Skull132

Can you please stop being a cynic? That's my job. Here's my question to you. Let's say that I'm a nuke op team leader, and I follow your guidelines of not attacking the obvious targets. How much can I do to provide roleplay to the station if a member of my team dies to the AI having fun with doors, a few more get gunned down by sec, and I am left alone? What can I do towards my end goal of creating roleplay if my entire team dies, and I follow suit, as ERT gets called? What is the point of antagonists, if they are not allowed to create an actual atmosphere, and fear?

Fallacy in logic. You presume that they do these things to win. Do not presume: assumptions and presumptions are the mother of failure. But let's look at all three targets, and break down what happens if you don't deal with them: AI & Borgs -- The AI is an omnipotent being that can stop you dead in your tracks, if it's good enough. You can hold a person from hacking a door for an eternity, you can constantly report their position, you can kill the nuke ops, even. And the nuke ops don't exactly know if they're even being watched. Borgs get a mostly free pass on pain and fear-RP, as such, can just roll up and stun you. Armed Security -- Once you go loud, you're going to get shot at. If you do not destroy the armoury, or hinder security's capacity to use the equipment there, then you will have a fair firefight on your hands. One of the laws governing any confrontation: never engage in a fair fight, if you can help it. Further, sec has advantages in manpower and by playing on the home field. Both are enormous on SS13, specially in antag v sec encounters, and sustained engagements. From my experience, as a HoS, antagonist, observer, security will win every time you lose initiative of the situation. And it is a heck of a lot easier for them to take it [the initiative] over from you. Cargo -- Similar point to armed security. Albeit, I've not really seen cargo get shebanged, but it is still valid. Now, all three provide the crew with tools to actively kill the nuke operatives. The presence and uninhibited operation of all three targets creates a clear and undeniable tactical threat to the nuclear operatives. Even if the nuke ops wanted to RP, instead of just winning, then the threat they would leave in place would most likely force the round to be very violent, and/or very short. No one will ask the nuke ops if they're up for RP-ing. No security officer will think twice before stepping into the armoury and arming himself with a laser rifle once an armed, hardsuited intruder is located. No AI will stop itself from locking down, electrifying doors to fuck with the nuke ops, or stop itself from reporting their positions. No Captain or Head of Security will lay down their arms and stop their mind from racing for solutions whenever a hostile presence enters their station. And all of this is fine. Fine, as long as we keep both sides armed to the same degree. It is not about winning, it is about surviving for long enough to actually make a difference.

This can be checked! I'll check tomorrow, or Scopes can check it today.

I have two questions. One: what would this solve, that actually reporting cruddy officers and getting them jobbanned doesn't? Two: do you understand the amount of effort and personnel it would take to actually have a functioning application process on this scale? And no, you cannot compare this to the Head of Staff and species whitelisting on this count, as the scale is potentially a lot greater. From personal experience, it takes roughly half a week to a week to properly process an application, with actual active back-and-forth, and a focus on standards. Further more, said standards need to exist, the creation of which will take time. And how do you plan on tackling these issues? Basically, what's your actual gameplan?

As it stands, just connect through the hub. My old favourite's link doesn't work either.

There is nothing specifically wrong with peace antags. At least, not with the idea. And I've seen plenty of great, peaceful antagonists include the entire station in their fanciful scheme. And everyone seemed to enjoy those. The trouble is, and do note that I'll be using a hyperbole to illustrate the point, that every 6 out of 10 peaceful wizards spend half of their two hours on station talking to the Captain/Heads of Staff, and the other half in the brig. Every 9 out of 10 peaceful nuke ops fail, because they do the "Let's go undercover as CC reps!" spiel, and expect it to be refreshing for the other players (guess what, it is not (and it really doesn't work (ever))). And a good deal of peaceful traitors just turn their rounds into storybook mode. A very curious issue that arises with peaceful mantags is the fact that no one really gets to see anything if they fail, where as with a failed aggressive antag, at least folks get a nice boom and a moment of problem solving to go with the flop. But. And here's the caveat, at least for me. People will complain regardless. So instead of focusing on peace antag v mantag, let's look at the actual issue: You need a fucking plan and an idea, and you need to have the capacity to execute it. Seriously, it ain't rocket science. If you've got a solid idea, and are able to execute it, then there's nothing wrong with being aggressive, or peaceful. But when you roll traitor, and spend an hour and a half sitting on your bum, doing very little to nothing, then what your preferred MO is doesn't really matter, now does it? Also. Two notes, kind of oxymoronic but both true: - Antags should not expect Security and Command to make massive recessions in their MO just because you try to be friendly (they never do, just play around them); - Someone should probably also see that as a head of staff, and specially as a captain, they can almost literally do whatever they want. Fuck DOs, fuck the pipsqueak of a Security Officer complaining about you placing trust in a person of interest, instead of having them arrested and cuffed to a bed. Just do your thing, and roll with your gut. Provided you have a good gut. If not, get a good gut. ALSO v2. This is kind of disjointed, but I've had a long day, and this is the best I can do right meow. Weee~

Eeeyup. Danke! I no longer have to do with my silly placeholders. Now I just need to keep debugging surgery code.

You did pick up on my hint, though. Also, a destroyed sprite for both of these would also be nice. EDIT: Fifth update. The organs work. Surgery on IPCs, however, is impossiblé. Which means I'm stuck between the choices of enabling organ surgery for them, ooor by coding a whole new set of surgeries for them. Sod. And surgery works again. Weee~

Update... Uh... Quatra? Idfk anymore. The organs are coded, and currently undergoing testing. Well, all minus a powercell type contraption. The only thing I would have it do, though, is mess with the rate at which they get hungry (the more damaged, the faster they get hungry). Here's the list currently: http://puu.sh/kxjDL/158e9f3f8f.png Sprites are needed for the radiator and the chemical containment. I've also coded it so that whenever the chemicals inside an IPC happen to be acids, you damage the chemical containment. Once the chemical containment is ded, you literally lose the ability to hold chems in you. IPCs can also be flashed. And. I don't know what else there is to do for now. Other than to test, and push if all works out. Also. A shit tonne of debugging before the code can even be compiled: http://puu.sh/kxla8/a380137d42.png Fixed now. All of them were silly mistakes v.v Wee~

What code editor is that? I really like the look of it. Sublime? Atom.io A couple of packages, and you have an environment which can also compile DM code.

Quick update: RL took priority, and I'll be looking at that for a day or two. I should be able to get back to this at the second half of the week, and hopefully done by the end of the week!

No. I was setting the status, not checking for it. *nodnod*

WELP BYOND just ded. And there goes the server connection as well, it seems.

I'm in favour, but to me, half the point of the entire Shell upgrade is to make it a little more difficult to dicern who exactly is human and who isn't (the creeeeeeepy~ factor). My suggestions are to have them spark or something whenever flashed, for example, and add back the metal bob. To those who don't know what the metal bob is: in ye olden days, all IPCs used to have a metal/golden bob on their back. It even overlayed over clothing. Perhaps introducing this back as something that folks get to use for a faster, more visual identification?

I just wanted to reinforce that point, is all.

It's happened before, it'll happen again. We've always had the claws-in-your-gut Tajarans (that is to say, we've always had some Tajarans who are like this), we will probably always keep having. Much like we'll keep having lesbay, and whatever other stereotype you can muster. I really have nothing else to say, beyond: think twice before jerking your knee whenever this topic comes up again.

The update is slightly outdated. Lag has the cut-up sprites, and we found out that the problem was the fact that all of the sprites were centered. This meant that they overlay right on top of eachother. All that was needed was to shift them to their proper locations. If that makes sense. I hope it does.

The thing is. They already have a heart, a central pump or whatever the fully mechanized version of a heart is. I'm kind of inclined to just leave it there. Also, anyone who suggests the heart to be a CPU is silly, because the brain already is their CPU.

Update tres: http://puu.sh/kpenJ/5da8250517.png The brute modifier is gone/reset to 1. The addition of the eyes makes them flashable. I may add a neat little "X seizes up and sparks" deal, just for the shits and giggles. The hacks required for robotic components to act as organs are done, and now it's just a matter of making the organs work. A redundant object per organ class isn't too terribly bad, could have been a whole lot worse. I am still open to new proposals/continuing this discussion, and will probably review the massive fuck-off list at the start of this thread again, once I'm done with these.

Difficult. Very difficult, as a camera is not technically an "organ". And mixing the two classes would most likely produce a bigger headache than is needed. The way I've got it set up right now is that the IPCs have a special subclass of normal eyes called "visual sensors". These can be produced by a mech fab. And now that you remind me, perhaps whether or not a borg chassis becomes a shell can further be modified by swapping out the camera install for the eye install? That way, there is further distinction between producing the two types of machines which, in my book, is a positive.

I am interested in what you have to pitch on that front. However, I advise sticking to the principle of K.I.S.S.: Keep It Simple, Stupid. The way I see it, there's little need to add fluff organs, the function of which only becomes apparent whenever they're damaged or removed. My personal suggestion is to add to the existing brain and heart (whatever the fuck it's called -- it's a heart) a bladder for storing the chemicals, eyes and maybe like a radiator unit? Update uno: It turns out, one reason why IPCs can't be flashed is their lack of an eye organ. So it looks like flash immunity wasn't even intentional, just a byproduct of something being overlooked. More to come. Update deux: Coming up with a neat name for IPC eyes is apparently difficult. Now taking suggestions.

Oke. I was just given permission to go to town on this. There will be no survivors. Nah, okay. Here's my plan for now: Make them flashable, maybe add a neat little sparking, Remove the brute modifier and see how that'll change fates, Start seeing about adding a small organ system to them, I need to figure out what organs exactly, though.

I actually need to test the reaction claim, now. I know that for human mobs, the explosion of potassium and water upon ingestion does not leave the body. I don't think. Maybe it changed. I need to test. FOR SCIENCE!