Carver

My one, core issue with them in Science and probably one of the biggest reasons this thread isn’t suggesting them back there, is the corporation choice. NT/Zavod/ZH just doesn’t fit as nicely as Heph/Zavod (and potentially NT in the future given the sprites for that exist, lol). Heph is core to Machinists, while Zavod fits decidedly better than Orion (yet by itself not nearly as well as Heph). If you could be a Heph machinist in Science I’d have little issue with them going back there, as both Eng and Sci rather equally need a pop boost (Tho Eng could also benefit from variety in roles).

An addition to the current auto-generators wouldn't be bad, especially as they're presently entirely optional. But like the current auto-gens, I'd want any kind of 'easy use template' to be entirely optional.

I'm going to be rather blunt, if it's changed to be insistently written in one manner I will simply leave my exploitables blank, and I say this as someone who does try to write in potential hooks into exploitables. Are those hooks presently usable by all, not really, but not every character can be readily manipulated by just about anyone.

I would deeply prefer no expectations, the status quo. If people misuse it, then they are the type who will find themselves banned for other reasons as it were. It doesn't need to be restrictive beyond what existing rules we have.

I would be deeply annoyed with a wipe and as it were I quite like the open variety allowed. Even if people do not always put something useful, I appreciate that they put something at all to begin with.

For perhaps the sixth time; Scientists produce bespoke equipment like protoguns, circuitry and similar. As do Machinists with hardsuits and exosuits. Machinists do fix, improve and maintain ship systems: As synthetics (especially the AI) are ship systems and equipment, and exosuits as well. Every role they currently have in Ops came when they were in another department. Ops hasn’t introduced anything new to them, nor are they near ops, nor do they ever need to speak with the OM outside of bounties (which everyone gets faxed anyways). When the AI is having issues they’ll speak with the RD or CE.

I’d be fine with them in science, but as I’ve explained somewhere in the realm of four times now if you care enough to scroll up, no they don’t really fit operations at all compared to engineering. Exosuits are not unique to Operations, and production and delivery of those devices was added an era when the role was in Engineering funnily enough. Oh and I believe the clamp can pick up canisters. I haven’t tested if it can pick up pumps and scrubbers, depending on their age the answer is ‘maybe’ but clamps generally haven’t been touched in a very very long time.

For the first issue - public smoking lounge, perhaps? No idea for the second but spare storage rooms are never a bad thing for both crew and antags.

Mild feedback, I like the rest of it but: Putting telesci somewhere visible makes it thoroughly worthless for research antagonists. Privacy allows for it to be used for gimmicks/theft, doubly if it's even the littlest bit further from central ring hearing range.

With such a change, it would be simple; the upgrading and repair of various machines that fall outside the Engineer's standard fare of the power network, the production of replacement circuit boards, maintaining the hardware portion of the AI. Engineering has two fields. If it should be within the realm of a singular department, then Machinist should go to Research or become an Eng-Sci role if we dare touch upon cross-department roles again. The primary reasons I suggest Engineering over Research involve the Corporations (Heph/Zavod are a better fit than any other department) in tandem with their role dealing with heavy machinery and maintenance. To address this, Operations remains one of the worst departments thematically for Machinist - contested only by Security and Service, of which the only thing it bears over them is the mild convenience of requesting materials in a brown text colour instead of a green one. If we go by what the Machinists produce, they would fit Science (limbs, hardsuits) or Engineering (machine upgrades, synthetics, exosuits) significantly better. Further, the CE would not need to delicately oversee this matter, just as the RD or XO doesn't need to micromanage over half of their respective subordinates (and just as the OM doesn't actually need to even speak to the Machinist once outside of bounties, which are mentioned to every department regardless). What does the CE gain? Further oversight over, precisely as you said, maintenance of the ship's infrastructure in the form of synthetics and exosuits. I can see a mild issue with a CE going 'I specialized in being a Machinist', but that issue would be relatively trivially resolved by making it necessary for CEs to have knowledge of at least one engine (just as the HoS has to be physically capable of making arrests/responding in an emergency, even if they were previously an Investigator or Warden; the CMO has to be capable of medical treatment even if they were previously a Psychiatrist; the XO has to be capable of bridge duties even if they previously worked in Service). What does it marvelously prevent, on the other hand? OMs claiming to have any influence over the AI despite it being wildly out of the boundaries of their department's oversight.

Notably, the circuit printer and protolathe are vestiges of the Machinist being a part of the science department. Machinist going to Engineering would logically put Engineering as 'the department you go to for your machines to be upgraded'. Operations having exosuits is by virtue of the RNG of the warehouse, does Operations having surgical equipment and weaponry in the warehouse also mean that they should have medical and security roles within the department - clearly not, it is merely more warehouse equipment to be delivered somewhere else. Nearly every department on the ship (barring service/civ for obvious reasons) employs hardsuits and can make use of them; Engineering most prominently, followed by Medical (sorry sec the FR hardsuits are more immediately useful), followed by Security and very distantly followed by Science and Mining (the latter of whom will usually be done working by the time they can get a hardsuit). Science has taken a backseat because nobody asks for things to begin with. Yet despite this, their bespoke weapons crafting is fairly reminiscent of the Machinist's bespoke exosuit creation that had it's origins in the Machinist's prior history within other departments. The history of Robotics in SS13 is roughly as follows: It began in medical, it solely built borgs and borged people. It was then in Engineering, and it became capable of building exosuits. It was then in Science (Med-Sci initially) where it began to produce more niche articles such as replacement organs and would help the RD and CE with the AI. Not longer after it was effectively fully moved to Science, it began to produce hardsuits. I'm going to be quite forthright, if someone asks me to perform a duty outside of my distinct role that is explicitly designed for another role (Engines for Engineering, Thrusters for Atmos) I will not do it. Common practice does not always mean good practice, it was once common practice to fully set up department voidsuits and bring them to said departments. It was once common practice for Detectives to perform arrests. It was once common practice for CMOs to do-it-all within Medical. I can go on with further examples if necessary. What would I expect Machinists in Engineering to do that rather suits the department? More than likely; the construction and upgrading of machines/consoles, supplying other Engineers with circuit boards when they need them, maintenance of synthetics and the AI, repairing the odd damaged hardsuit and exosuit. Effectively the things they currently or potentially could do that fall under the realm of power tools, ship equipment and specialist maintenance. Engineering is the department of maintaining ship equipment, and that's the ultimate role of the Machinist. It's production capabilities are holdovers from Science, never from Operations. As a Machinist, I have zero reason to communicate with Operations in any capacity further than what Scientists and Engineers already do: Asking for mats, fulfilling the odd bounty and getting an initial delivery from the warehouse.

Wonderful, then they’d be able to readily assist the CE in similar matters as they used to - instead of the weird current state where an OM can potentially justify being able to help with the AI.

Which they can’t do on code green. If it’s a higher alert, then keeping an eye on disabled crew during an emergency is a more than wise move given they’re highly vulnerable to begin with.

Who in medical, the non-existent Nurses?

1 & 3: Maintenance of equipment (synthetics, hardsuits, exosuits), major use of tools, etc. The only thing tangentially related to Operations is that they build things people use - which curiously, Science does more than Operations does anyways (Ops has a lathe and that's it) and Engineering also does to a degree with similar requirements for materials and tools to do so. We could return them to Science but Engineering felt more thematically appropriate in regard to the corporation options. As for coordination, would they lose ops radio access? Sure. But Science and Engineering both highly value the same materials and don't have ops radio access, so they'd simply go through the same 'ask over common and probably expect deliveries from miners even if you don't ask'. 2: No, but I wouldn't start the engine as an atmos tech. No, but I wouldn't mess with atmospherics as an engineer. Does every Medical role do chemistry when a chemist is missing? Does every Operations role do mining when a miner is missing? Engineering doesn't mean 'I do everything in the department' or we wouldn't have a distinction between atmospherics technicians as there currently is. As for uniforms I would feel more than fine respriting the Orion machinist uniforms to Zavod machinist uniforms. I'd keep the original Orion uniforms sitting around in the code in-case Orion is added to engineering. Though personally I don't really see how Orion makes sense in the role, if only because Orion is the delivery+doordash corp in it's present flavour, whereas Zavodskoi akin to Hephaestus is a major producer of heavy machinery. As an aside, while looking at the uniform sprites I noticed something very funny that would probably be a better potential third Engineering corp than Orion.