Jamini

One, yes (Unity). We eventually removed whitelists for command and security due to the difficulties of keeping command filled. Again, it's a choice Aurora made. I'm not judging if it's a good or bad choice. I'm simply stating whitelists are not completely necessary for a heavy roleplay server. I am not saying the wrong choice was made here. I stated some of the advantages (higher quality players in command. A subsection on the forums for command players to discuss and align their policies) I stated some of the disadvantages(fewer heads overall, some elitism, sometimes the station ends up utterly crippled due to inability to call ERT, code red, or reassign people) I don't say either is better than the other. I'm simply stating it's not a necessity. Please do not blow what I said out of proportion.

Give this woman this whitelist! Why? 1. I have long told Sue, and I firmly believe, that she needs to branch out a bit. Her development into Ana has been long-going and fantastic (No seriously, Ana has developed more than anyone on Aurora (except Drew) could possibly know. She's come a very, very long way as a character and sue has come a very long way as a player.) but ultimately is limiting. If she needs a bit of a push via extra whitelist to play as another character type... so be it. 2. She is a species maintainer herself. Such a position generally means she both knows what she is doing when playing as somthing other than the norm, as well as developing a fantastic story based around her character. She also CLEARLY just displayed this, going well above and beyond on her application. She is serious about this application, moreso than some already IPC whitelisted players. 3. Her concept has many self-limitations already placed in it. Knowing Sue for who she is, she will play this out to the fullest extent that she can. AND TO THE NAYSAYERS 1. Mechanical strength is not a good reason to ever deny an application. Various species should be balanced against one-another by development staff. It is not our place as players (and possibly even as admins!) to deny an application based on the argument that a species is too strong for a player to play it. That is the most asinine, self-centered, petty argument I have ever heard. It's offensive! Seriously offensive! If a species is too strong, then they need to be balanced out for everyone. 2. The primary complaint I field and see fielded against Sue grounded in her somewhat excessive attachment to Ana and Ana-related things. (An attitude that many of us, very much including myself, SHARE. Everyone is too attached to their "main" characters. Anyone who is saying otherwise is lying.) Adding a new character, and seeing her possibly roll with some antagonist roles enabled, would directly contradict that. I want to see this IPC and see what Sue does with it. That is regardless if she plays a wonderdeepful and complex social Robutt, an unfeeling killbot that only hungers for the blood of the innocent/guilty, or something so gimmicky that it makes Haruspex look like a tryhard scrublord. I think many, many people who oppose Sue on this application would be deeply surprised.

It already has this function. Stungloves triple damage you take from electric shocks. No need to add additional backfire downsides. If you use it poorly you already get punished severely.

Yeah, but we're not trying to be Goon here. Whitelists are fine the way they are. They're relatively easy to get, and so long as you don't screw up too badly/repeatedly, you won't have it taken away from you willy-nilly. Since we're a heavy roleplay server, the whitelists are necessary to vet the players and characters allowed to be in those roles. I've seen plenty of high RP servers (three, to memory) that get by just fine without a head of staff whitelist. It's not necessary at all. It's simply a choice, with both advantages and disadvantages.

Ultimately they are not necessary. Other servers get by just fine without a head of staff whitelist, some even quite successfully. That said, they do serve a purpose. Whitelists serve to increase player quality in a specific role at the expense of population. This means the role will be done poorly rarely, but it will also be filled far less. A balancing act that is quite visible some times (The number of rounds I have seen with no command all shift is quite staggering).

Objectiveless antags allow traitors to do just that if they want. They don't need to bomb the station, go on a murder spree, wat have you. There is no need for this.

1. Not on-topic 2. You contradicted yourself. Balance would be all departments equally involved. What you stated is the exact opposite of that. 3. Not just engineers use stungloves.

After chatting a bit with delta over skype, why not try this with batons? Help Intent (Gentle poke) -No stuns at all. It's help intent. Grab intent (take hostage) -Strikes with disarm settings if the target moves. Two instant hits. Disarm intent (takedown) -weaken(1) -stun(1) -Hallos 120 Harm Intent (brutalize) -Force 10 hit -Halloss 60 Disarm is used to get someone on the ground, but they'll be up and fighting fast Grab is best for cuffing, and punishes them if they move. Harm deals most damage, but is least effective for takedowns. Help intent is used for ERP All Halloss and stuns require charge.

The same could be said about rushing into a room full of antags and downing them all with a stun baton Delta. They made detaining people difficult. It worked very well at curbing unneccesary detainment and poor security play. Mind, a 120hallos baton still downs in one hit. It simply takes a second or two where the recipient can react. No, we aren't baystation. I'm simply stating they have done something that worked. They did indeed cut down severely on poor security play, which is the intent of this suggestion. There is no shame in learning from the lessons others learned, or using things that work on other servers. There is no need to be violently opposed to a solution that works, and works well, for other servers. Just because you are not Baystation, does not mean we can't learn from their successes and failures.

The solution is not to make every officer possess the strongest single-handed weapon in the game, an item that can stunlock indefinitely and deals very high damage per-hit for a single-hand melee weapon. The solution would be to make stunbatons deal 80-120 halloss, delaying their weaken and stun procs so that the target can react. (And a simens_coeffecient can take effect for armored individuals.) Again. Bay actually has a solution that works quite well for reducing security complaints and issues. If you want to ignore a solution that works in favor of one that will not. Be my guest. I'm certain the complaints once it happens will be very interesting to read.

It is a solution that was very solidly proven to work elsewhere on cutting down security excess. (In conjunction with to several harsh crackdown waves of security bans) Honestly the RCD is a luxury item. They really don't need the RCD at all. Go ahead and take it away, I wouldn't care. Armor completely blocks attacks a % of the time. Since T-batons weaken on hit (while stun batons on attack, it's likely the attack was not blocked by their armor.

It's still a hilariously massive buff to security weaponry. If you want security to act/behave better, they need their weapons reduced in effectiveness. Not made stronger.

One way to stop security from going SSD when there are no antags to hunt and no crimes happening (which is rare) could be to bring back some away missions in some form. I've often found them a fantastic way to occupy security-minded players in slow round. ...sadly, often when you /have/ away missions, crimes come shortly after the away team leaves...

Uh, telescopic batons weaken on leg hits. This suggestion turns every single attack with a baton into harmbaton spam that doesn't have a limit on charge. Like seriously, this is a terrible idea. /obj/item/weapon/melee/telebaton/attack(mob/target as mob, mob/living/user as mob/*, target_zone*/) if(on) if ((CLUMSY in user.mutations) && prob(50)) user << "\red You club yourself over the head." user.Weaken(3 * force) if(ishuman(user)) var/mob/living/carbon/human/H = user H.apply_damage(2*force, BRUTE, "head") else user.take_organ_damage(2*force) return if(..()) playsound(src.loc, "swing_hit", 50, 1, -1) // var/obj/item/c_hand UNFUCK WHEN YOU HAVE TIME AND KNOWLEDGE // var/hand if(user.zone_sel.selecting == "r_leg" || user.zone_sel.selecting == "l_leg") target.Weaken(10) //nerfed, because yes. /* if(user.zone_sel.selecting == "l_hand" || user.zone_sel.selecting == "l_arm") c_hand = "l_hand" target.u_equip(c_hand) hand = "left hand" user.visible_message("\red [target] screams out in pain and drops what they were holding in their [hand]!")*/ else ..() return else return ..() Telebatons are limited to the HoS and Captain for a very good reason. They are very very powerful.

Really, in my opinion, Techno had no business trying to detain the vox in such a ridiculous manner (consider: if a group of nuke ops were on station and hadn't proven to be outright violent yet, what sort of behavior would an officer ramboing with a stunbaton promote?). This would fall under improper escalation of a fight: you know if you try to arrest a group of antags alone, without as much of a word, you're going to get BTFO. The Vox had already proven to be a serious threat however. Your complaints of a gank are basically unfounded as they had already raided the station twice and taken multiple high-risk items. Items that Kaipov was tasked, along with the rest of his squad (who got spacelost) to recover. Kaipov, being overconfident, felt he could take on two of the Vox. He checked in and got permission before doing so. He gave the Vox time to act and did several actions before doing so. He lost because he went in alone in a stupid manner. This is in-line with how his character has historically acted (overconfident in his abilities and occasionally a poor assessment of the risks) and ultimately he paid the price for his actions. (As he did not account for two additional Vox and their human sympathizer.) I believe this quote applies here.

Making EFTPOS machines not Satan to use would be a huge step in the right direction. Seriously. Those things are hellish to manage.

He totally did. You are my new favorite person.

Halloss isn't fun. Zapping someone down with a massive one-shot charge is. I've done the latter on Unity, it's amazingly fun. Especially with good flavor text for the attack. It also forces glove users to be more careful in how they approach a conflict. In addition, it firmly places stungloves into the "dangerous weapon contraband" territory.

That's noteworthy for me. It should probably be bugreported and abused until fixed. I don't mind mineral doors in the middle of the RnD lab. You can, after all, freely modify it. That said, twice to my memory you've done it in the main hall and research hall respectively. In one instance I even had to chase Lilac around a bit to get her to pay attention long enough to take the doors down. (which you did, and then you did go to the brig as requested. For which I do thank you) Overall I'd personally be happy with a few weeks of seeing you with your "Serious face" on. While I have no direct say in applications, it would make me much more inclined to support you if I saw you play a little more seriously with the characters you want to be a head of staff. (Also, seriously. How the hell did you lose your chest? How?)

What Kaipov did was still outright very poor play as a member of security. You do not walk alone into a den of antags and start stunspamming the lot out of the blue. Right? There was only a single baton hit on harm. (They throw up multiple logs.) That was after the Vox had already threatened him with a lethal weapon. He also did get clearance before going in. (Though I was /not/ aware he was alone and that the ship had all the vox there. I was under the impression he had found the ship abandoned.) I'm actually curious about this part: It very much looks like he tried to negotiate. Are you certain a spear didn't get fired near him (perhaps as a warning shot) and miss? It doesn't strike me as an outright gank. Both Vox had plenty of time to talk, and Kaipov himself had talked and acted before acting offensively.

She picked that laugh up from me. Specifically Nasir. I honestly have to oppose this application. Many of Sleepy's characters, and especially Lilac, routinely engage in borderline griefy behavior. To the point where she was not long ago stripped of her Tajaran whitelist. To memory, I have seen Lilac do the following as a scientist: 1. Break and enter botany to test a floral somatory. 2. Repeatedly construct mineral doors with research minerals both in and out of science. 3. Somehow remove parts of her body (hands, arms, and in one instance her CHEST), then run around departures naked as an IPC, talking about said missing limb to anyone who will listen. 4. http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2683 5. Carry weapons-grade prototypes around escape (energy shields and lasers) openly. Katie Stone likewise caused a great deal of trouble while she was in engineering, though to a lesser degree. Then there was Deja. I'll say no more on Deja. Considering the repeated and continual chucklefucking of the player, several complaint-worthy actions and minor server rule violations, and complete disregard for any and all protocol around science as the character that Sleepy is using to apply for Head of Staff, I do not feel in that at this time Sleepy should be given this whitelist. Not until their behavior markedly improves.

I'd chime in, but most of my views and actions in the round were expressed pretty clearly in the logs. The captain was detained by security for grand sabotage and Hellion and HELIX were recovered as best we could, given the circumstances. Hellion was revived by AI console, HELIX had their cyberbrain removed from their chassis (I apologize for breaking EJ, but considering the circumstances the CMO and Nasir didn't have much choice. EJ's Android kinda started hitting us with wirecutters. ) ... Then a holodeck plasma fire killed just about everyone because someone didn't know how hilariously lethal holofire is, then I had to go to bed. ...oddly I have no real regrets. Getting killed like that was an inescapable act of god.

Right. Events as far as I know them: Heist Round. I was the acting cap at the time, there was no head of security. Shortly after I arrived I had to go up to the bridge. ( I don't exactly recall why. It was a long night last night ). While I was going up there I heard people cutting and unscrewing things. I went to investigate the captain's office and saw at minimum three Vox looting it. The Vox explained calmly that the station crew had killed one of their number, and in retaliation they were stealing the captain's office. Since I was unarmed and outnumbered, I left and went down to security. Messaging ahead to the warden that I would need a few officers armed up. Kaipov, Skyline, and Jillian were present when I arrived. I briefed them quickly and told them to come with me to the captain's office to stop the vox from stealing high-value things like the Auth disk, the spare ID, and the captain's headset. By the time we got back the Vox had bugged out, with security landing a single lethal on one of them as they fled. Considering they now had an important All-Access ID, I took all three officers present and told them to get suits and try to recover our stolen equipment. I went with them to EVA and gave one of the engineering suits and one of the void jetpacks to Skyline so all three could move freely in space, as well as giving them orders to stick together and attempt to detain rather than outright kill the Vox. As far as I know from PDA logs, the group got separated when they ran into a drone. Kaipov stumbled on to the Vox shuttle and eventually ended up killed. Jillian got spaced, worked her way back, then went back out on her own accord and got killed. Skyline ended up getting lost for a bit, then came back inside and informed me of a "dead" (SSD) engineer in a solar access who we pulled in. TL : DR Vox went and raided a high-level area. Crew sent a group of security (two officers and the warden) after them. Vox won the subsequent fight. Vox players distort the truth and complain about the crew reacting to them as raiders when they had been raiding the captain's office.

One very, very, very common trait of greytide players is suicide and other forms of self-harm. Especially on logout. Contrary to popular belief, most greytide players are actually pretty quiet and to-themselves. They slip under the radar as the silent or SSD co-worker that simply does their own thing for a short time, then vanishes quietly. If you know how and where to look they are actually surprisingly common. Only about a third of all greytide characters are actually loud or malicious. I'm not saying they would outright grief, I'm saying if the option is present you will find people using it simply because they can. Such is the nature of the beast. Be careful giving people a verb that they can use to incapacitate themselves, it will be used and possibly abused.

I worry this would be abused/abusable by greytiders.