Absynth

This is ridiculous, synthetics should have to roleplay just like everyone else; it's a high RP server. Why are they exempt again? Laws? You mean the ones that are so vague that they're meaningless?

Alright, semi-secret. It's not exactly Disney World, where are the tourists coming from?

Visitors should be able to actually act like their backgrounds and history allow them to, I don't see any point to this at all. If people can prove their history or are well known, or it's a brainless job, and there's a need for them on station, then why would a company refuse to let them work? That's just stupid. If NT is allowing them on the station in the first place (why ARE they here? Are people with no NT affiliation just allowed sightseeing on a top secret research station?) then as a major corporation it only makes sense that they would at least temp hire some of them.

I'm not sure I agree at all about "abusing" science gadgets, as I tend to get all my paperwork and very rarely actually get even warned for anything I do in science. I mean, if an antag doesn't want to get bombed maybe they shouldn't be destroying and breaking into toxins knowing someone in there is currently making bombs. It seems pretty logical to me. I guess my last question is; if Lukas Chapman had of thrown the bomb I gave him and blew up an antag, would he have been punished?

I am pretty sure virus crates actually give you viruses with new antigen codes. I have never been able to get a virus change its antigen code via irradiation, so I begged for viro crates (A lot quicker than irradiation) from cargo to make super-vaccines. Actually no, you can easily radiate a virus to get a new antigen code, as well as radiating for any symptom and to alter the species. A virus crate just gives you 4 random viruses, same as you get in the initial freezer. The only real problem I've found with the current setup is that there's not even close to enough beneficial symptoms, there's basically only one per tier, and they're all pretty trash. In addition, working in the health care industry the symptoms available are really obnoxiously named and should be named more realistic names (I think one is literally called like 'cough effect', really? really?). I'd also like to see being able to add more reagents than just virus food, whatever happened to needing stuff like phoron or unstable mutagen? Lame.

I agree with Nikov, and I don't understand why on a role play server you're even permitted to choose a random character at all. It shouldn't even let you out of chargen unless you've filled out every area properly, including backgrounds and hair.

So are any of these questions going to be answered?

A lot of this info is actually pretty wrong. You can't OD on any of the chemical formation or the hyperzine stim; it tops out at a whopping 5 units in the blood. You can get 4 symptoms with no messages, leading to your disease spreading everywhere without anyone noticing, until suddenly it's Stage 4 Gibbintgons's and body parts are sailing down the halls. Having played Viro a bit I would only say I want to see way, way more symptoms in general. They're easy to manipulate datums and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to add 100 more in a weekend. Viro crates do nothing that you can't get in the lab; they are a waste of time.

Guide sucks, you sucks. Didn't include most robust tip of all Flip a damn table, hide behind it, shoot anyone

Actually I'm even more confused than I was starting out. What line exactly are we talking about? Killing antags? At what point exactly does self defense become bannable? Was this ban because of my past actions in science, or what I currently did? It's hardly fair to bring up things that happened 6 months ago. Personally I felt I was remarkably restrained during PMs given the situation. Can you give me an example of what I said that was bad?

a) I had no idea the antags or security were there. I saw one red hardsuit and blue shots coming at me from a hole in space. That's all. As a long time SS13 player I can confidently say that trying to escape that room in my current state with hostile enemies nearby (and no borg to pull my body out) would have certainly ended in my untimely death. b) Ein is a warrior caste devoted to weapons of war, not actual fighting. It's not a robot; it's an Unbound with its own thoughts and goals just like everyone else. Creating, learning about, and experimenting with weapons is a pretty important and rarely-understood job, and Ein does so with minimal damage to anything (except the toxins test site). Please go read my whitelist approval because that's where the character is from.

In short, yes. This kind of thing has been a recurring issue, hence the actions taken. I have never done this "kind of thing" before. I think I've killed maybe one other antag in the entire time I've played on Aurora. I've died far, far more times as antag. Ein never "went rambo", and immediately fled with help after the second blast. I would say 'having a bomb made and ready and within reach at the perfect time' counts as a pretty good certain opportunity. I mean, what other opportunity would fit more than this one? I had literally nothing else, was already critted, and (from my point of view) there were very dangerous bolts of energy flying my way. I had a bomb on hand which my character, out of probably any on station at the time, was trained to use. I would also argue that blowing up my department and sucking me into space was personal aggression - why else would they specifically target the toxins wing of R&D, right after there was talk over R&D channel about bombs being made? I never went out into maint for instance at any time even after I had a bomb made (gave it to sec), and I was told they were around R&D. I know it sucks to be an an antag and get insta-gibbed. If I had of been maybe 4 tiles south I would have gotten smeared by that first merc bomb. If I had of been 1 tile northeast I would be hit by the ion shot, the bomb would have triggered, my heater exploded and everyone in the area would have been vaporized. I think I picked the best of all possible outcomes here. If I am personally getting bombed and someone is using an ion gun, directed at me or not, then I consider that pretty serious escalation. I would however have not thrown the bomb if I was held up by the merc instead, I would have complied because getting shot would probably mean getting us (and the R&D wing) blown to smithereens.

BYOND Key: Absynth Total Ban Length: perm Banning staff member's Key: SirCatnip Reason of Ban: Blew up an antag with a bomb Reason for Appeal: I play as Ein, a warrior class Vaurca who has no science skills other than crafting weapons. Ein is a very common sight in R&D and the Vaurca holds a pretty serious amount of loyalty to its co-workers; it has been rescued by and has rescued them many times over. Ein very rarely gets to actually use the weapons it makes, rather people are by now pretty familiar with Ein's bomb tests in Toxins. Cue to the round in question, where I am immediately met in the shuttle with full air loss and emergency lights, and the RD immediately demanding over comms that I head to Toxins and begin making bombs, to deal with intruders on board. Since Sec (Lukas Chapman in specific) is there and making the same demands I make my way to sealed R&D through telescience and begin setting up my mixes. I give a first, shitty bomb to Lukas pretty quickly and begin making a second one. Just as the second one is finished and I am about to give it to the RD, I get a warning from Cadmus that the intruders are somewhere in Science maint. I hear decontruction sounds somewhere nearby. As I start to high-tail it out of there with what I have done, the east third of Toxins suddenly explodes, along with most of the gas setup, the APC in the room, and the majority of maint (it ended up being a mercenary bomb planted there). I am sucked out into space along with the bomb in my hand. All my tools are blasted into the room, the lights go out, and presumably, deadly fuel starts leaking out everywhere since there were canisters and such everywhere. Unconscious I am paincritted (I find out later I lost a hand) and blinded. I wake up in space, put on my internals, and immediately there is a red-hardsuited unknown firing an ion gun directly at me, with particularly poor aim since they hit the wall as I lept onto the single tile of floor. I grab the bomb, throw it in the unknown's direction as I'm bleeding out, then quickly PDA and trigger it. I'm of course caught in this blast as well and then rescued miraculously by a fearless Cadmus the janitor borg, and later I discover that I gibbed one of the antags (out of 4) who turned out to be Alberyk. I am immediately PMed by SirCatnip demanding why I was making bombs; I told him the RD and sec told me to, as they did. He kept insisting that I could have done something else except throw the bomb, and has already stated he wasn't actually there to see it (and did not seem to know who even blew the first bomb) but has given no actual examples of what I could have done in a blown-out toxins lab with no power, blast doors down, with no tools except a bomb, which is my character's job to make. SirCatnip seems to think the most logical course of action would be for Ein to suddenly shriek, drop the bomb for the antag to take, and flail at the doors until death. He repeatedly stated that if you want to kill anyone, be security, which I find a little bizarre. Even the rules for escalation don't apply, as I was bombed, then ioned, and I met it with a bomb. In my own department, meaning I did not chase or pursue anyone. That's de-escalation. Permanently banning me from the department I play most (and that 75% of my characters are based in & have friends in) seems frankly a bit outrageous for something like this.

Okay. Whitelisted and approved by people more important than you. Bombed and shot at in my own department with no RP and instant crit Really? I'm pretty sure the people whose lives I saved with an extremely well-timed bomb don't think Ein was a dick. Okay.

Ah, here we go. The real reason you even bother writing any of this. You have some weird, obsessive vendetta against me that started on CM and it followed you here, that's okay. I had a great time coding for CM and I left amicably, none of what I've done there has anything to do with Aurora. I have no idea if you were around back then yourself, but pre-2008 you didn't have to register to play. I also had 3 seperate accounts. Really. Which rule again did I break? The one that says try not to kill antags unless you have to? When I had to? Are you trying to tell me that nobody besides security is ever allowed defending themselves? I mean, it does make sense as to why the server's been 90% sec, 10% civilians for the past few weeks, but the self defense clause is in the rules for a reason and this situation was 100% self defense. It doesn't matter what the weapon was. I took out only a single antag (out of 4?) that was directly shooting at me with ions, at neglible extra damage to the station. However you want to spin it in your head, that's how it happened, and every log will agree with me. Does the fact that at least two of the mercs were moderators have something to do with it? And you're right, I am pissed off. I'm pissed off because Catnip obviously knows my favorite department is Science, so jobbanning me from it is effectively a perma ban, which is what the both of you wanted in the first place, for doing something that is both well within the rules and well within character. Punishing me for it makes those ulterior motives kind of more clear (like the CM hate).

Out of all that, that's all you took away from it? Really? Swoosh, there's the sound of it flying over your head. Run along, I'll wait until an actual admin comes and discusses this properly, such as looking at evidence instead of.. well, just jumping in and arguing like a child about something that doesn't concern you at all. Neither you nor Catnip were there, but both judge like you were without even considering alternatives. Kind of disappointing, but not unexpected. I was day banned because I thought Catnip was trolling me in game about getting punished for this. I said something like 'you have to be trolling me at this point' and Severis suddenly banned me. In the 15 years I've been playing this game, on the most hardcore of RP servers, I would never, ever have thought I'd see the day a scientist was banned for blowing up an antag in self defense. Literally the only time that it's even allowed.

1.) realize it's a video game and any level of frustration would not justify using a bomb as a "problem eraser" button and that I could be banned from the server if I broke rules regarding roleplay engagement regardless of existing circumstances 2.) realize my characters have senses of self-preservation and they also don't take killing people very lightly 3.) realize throwing a bomb at someone is absolutely stupid and serves no purpose in facilitating an escape because the bomb will kill the person throwing it too, and it simply isn't worth the risk Obviously if you've been punished for it, all of these are lies. If you really had a sense of self preservation you would try to deal with the person shooting ion guns at you as a vaurca. The antag is twice as close as the door to the department is, which is also unpowered and sealed off. Yes, and if there's anyone who knows abrasive.. The rules don't direct the way my characters have to behave on a personal level. It doesn't determine that everyone in science must be a coward and everyone in sec must be brave. Learn to role play. It doesn't mean your JOB. Your ROLE is the CHARACTER you are playing. The character's actions and motivations. A job does not have motivations. It's a bunch of tasks you do. It doesn't make you brave or cowardly, it is a series of tasks you perform to make money. It's kind of sad that you need to learn this from me, but since you were punished with it before it's obvious you do, and haven't learned it. A species can determine your behavior. Your past history can determine your behavior. Your current situation can determine your behavior. Your mood can determine your behavior. For example: A warrior class vaurca who specializes in weaponry with a history of being attacked for no reason is blown into space with only a bomb, and an obvious hostile nearby. What behavior do you think is most likely to happen? As such I play out how my character is going to behave in a given situation. A character who was approved through the whitelist process for that job, caste, and department. So there's not actually anything in the rules that says it's forbidden to kill antags. It says it's preferred not to, yes, but not against the rules. IF POSSIBLE, try to flee. Being blown into space, with my department in pieces, no power, and the doors sealed, means it is not possible. I don't know how I can make it any clearer or what my other miracle options even were. You should talk to the player of Lukas Chapman and see what they think about it.

There's nothing in those rules that say I am forbidden from defending myself. This was an extreme case and my character's life was genuinely in danger. Not only that, it made complete sense for the character to do. I did not go hunting anyone, the explosion and attack was at my department. The antag was attacking me while I was in the middle of bomb making. What do you expect is going to happen? Somehow this does not surprise me. Again, for a situation you've admitted you weren't actually involved in, you seem to know a whole lot about how it happened. Ah, right, that's just you jumping in whenever you can, for no reason, just to be a troll. You still haven't countered any of my points. I had literally no other options, making the attack valid. Defend Catnip's ridiculous decision all you want, and grow as increasingly more frothy as you want, but it doesn't mean you're making any actual sense. I am permitted to defend myself as a last-case scenario. I am a bomb maker. As soon as I step on board, I am told to make bombs because we're being attacked. I dutifully get to Toxins and stay there all round. Suddenly I am being bombed in my own department. I get blown into space and critted out of nowhere. I wake up and I see a bomb, and dark ruins around me. I see a red hardsuited individual. There is no air to talk with. Nobody has attempted to RP with me. They immediately begin firing an ion gun. It's a choose your own adventure! TURN TO PAGE 12 TO SOMEHOW JUST GIVE THEM THE BOMB, AND GET BANNED FOR ANTAG HELPING, AND GOING AGAINST RP TURN TO PAGE 24 TO TRY TO HARD-CRIT YOUR WAY TO A NONEXISTENT DOOR, GETTING IONED WITH LIVE BOMBS ON THE FLOOR NEXT TO YOU TURN TO PAGE 37 To JUST FRIGGING PICK UP THE BOMB AND THROW IT AND HOPE FOR A GOD DAMN MIRACLE What would you do, 1138? I can't imagine literally any character I've played with decide not to throw it and just die instead. Still so many other questions unanswered, too. What about the sec officer who had a timer bomb? What about the antags who never RPed with me at all? What about the fact that I was clearly giving my bombs to other people to use, and not using myself, except one that literally slid out the breach with me? I don't know if this is some kind of weird vendetta you have or what, but it's getting old.

Excellent contribution. Why are you stinking up this thread again? You have absolutely nothing to do with it yet you continue to make pointless, useless comments that contribute nothing. Well done. Back on topic, I still haven't heard any alternative actions I could have taken. The rules state that what I did is allowed, as self defense. The fact that it was a bomb and not, say, a laser rifle is completely besides the point. I defended myself with the only weapon available, as the only course of action I had available.

It's okay, let out all the ad-hominem attacks you want. It doesn't detract from the fact that you have no argument. I didn't choose to make the bombs, I was told to by Sec and the RD since the moment I came on the station. The RD specifically told me to make bombs to use them against the antags. Security approved it. If I left a live bomb on the floor and ran for my life and an antag picked it up and used it I would have been penned. Leave it there for it to be ion'd, and it and the rest of RD blows up, would be penned. (neither of these cases were actually possible, since there was no power, tools, and the blast doors were down) Throw it desperately into space and detonate it, get jobbanned. Huh? 1138, you aren't even making points anymore, you're just flailing around to try to distract from whatever it is you're doing here. It's pretty funny that you, of all people, are going on about outrage culture.

Here we go. I was caught in both of them and was already in crit from the first one. You weren't there, and are commenting as if you were. What a surprise. Says the person who wasn't there and didn't see anthing. Bias much? My department was bombed by silent red-hardsuited antags Squawk! Non-sec killed an antag! Squawk! Get out the guns! Sec Clique Only! Do you even read the stuff you come up with? How does any of this make sense? I didn't bomb my workplace, the mercs did. I threw a bomb in the bombed-out hole in maint and blew up the one antag who was there shooting at me. You don't care about that, though. Or little things like facts. I literally woke up from a bomb blast and the antag was shooting at me. Using bombs as weapons (by SCIENTISTS! gasp!) is NOT forbidden by server rules. Therefore there is obviously valid reasons to use them. This is one of them. Is it legal for Sec to use and throw bombs? Thanks for telling me what I obviously did and could have done, backseat RP'er who wasn't there. Please just stop, you are not making any points in your favour.

All I was doing was my job, and a merc blows it up and tries to kill me. Defending myself with the only weapon I had is hardly "shitty". Who was the merc? I'd like to hear their opinion.

I mean, let's see. You are blown up and sliding into space. You wake up and theres a) a bomb, b) a guy shooting blue at you, c) a wrecked and darkened half a toxins lab with no power. Do you: a) somehow run back into burning, blown up, fuel-filled toxins, smash through the sealed doors while being shot at, escape miraculously, and let the antag have the bomb and access to toxins (and get punished for antag helping) b) pick up the bomb, throw it, and wake up later in the hospital. HUH WHAT IS THE MOST LOGICAL CHOICE HERE? WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE?

Logs, vars and witnesses were checked multiple times to confirm that not a single shot was fired at you, the merc was firing at a cyborg and not a single shot contacted with you. Keep in mind it was Ion being fired, thus more reason for a Vaurca to run, instead of charging forward with a bomb. And you cannot say that running away wasn't an option. You weren't part of the conflict until you forced yourself into the conflict, you had plenty of time, and other possible routes, but you didn't. Everything else has already been covered by Serv and other posts in this thread. I'll leave this open for about 24 hours for any further input before closing it. Oh my god, you can't be serious. Why are you ruling in a case about you? I made this request to go over your head with someone who wasn't involved. I wasn't hit by the ion gun, I was shot at while I was in space. The only witnesses were me and the antag and I didn't even see a cyborg there. Oh yeah, and I was already in crit and I had a bomb next to me while being ion gunned. So its either leave it on the floor and try to vaguely run away towards ??? or throw the bomb and hope for the best. How long is it before self defense becomes valid hunting? more than a few seconds? because this whole thing took about 2. My vaurca was approved by whitelist admins and you have no right to decide how I RP my characters. Nobody's had a problem with Ein before now and it would be 100% out of character to panic and flail or whatever it is catnip wants me to do instead of fight back. There was no way out of my department and if there was a way I could have got out I would have used it. You weren't there and you weren't watching, but you're judging me as if you were. How is this fair? I took the only reasonable course of action. You're blaming me for the bad aim and bad choices of an antag who blew up toxins and then faced down a scientist with a bomb, and lost. Jobbanning me for it is petty and makes it seem like you're just fishing for reasons. No shot contacted me, but I was definitely fired at. Don't blame me for poor aim. Again, if you had actual witnesses you would know that instead of logs. Again, you were not there. I was in toxins, surrounded by fuel, which was then blown up by an antag who was breaking in. I wasn't part of the conflict? What? I had plenty of time? Other routes? I was blown up in crit in space with my hand missing before I even knew what had happened. WHAT other options did I have? WHAT option would be better than throwing the bomb? I was near the mix chamber and maint blew up 5 turfs away. The entrance to my department and all of R&D was cut off with blast doors. Pleas,e please tell me what other routes I had. Please tell me how much time I had, when you weren't there and have no combat logs.

Because throwing a bomb that also annihilates everything including its intended target at an antagonist is a sane thing to do. Sure, except someone already blew the RD maint hallway. My bomb did nothing except blow up the red hardsuit shooting directly at me. I was only even there because I was sucked out into the hall. Let's see what's the "sane thing to do". You are a scientist at work making bombs, because the RD/sec told you to. Your workplace is suddenly blown up by unknown hostiles. You have nothing except a bomb on the floor next to you, someone shooting blue bolts at you, a tangled mass of blown up fuel pipes between you and whatever's left of the door. The alternatives are either throw the bomb, which is that character's job, or inexplicably die. How can you honestly say that not throwing it would be the smarter thing to do? The most logical? The most realistic? What would any of your characters do? "fearRP" is frigging nonsense. Learn how to RP. Learn that in character actions = in character consequences. RP is not your in game job. RP is the reasonable actions your character would take. Ein is a warrior caste vaurca thats absolute first instinct would be to throw a bomb that is currently held in hand at a hostile enemy. I don't care if I gibbed some antag who was breaking into my department. I didn't SEARCH for any antags. I was sucked into space and one began shooting at me, so I used what was on hand. The sane thing to do would be to follow my character's RP and behavior, which anyone who knows Ein would know it's explosions. I don't care about the 24 hour ban (it's bull) but a job ban from science is double bull. So who was it that set off the first bomb in maintenance? Was it the antag or Lukas Chapman, who also had one? Ifthe problem is gibbing antags now then you'll want to punish him as well. Oh yeah, and the antag sure as hell didn't try to RP; I got blown out of toxins into space, woke up in crit, and was imediately shot at by the red hardsuited merc. I had no other items or tools except the bomb, which I had just finished and was sucked out into space with me. All my tools were on the floor of toxins.