Jamini

Strawman fallacy. Disregarding. This actually has some basis founded in real life. People who are armed actually do have a tendency to become overconfident and less risk-adverse. Also, to be really honest, if the aliens allowed themselves to be put in such a position they probably acted in a manner that deserved it. Alien mobs are hilariously deadly, especially if they have a competent queen. Terror stems from intent, actions, and activity. Emotes are not the only way to roleplay. That is solely your opinion. Personally, I see a story of intense conflict and ultimate glorious victory for the crew due to the actions of the captain more interesting then the idea of sitting on my thumbs bored to death on the asteroids until the shuttle comes. That is my opinion. Then that bit of lore needs to be changed. http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2700 http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2193 http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=955 http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2678 http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2559 http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2585 This is on the first page of the general forums alone. Throw rocks not ye who live in glass houses. I'm not saying we should force people to act differently. I'm saying as of right now mechanically the danger from malfunctioning AIs and merc teams who decide to go nucler is... far lower than it should be. In part due to how easy it is to avoid a nuke. Evacuating should be nearly as difficult and danger-wrought as facing the antagonist head-on is. It shouldn't be an instant survival-themed "win".

Picking antags leads to claims of favoritism and tends to not work so well in my experience. Take what you will from it. I'd rather we just have a day/weekend/week of extended.

You ... are aware that a major reason that security exists at all is to protect the station from outside threats. Which is why they have an armory at all? (It's not just for show) By your reasoning, we have no real reason to keep our security staff even a fraction as well-armed as they are currently. Also, I can say with full certainty and confidence that the White House, the Pentagon, and UN HQ security forces almost certainly have defense plans in place to handle large-scale bombings and full disaster scenarios much like Nuke. To the point where all three would have military or paramilitary personal there to lay down their lives to protect the higher ups of each facility. See: http://www.secretservice.gov/protection_works.shtml http://www.secretservice.gov/kids_faq.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headquarters_of_the_United_Nations#Security http://www.pfpa.mil/ All of these organizations, all of which are VERY similar to how security in Aurora operate, have people who's job it is to risk their own lives to protect the assets of the company, and the more sensitive crew within. While they are by no means suicidal, they should definitely be trying their damnest to stop their workplace from going up in smoke. Let's not forget that no company in their right mind would keep a Head of the Security who openly left a facility in the hands of a hostile force. Such a person would be fired so fast heads would spin. Hell, I've explicitly went through something very similar with Nasir and one of his previous workplaces, using an investigation into that as justification as to why he was suspended for command. (Ultimately my justification in why he /is/ still in command is that he ... didn't give in. He fought to keep the station intact as long as he could before getting out. And the "investigation" showed that.) Quite frankly, we should be discouraging people from outright giving up without a fight. This is a game. A roleplaying game? Certainly, but roleplay does not give you a free card to simply do whatever you want. Doubly so in command roles. A very explicit part of every head of staff's role is to maintain and protect their workplace. If people need to lose some safe havens to make that happen... then those safe havens need to go away. Besides, lore-wise the strength of the nuke is enough to kill anyone near the station. Unless someone changed it again.

Civilians already have the lowest death rate out of all jobs. Scopes pulled up the numbers on it for the last few months a couple days ago. Security officers are #1, Engineers were #3. Service crew were way down at the bottum. Mind, service crew are also an extreme minority on the station. The bulk of station staff are response crew to begin with. There are three shuttles. It's fairly tricky to deny all three to the crew. Even assuming antagonists want to shut down evacuation plans. Most of them don't give a fuck. They want to "win" or "rp". To date I've only once or twice seen a nuke team actually threaten the outpost. And they got yelled at severely in ooc for it. Sol has and NT have several million potential employees. None of our staff, except scientists, are innately irreplaceable. Doubly so in an emergency situation. The research and facility honestly is more valuable than anything but /perhaps/ the people working on it and maybe the civilian heads of staff. This is almost impossible for me to actually comprehend. I'm certain what you are trying to say here. You are perfectly in your right to want to roleplay that sort of character. That said, you are still playing a game mode intended to pit your character against near-certain death if the antagonist isn't handled in malf and nuke. Evacuation isn't supposed to be easy, and frankly it is. You can tell me to fuck myself all you want, it doesn't change that you have three major points of almost certainly safe escape from a nuclear threat. A fourth if you have access to the teleporter. Plus you can jump into space. This is compared, historically, to a single mining shuttle. You cannot call the shuttle in code Delta. Malf always auto-recalls the shuttle.

So you are arguing that heads of staff have no interest or responsibility to protect NT assets. Alright yeah, I'm done. Please lock this thread.

Why is it a problem when they select flight over fight then if you just explicitly stated that they're designed to be either fight OR flight? I'm... I'm sorry, but it kinda seems like you made a counterpoint to yourself. I'm simply saying that flight is too easy. To the point where the crew always succeed at getting away, cutting down on genuine conflict. You'll note I didn't say that every Z-level would be affected. The sattelite, or jumping off would still be viable ways to escape. However, the asteroid isn't difficutl to reach anymore. Not by a long shot. In fact, it's stupidly easy to escape from the escape wing to the outpost. (Perhaps thirty seconds if the AI isn't actively trying to kill the escapees) The issue isn't that people are running away. It's how easy it is to run away.

QFT no seriously. Stop calling ERT for engineering emergencies when I have a competent team fixing said emergency. It's getting old. That's not what they meant. They meant, 'Stop calling ERT if you clearly do not need the assistance'. That is exactly what I said Delta. At least five times to my memory, I've had a captain or another head call in an ERT for an engineering emergency, only to have the issue fixed with on-station staff before they arrive. This is often over my own objections. People need to save the ERT as a last-minute hail-mary trump card. They aren't the captain's personal soldiers or 911-Engineers-On-Call.

I was not a command member last time I played a malf round. Nor do I always play command. Even when I do, I do not normally play a commander who has any say in handling of staff. According to the wording of code Delta. You can be executed out of hand for disobeying a head of staff. There isn't a tangible threat to the crew anymore from nuclear warheads. people run the hell away and let their workplace go up in smoke. There is no incentive to become involved with the round. How is that in any way remotely ideal?

Privatize please. Though really having them open for debate is still my own personal preference. I don't see the issue with having community members argue and debate. Quite the opposite, it encourages people to speak up and talk about issues that bother them. Regardless of validity of the complaint in question. Having seen the latter, it serves to really incense people to be (seemingly) dismissed.

Then why do we have malf at all? Why do we have nuke? Why do we have both in the secret rotation? The point of these two rounds is to escalate into a life or death situation. It is designed around fight or flight. There is a very explicit reason that the shuttle is not possible to be called in malfunction, and during nuke the original design was a head-to-head war between the station and the ops. Yes, I get we aren't the same as every other server. But discarding the very basic premise of the round when the antagonist is playing the round straight is something that should not be done. It used to be that getting to the outpost alive was an accomplishment. Cargo was, and is, far from the rest of the station. Before the research outpost and the engineering outpost were even a thing, you had to cross the entire damn station to get over there for a chance to escape. Your other alternatives were to jump, or risk the teleporter. Getting out was hard. It was difficult. If the AI wasn't taken down, you almost certainly would die. If you didn't stop the ops, you would probably die. This led to interesting conflict. Forcing you to face mortality and either weather through it, or crumple. Sometimes both. Now? People evacuate here at the drop of a hat. Evacuation is easy, and it's inexpensive. People flee to science, engineering, and cargo instantly. To the point where players have screamed and whined when an op team destroyed the asteroid before bombing the station! The nuke is intended to be game-ender. Do or die for everyone. Yes that even means the fucking chef and bartender (both of whom /do/ have weapons and tools at their disposal). And right now it's a joke. Just run 30 steps to the nearest shuttle and survive. Whoop! nobody gives a flying fuck about their jobs, because their mortality isn't at risk. Currently the tension that is supposed to be present in those situations is simply missing. Something needs to be done.

Given how the rare extended round is during extended, and the events of yesterday prior to suddenlymalf, I highly doubt that everyone would retreat to a semi-secluded corner of the station to borderline ERP. It would be nice, for once, to be able to roleplay without an antagonist or round event bursting in on the scene and hijacking the round. Aurora is a heavy roleplay server. Why can't we act like it is one?

Yes. For the love of god yes. Please.

I never said it was. -He could have tried to organize the people who wanted to resist. -He could have armed up some people and sent them to storm the core -He could have joined in an attempt for a few minutes, then bailed if things were not succeeding. He had a good SIX MINUTES. -He could have done anything at all. Nope nope nope. I think he is the fucking head of fucking security. His job is to identify and handle threats. He doesn't need to break character, even if playing a coward, to fill his function and organize people to resist the threat. Also, AI's are NOT that fucking mysterious. Their abilities are mostly known, and he had personal who /did/ know how to handle it that wanted to go do something. The AI was alone. The station had upwards of thirty crew. Half of them were weapons trained. The Odds were far, far greater than 3:1 in his favor. That is a tactical assessment. 1. He abandoned his post, and his livelihood, without any resistance. It's very likely his character would never, ever work for NT again after losing a station in that manner. 2. It's very likely that he was going to die on the outpost due to the lack of any shuttles, limited air, limited food, limited medical supplies, limited power, and limited communications. 3. He is a member of security. Specifically, the head of security. His role and job are to protect the crew, The Station, and It's assets. He utterly ignored two of those when he had a very real chance to preserve all three. I would not object if he had made any attempt to solve the issue or address the conflict. He didn't. He immediately turned and ran for evacuation. I stand by my statement: Such a character should not be a head of staff.

I'm saying at least half of this thread has no merit. Incident Reports are for IC, canon actions only. If an antagonist is involved directly, you cannot incident report. Player Reports are for poor behavior and improper play. If someone feels another player is doing something that is not right, but not ban worthy, it goes there. If they are wrong in their views then so be it. It is still their right to place a complaint. Ban Requests are for direct rules violations and obvious bans. Of the seven threads you brought up, exactly one of them really doesn't fit the criteria of each of those forums. And that is the one regarding the borg and pAI.

The telecomms sat or simply jumping ship would both be viable GTFO options. This would simply be to stop the constant evacuation of all personnel to the outpost every single malf or nuke round. I'd rather have defusing the nuke give additional time, if anything. But hey, people hate the idea that they should actually be forced into any sort of conflict. Because they might die. gasp!

Minimum requirements for heads of staff are five years with NT in your respective department. He's worked for Nanotrasen for years. No. It isn't. He failed to respond to a threat in accordance to his role, and he permitted a hostile force to take over and subsequently destroy his workplace. This was when there were crew who did indeed want to try and salvage the situation and there were ample resources and time to do so! If he was a normal security officer, I would not complain. He isn't. He's the fucking head of security. If you can't step up to the plate when shit goes down in command, you shouldn't be in command.

An incident report cannot be made due to antagonist action (evacuation), and my complaint is about a player who is utterly and completely failing to fill the role he signed on as. A whitelisted role. In fact, quite honestly I don't see any of the three you brought up that are "incident report worthy" as being so. They are OOC issues brought to the attention of staff. Just because you do not agree that they are complaint worthy does not mean they are not complaint worthy.

My issue is that he failed to respond to a situation in any manner that could be considered appropriate, cutting short the RP of people who did indeed want to try and resist the AI and absolutely failing to act in any way as a head of staff should act in that situation. That is: Organizing and Coordinating the crew to handle the threat. My issue is that he completely, as a role that is expected to organize and coordinate players against the round antagonist, utterly failed to do so. Aliyah Hadyara talks but you cannot hear . You hug Miaze Sinnoh to make him feel better! Omnir Al-Nasser has grabbed Miaze Sinnoh passively! You cannot hear yourself speak! Miaze Sinnoh mrowls, " Why?" Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "Lets do that" Omnir Al-Nasser mrowls, " The AI has murdered the CE" Aliyah Hadyara [Medical] yowls, " Sorry!" Seamus O'Halloran [145.9] asks, "Where is the HoS?" Timothy Bratton [145.9] exclaims, "Lets break into his core and fuck up his wires!" Miaze Sinnoh mrowls, " He is knowing" Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "He chickened out" Omnir Al-Nasser mrowls, " And those orders were to kill it. From central" Omnir Al-Nasser mrowls, " Highest priority" Tony Smith says, "Move go in" Bao Xi [145.9] exclaims, "All aboard the science shuttle!" Seamus O'Halloran [145.9] says, "If we finds him we can stop this" Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "Said "I don't know how to handle faulty AIs" and left" Timothy Bratton [145.9] yells, "We gotta fight!" LOOC: Jamini: It explicitly says to shut the AI down Miaze Sinnoh mrowls, " Now is good time mentione, implant malfunctioned, he cannot beat AI" Seamus O'Halloran [145.9] says, "Goddamnit" Omnir Al-Nasser mrowls, " ...coward." Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "I know I am" Seamus O'Halloran [145.9] says, "Bratton, it wont work, just go ahead and get off the station" Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "No......" ÿSudden acceleration presses you into your chair! Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "Your all just gonna leave.." ÿ!Aliyah Hadyara unbuckled ! Tony Smith [145.9] says, "Yes, through maintanance." ÿ!Miaze Sinnoh unbuckled ! You unbuckle yourself from the chair. Choi Hyun shouts, "DO I HEAR YOU!" ÿ!Bao Xi unbuckled ! Choi Hyun exclaims, "I HAVE FLOODLIGHTS FOR YO!" Aliyah Hadyara knocks on the reinforced window. Choi Hyun says, "HELLLLLLOOOOO" LOOC: Jamini: Nothing but disgust for people who give up Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "Cowards." Choi Hyun HELLLOOOOOO! En'mosy T'nelas [145.9] says, "Yes, live and let leave." Choi Hyun yells, "HELLO!" Timothy Bratton [145.9] says, "Each and every one of ya" Timothy Bratton [145.9] yells, "Chickens and cowards every signle one of you!" Omnir Al-Nasser mrowls, " So we are going to stay here and starve?" Omnir Al-Nasser mrowls, " Is that your grand plan?" Timothy Bratton [145.9] shouts, "Ugh its hopeless if ya all don't join me!" Karina Miller [145.9] says, "Tim, we should leave them" Why is this acceptable in a head of staff? One that is explicitly there to protect the station, it's assets, and the crew. He didn't need to stay and try to shootbang the AI personally, but I do object very strongly to a head abdicating any and all responsibility to coordinate the crew against an external threat. Doubly so when he had at minimum four people (one of whom was an engineer) who were willing to contest the AI.

There were multiple living engineers. One of whom was in the brig. We also had the Ce's body along with all their equipment. Six minutes is a long, long time. Especially if you are actually making the attempt. My issue is not that he gave up, it is that he quit without trying. He made zero attempt at filling his role, instead fleeing with a very weak excuse of a malfunctioning implant. If we are not going to have conflict in game modes that call for them, such as malf and nuke, then we may as well not have those game modes.

He had over six minutes (actually closer to 10, due to how time works in byond), and the AI had no active cyborgs. My stance has always been that the crew should be permitted, able, and encouraged to rally themselves against open antagonits. I have never complained about security powergaming (though I have had complaints against security metagaming and security excess when it comes to the crew, which is an entirely different topic). Regularly giving up as a head is, to me, a strong indication that a player is not a good head of staff player and probably should not be whitelisted. But again. I quit this topic. Lock it. Whatever. It's clear nobody gives a fuck about actually trying. Unless it's a curb-stomp. So just lock this and be done with it.

I do not know you as well as I would like. But you've always been a fair person overall, Dea. I've nothing but respect for you and, ultimately, your decision. Strive to make your last year one of your greatest, and when the time comes meet your end with head held high.

There isn't any other solution. As long as the asteroid remains a viable and easy alternative to escape (which it wasn't. It is only in the last few months that there have been THREE shuttles out there) people will continue to flee at the first sign of conflict rather than try and solve their own problems. It's an active avoidance of RP and conflict which is disgusting and stupid. Whatever. I'm done trying to argue this. I guess I'll just get to be forced to evacuate and never, ever, get to actually participate in the round because of loloutpost every round.

The actions if the antagonist are not in question here. This is an instance of a head of staff who refuses to attempt to mount any sort of resistance and permitting his workplace for years to be destroyed. But whatever. It is clear that nobody cares for actual conflict unless it's a one-sided curbstomp. I'm done. Fuck this noise.

Do you mean automatically? Or as the AI? Automatically, that would be an unfair tell that a round is malfunction. Plus it would be shitty for miners and several others who use the outposts. As the AI... they certainly can. But the crux of my complaint is that as a whole station crew are not making any attempt to stop malfunctioning AI's, at all

My issue is that he made absolutely no attempt, at all, to try and stop the AI. He had 400 seconds at the start of delta to make the attempt with a huge crew manifest of capable crew. The ability to handle the situation was there, and instead of making any attempt he essentially gave up without even trying. He could have tried to organize a resistance from a safer area. He could have made an attempt and then ordered an evac if the breach failed by 120 seconds. There is a league of difference between leading from the front and not making any attempt at all. As head of security and the sole remaining head of staff there is very much a duty involved ICly and OOCly to act against an overt and aggressive antagonist. If you fail to do anything at all in the face of a hostile, you are directly undermining one of the head of security's primary roles. The point. Of delta. In malfunction. Is to pit the crew against the AI. When the AI calls Delta, the crew are obligated to respond. His response in this instance is akin to having nukeops threaten to blow up the station if you don't hand over the keys and complying with said demand when you have a full security manifest and ERT on-site.