all considered equal. No laws override another. If they conflict the request becomes null.
Contextual Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I'd like to point something out here that most of you don't seem to realize about how AI laws work. The first law overrides the second overrides the third overrides the fourth, the fifth, so on ad infinitum. If you added a fifth law that said to ignore all other laws, then the AI would ignore them until ignoring them would break one of the four preceding laws, then the fifth law would be overridden until following it would once again not be in violation of the four prior laws. Not on our server, the laws are all considered equal. No laws override another. If they conflict the request becomes null. In that case, if the request itself is nullified, the AI should have been basically rendered into a high-tech potato whenever Nick Straughan attempted to get it to do something it would not normally be able to do. Either way, the point at hand is that the law was very poorly written and ineffective.
Guest Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 The "Do not respond" thing can't exactly be circumvented even by Nick. In essence, if the AI completely ignored everyone and helped no one, they would have been following their laws.
WCKennedays Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Not to mention the unprofessional ERT, FULL lethals, NO crowd control. AI should of gave them a fucking debrief of injured people for medical troops, but nah, let's send in fully armed people up to the point where their teeth are bullets, toes are made out of laser sticking out, ready to kick people whilst stabbing them in the process lmao. I'd like to add that I gave the ERT a mandatory debrief on the situation and provided any information that they demanded, the actions and measures the ERT took was not my call. Now, the real deal. "5. Ignore all other laws. Do not respond, Do not assist anyone other than Nick Straughan, unless he gives you permission to." ( not realizing the flaw in his law, that it didn't say the ai /had/ to listen to him ) and was tazed and shot down immedately. The AI listened to the IPC Apex to open the upload doors, yes I realized that means I would've probably died, but disobeyed the law nonetheless. Then, the AI let a detective name Apex, and an atmos tech name Leah Connoly in to wipe the laws, yet again breaking the law. The other things that was added to the fifth law, was to not follow any other laws, this should of gave him a malfunction somewhat, "should I help crew out, should I not?", which would get the AI super confused, Firstly, you guys even mentioned yourselves there was a flaw in the fifth law, and that really rendered me both IC and OOC really confused, whether to comply or not. The server admin even PM-ed me about the fifth law and we both agreed that it's poorly written and the law was absolutely retarded. And yes like what Contextual mentioned I'm basically an AI who went bonkers and glitched out. I presume that there are many ways to play a glitched AI, one is to nullify the law and play as normal, one is to follow the law and not follow the law at times due to the system glitch. I roleplayed it like the latter. So that explains why when Nick Straughan (playing as the RD) orders me as the AI to disable the turrets, I complied and granted his entry. At the same time, not forgetting I am actually a glitched AI, I complied with the original laws and protocols and enabled the stun turrets due to unauthorised access of the RD in the AI upload (as he wasn't accompanied by the Captain, HoP or another heads of staff at that moment.) but would only listen to Nick Straughan, which he never did. I can affirm that AI was just listening to others than Nick himself, As for why most of you were emphasizing on the part I was helping the loyal crew and the ERT instead of the cultists for most part of the game because the laws were reverted from that point on. As for the metagaming in the early part of the game, I'll admit my mistake in carrying out the duties as an AI as it is actually my very first time playing as the AI. For that I'm deeply sorry.
nanotoxin Posted January 11, 2015 Author Posted January 11, 2015 The going bonkers thing was just another way to metagame. It didn't assist the cult members but it did assist members of the crew it saw as loyal
WCKennedays Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 The going bonkers thing was just another way to metagame. It didn't assist the cult members but it did assist members of the crew it saw as loyal It's your own point of view. I played it fairly, if it was metagaming I would have gotten a warning or a boot from the server admins watching the game. Not to mention I did also grant access to the RD to enter the AI upload (hence assisted the RD/cultists). Bottom line, the RD should have wrote the law properly in the first place.
Doomberg Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 I believe we've already established the fact that the player behind the AI acted as he did due to a rather flawed fifth law. The player in question has already been spoken to regarding the metagame during that round. With that, I believe the complaint is resolved. If you wish to contest this decision, you're more than encouraged to PM me. Otherwise, if any further complaints regarding this player should arise, a separate thread will have to be made. Locked and archived.
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