Ling Rework Concept: Parasitic Evolving Horror

[Kaed]

With the first tier of my ling rework finished, making the ling something people might want to play (assuming it passes review, which it seems to largely be doing), I'd like to sit down and discuss with you my current vision for New Ling.  It's going to be a significant overhaul of the concept, while keeping a touch of it's original flavor.

________

The first thing to note about the new changeling concept is that DNA points will become plentiful with the new system.  No longer having to kill to gain DNA, it is possible to harvest 2-3 points from half the people on the station with only a minor expenditure of time on each one, soon having 10-20 points to play with as you wish.  DNA point hunger will largely be a thing of the past with current prices and what is available to buy, which is why people will need something to spend it on.

Here's where the new system will come into play.  The first thing to note is that now the value of DNA point gain and base prices will be multiplied by 10.  Effectively, this means little for the base mechanics except that, for instance, it will cost 50 DNA points to get what is currently called silence sting, and you gain 10 points from extracting someone's DNA.

More importantly however, this allows me to create DNA costs that can work with fractions of DNA point gain and can effectively scale, making it far easier to make something that, for instance, costs 4 points + 4 for every previous level.  It's a lot harder to make something cost 0.4, 0.8, 1.2, etc points and looks really messy. 

Why does this matter?

Because the new changeling will be heavily focused around constantly evolving itself and growing more powerful.  There will be quite a few statistically based variables for the changeling that I will be adding, and all of them can be improved infinitely in theory, but in practice, they eventually become prohibitively expensive.  This makes it so no two changelings are necessarily the same - maybe one person makes a ling that is extremely difficult to kill, upgrading the variables that gives them increasing damage resistance and regeneration, wading through gunfire with impunity, using the terror of their near immortality to scare the crew as they cut them up with arm blades.  Another upgrades their range to the maximum and uses a telescopic eye to snipe people with horrible biological projectiles.  Maybe a third one ops to just be a well-rounded character with no significant weaknesses or strengths.

But Kaed, I heard Strawman McWorriedguy say, what is to stop someone from just silently maximizing all their stats and becoming god in the last 10 minutes of the round?  I'm glad you asked, imaginary person worried about game progression and balance!  What will stop them is what I am going to tenuously refer to as 'tier ceilings'.  There are going to be three (probably) categories of evolution you can choose from in this system.  Let's  call them, for the sake of this thread, "Tank" (damage mitigation/regeneration/etc), "Sniper" (Ranged combat and parasite use), and "Adaptation" (Tricky stuff like better disguises, faster DNA extraction and stun removal).

Each of these three 'categories' of evolution will have several things you upgrade to improve your tier in them.  Once you exceed a certain amount of progress in one of those tier's collective evolutions, you will enter 'Tier 2' of that category. By doing so, you have effectively committed yourself to that tier.  You can no longer reach tier 3 with the other two.  Once you reach tier 3 in that category, you are locked into it entirely.  All of the other tiers are now locked at a maximum of tier 1.  I'm not sure if I will have you lose any excess evolution points (possibly with a refund), or reward people who want to try and game the system by spending a lot of time getting everything to tier 2 cap before taking tier 3 in their locked in option.  Certainly up for discussion there.

Certain abilities are also locked behind certain tiers.  For instance, telescopic eyes is a tier 2 Sniper ability, and since it's possible to extend the range of your 'stings' to over 7 tiles in this system, you'll need it.

Let's talk about 'stings'.  First thing that I should say about this rework is that there will be no more 'stings'.  Instead, there will be a number of parasites and other awful things you can generate from your own flesh to inject into people.  They take a bit of time to get into place, but after that, they effectively can be used by you at will.  For example: Instead of Silence Sting, there will be a new ability called Vocal Parasite.  After it emplaces itself into their body and finishes wriggling through their veins and flesh, it sits there and waits in their throat.  Once you engage that vocal parasite (potentially out of their line of sight), the player is unable to speak for a time.  The duration of the silence can be upgraded, and starts out fairly short.  While this sounds fiddly, keep in mind you can now combine this with other abilities, for instance silencing someone important just as you mimic their voice, taking away their ability to immediately naysay your fake orders to go somewhere.  You can only have one parasite of a particular variant in a person at a time, so there could be an Ocular and Vocal parasite sitting in their body, waiting to be used to make someone blind and mute at a bad time, but not two vocal parasites to be used in a chain.  There will probably be a maximum number of parasites you can have inactive and waiting, which is upgradable.

Something else about parasite launching - you can upgrade up to range 2 like you can in current ling and it remains mostly stealthy.  There will probably be a small chance someone notices you launching a parasite into them from 2 squares away, but once you reach Range 3, you have entered Tier 2 of Sniper.  At that point, there will be a new mechanic for launching parasites over long distances and things that works differently, and is very obvious and conveys that you are a changeling.  Stuff like: 

Urist McLing's Neck Splits open and launches a wriggling worm!

Basically, dedicated sniper lings are scary and obviously monsters, rather than just being able to silently infect someone from ten million miles away and out of their vision range. Yes, there will be an ability to snipe people with bone darts outside of horror form, and tier 3 lings will be able to shoot through them through anything but reinforced walls and blast doors.

I also have a vague idea under Adaptation Ling for a tier 3 ability that is really gross and basically attaches a tentacle to everyone in vision range after a loud and obvious chargeup time and begins sucking out their fluids for many DNA points and horror movie themes.  Also a Sensory Parasite that lets you eavesdrop, giving you vision and hearing from the location of someone else (which I might make able to later be used to burst out of their skin and attack someone nearby for extra horror points)

Edited December 30, 2018 by Kaed

[LorenLuke]

Before saying anything else, I like this idea.

 

Things to note-

The idea of parasites is so nice because it makes it far better as an explanation for why someone suffered an effect (say, paralysis) with zero actual chemicals in their system. With the parasites, are they going to be body scannable either general or advanced? Surgically removable? Will the owner get a notification? 

There's the categories set forth. Where would melee combat (e.g. claws, arm blade), come into play?

Will there be utility to parasites beyond inflicting ailments, e.g. tracking a target all nuke disk like, seeing through someone's eyes, hearing what they would hear (possibly including headsets), a temporary dominate, etc.? 

What base abilities will exist besides DNA absorption? 

Will DNA absorption take the full 45 seconds of the person just standing still to so a single successful extraction?

How many times can you extract from one person?

Is this ability more (or possibly less effective) on other changelings?

Are these new lings unabashedly cooperative or only tenuously cooperative (or possibly even competitive)?

Will you retain a round removal absorption for more genetic points?

Will you have a recruitment/thralling/conversion mechanic?

 

I understand this is in the works and that abilities are far from finalized, but given your idea I want to pick your brain about how you expect things to be played given different scenarios, with answers being how you imagine a level 3 for each type of ling (defense, ranged, and adaptive) would respond to each scenario-

You require access into a particular high security room (eg vault, upload, Captain's office), what abilities do you have that others don't that can help you achieve this?

You've been permanently brigged for murder and are clad in jumpsuit. What can you do to escape? What can you do after to remain free?

You have reason to do away with someone. What are both the quietest and the most efficient ways you can do it?

You're in interrogation, handcuffed. How can you turn the tide to your favor?

 

That said, I know it's a lot, but it's an exciting project to me an am absurdly curious to the direction you wish to take it.

[GreenBoi]

Yes, yes, and fucking yes! This is the ling rework we NEED! And the whole parasite stuff could really add to the atmosphere. Imagine being a lone ling and you see someone down the maintenance tunnel, they start to run off and then you use your 7-tile parasite launcher and shoot at them, but the person doesn't have enough time to yell 'least they want to be downed and drag into somewhere and potentially killed so they keep running and by that time, the parasite has settled in and you instantly activate it and BOOM, they can't speak. You then slip back into somewhere inconspicuous and then, 20 or so seconds after, they finally yell and people think they're ridiculous. How can someone grow a parasite out of their skin and shoot it at you? And now, you have them under their whim. At any time, you can find them, activate that parasite, and do whatever you need.

 

As much as I love this, I have some questions. Will new lings have the ability to kinda use a "Detect Parasite" to remember where all their parasites are as it will eventully get confusing and will there be a stun parasite tht instead of taking like 8-22 seconds to settle in, do they just hop out and explode and do a sorta stun AoE? Oh, and one last thing: if we keep armblades (I won't doubt we keep it, but just in case), will they be able to jack open airlocks? They've strangely been missing that ability when it'd really help.

 

Most importantly, will Surgeons be able to remove these parasites? They'd show up on bodyscanners, I'd believe, and they'd probably eventually make the hosts feel unnatural the longer they're inside them so I'm hoping Surgeons will eventually be wierded out that there's a parasite in a person. This could even start a thing where Changelings make people think there's a spreading parasite and cause their victims to be quarantined.

Edited December 31, 2018 by GreenBoi
Added the most important question

[ShameOnTurtles]

I love the flavor of this and the fact it focuses on what I love about changeling the most, the horror alien aspect. I don't have much to ask that hasn't been asked already in this thread, but I offer my encouragement and praise for what I see as a great idea.

I was cautious about your PR for ling fixes but seeing your overall vision I am very excited and would like to see it implemented. Thank you for making a post.

[Kaed]

8 hours ago, GreenBoi said:

Yes, yes, and fucking yes! This is the ling rework we NEED! And the whole parasite stuff could really add to the atmosphere. Imagine being a lone ling and you see someone down the maintenance tunnel, they start to run off and then you use your 7-tile parasite launcher and shoot at them, but the person doesn't have enough time to yell 'least they want to be downed and drag into somewhere and potentially killed so they keep running and by that time, the parasite has settled in and you instantly activate it and BOOM, they can't speak. You then slip back into somewhere inconspicuous and then, 20 or so seconds after, they finally yell and people think they're ridiculous. How can someone grow a parasite out of their skin and shoot it at you? And now, you have them under their whim. At any time, you can find them, activate that parasite, and do whatever you need.

 

As much as I love this, I have some questions. Will new lings have the ability to kinda use a "Detect Parasite" to remember where all their parasites are as it will eventully get confusing and will there be a stun parasite tht instead of taking like 8-22 seconds to settle in, do they just hop out and explode and do a sorta stun AoE? Oh, and one last thing: if we keep armblades (I won't doubt we keep it, but just in case), will they be able to jack open airlocks? They've strangely been missing that ability when it'd really help.

 

Most importantly, will Surgeons be able to remove these parasites? They'd show up on bodyscanners, I'd believe, and they'd probably eventually make the hosts feel unnatural the longer they're inside them so I'm hoping Surgeons will eventually be wierded out that there's a parasite in a person. This could even start a thing where Changelings make people think there's a spreading parasite and cause their victims to be quarantined.

Changelings will have some system to track their parasites.  I'm not sure what it is yet, but I'm leaning strongly towards a HUD icon only changelings can see.  I'm not certain it's possible to make the icon only visible to the changeling who made it, though.

Another possibility is some way of telling the direction of your parasites from your current position.  I know from pinpointers that the game has some way to recognize directional cues based on positions.  It's a hard one.  I don't really want you to be able to just pull up a list of people's names and what's in them, though, because that seems more tech-y than biological - at most, a list of parasites you have active, maybe with numbers designating them (or greek alphabet titles, since that seems to be a ling thing, ocular parasite lamba etc). 

Parasites remain there generally for STRATEGIC usage more than tactical, and if you start implanting more than like 4-5, you better have a way to memorize them.  I'm not certain I want them to last more than one use either.  There might be a way to make parasites multi use, but I kind of want them by default to be single use and self destruct, removing the evidence when they go to medical claiming they felt something wriggling in their throat.  I have a vague idea of a sniper upgrade that can make parasites activate within seconds instead of after a incubation period, but it will be very obvious and people will feel it digging into their skin and paralyzing their throat or whatever, and your nature will be revealed.

Armblades will stay, and I probably will add some upgrade under Tank that lets you yank doors open ala vaurca queens and aliums.

It is my eventual goal to make parasites be a physical object that can be found and removed, yes.  I think during the alpha stages of things I may have them simply exist as an abstract object or variable inside someone's body that doesn't show up, because it's more important to me that I initially make the parasites function before fiddling about with making them visible and interactable. 

I intend for this rework to be processed in bites that can be tested and bugfixed rather than shoving the whole thing down people's throats at once 6+ months from now and having a mass of problems show up that overwhelms me.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Kaed

[Kaed]

11 hours ago, LorenLuke said:

Before saying anything else, I like this idea.

 

Things to note-

The idea of parasites is so nice because it makes it far better as an explanation for why someone suffered an effect (say, paralysis) with zero actual chemicals in their system. With the parasites, are they going to be body scannable either general or advanced? Surgically removable? Will the owner get a notification? 

There's the categories set forth. Where would melee combat (e.g. claws, arm blade), come into play?

Will there be utility to parasites beyond inflicting ailments, e.g. tracking a target all nuke disk like, seeing through someone's eyes, hearing what they would hear (possibly including headsets), a temporary dominate, etc.? 

What base abilities will exist besides DNA absorption? 

Will DNA absorption take the full 45 seconds of the person just standing still to so a single successful extraction?

How many times can you extract from one person?

Is this ability more (or possibly less effective) on other changelings?

Are these new lings unabashedly cooperative or only tenuously cooperative (or possibly even competitive)?

Will you retain a round removal absorption for more genetic points?

Will you have a recruitment/thralling/conversion mechanic?

 

I understand this is in the works and that abilities are far from finalized, but given your idea I want to pick your brain about how you expect things to be played given different scenarios, with answers being how you imagine a level 3 for each type of ling (defense, ranged, and adaptive) would respond to each scenario-

You require access into a particular high security room (eg vault, upload, Captain's office), what abilities do you have that others don't that can help you achieve this?

You've been permanently brigged for murder and are clad in jumpsuit. What can you do to escape? What can you do after to remain free?

You have reason to do away with someone. What are both the quietest and the most efficient ways you can do it?

You're in interrogation, handcuffed. How can you turn the tide to your favor?

 

That said, I know it's a lot, but it's an exciting project to me an am absurdly curious to the direction you wish to take it.

Oops, missed this.  I'll answer them briefly, in order (at least, the ones that weren't answered above)

-Melee combat would fall under the 'tank' category (which is still a working name)

-Tracking people will probably be something inherent to all parasites, just because you need to locate people who have them.  I do indeed plan for there to be a parasite(s) that burrows into their brain/nervous system, allowing you to see through their eyes/possibly even hijack their body... ~BRIEFLY~

-Still mostly the same base abilities. I don't have any base abilities to add that I haven't already, yet.

-The time of the DNA extraction is currently set to the default 60 seconds.  If it becomes too long and problematic, I will lower it. I have an alternate version that takes ~20 seconds instead waiting to be implemented if needed.

-You can extract from a person as many times as you like, though I think I will make it hurt them more each time and become more noticeable to them the more genetic damage they receive.  I would say you can probably get about 70-100 DNA points from a person if you pin them down and extract from them until they die.  This will take a lot longer than simply slurping with the proboscis, but is more rewarding.

-You cannot extract from changelings without using a proboscis, i.e. one changeling must die during such an event, no passive drain.  But you also get all their powers and DNA, sooo.

-I'm only emplacing mechanics.  I do not choose whether they cooperate with each other or not.  Certainly there will be benefits to both highlander and cooperative ling play

-There will be no conversion or recruitment mechanics.  You are all food and playthings of the changelings, to be eaten or killed.  Vampires and cultists already have conversion stuff covered from the supernatural angle.  This is just horror space monster. 

-----

You require access into a particular high security room (eg vault, upload, Captain's office), what abilities do you have that others don't that can help you achieve this?

Tank: A tank could simply tear non-reinforced walls down and yank open doors with their arm blades.  With the amount of damage control and resistance they have, they would spit at your vault turrets, too, and take what they want.

Sniper: Infest someone who has access to the area with several parasites that will disable them, then ambush them in an area of your choosing, taking their access card for yourself.  Maybe you eat them too.

Adaptation: Using your ability to manifest false clothing and fake ID cards from your flesh to make yourself look exactly like the captain and get the AI to let you into wherever you want.  Alternatively, there might be a high level ability that lets you become more amorphous and just slide through the maint drone hatches like an ooze.  Of course, this should be done when no one is looking, or you'll have bigger problems than infiltration charges.

You've been permanently brigged for murder and are clad in jumpsuit. What can you do to escape? What can you do after to remain free?

Tank: Same as above.  The puny prison walls cannot contain your monstrous power. Tanks are not supposed to be subtle, you are a monster and spit upon the attempts of lesser creatures to contain you.

Sniper: Infest one of your captors with parasites that you activate at exactly the right time to make your escape.  Murder the others with wall-penetrating bone darts from out of their vision range. 

Adaptation: something sneaky, I expect.  Perhaps disguising yourself as one of the guards.  I might add an ability that lets your emulate simple tools like screwdrivers, wirecutters, and crowbars from your bone structure, allowing you to simply break your way out of prison, engineer style (ignoring the electrified grates with an upgrade that makes you immune to dat shit)  Or just ooze through the maint drone hatches, I guess.

You have reason to do away with someone. What are both the quietest and the most efficient ways you can do it

Tank: The only way you're doing away with someone quietly is by dipping into the other two categories.  Maybe you can cut them to bloody chunks before they have time to scream?

Sniper: Self evident

Adaptation: These guys aren't really good for killing people.  They will probably gain benefits the other classes don't have for quiet DNA absorption, and late game will have some noisy abilities that harm or kill lots of people to gain even more delicious DNA, like that scene from The Thing where the monster had all the doggies wrapped up in tentacles and was eating them.  Except you are the doggies.  And the changeling is eating you.

You're in interrogation, handcuffed. How can you turn the tide to your favor?

Tank: Break out of the puny cuffs when your arm blades come out, then destroy those who dared to interrogate you while bucklecuffed.

Sniper: Infest them, disable them the moment your cuffs are off and make a get away.  Alternatively, bone dart everyone around you to death that doesn't flee, and escape at your leisure.

Adaptation: Cuffs cannot hold you, you can rearrange your bones or remove them at will.  Turn into flesh ooze, and flee through a vent.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Kaed

[Diona Gestalt (654)]

Adaptation silent kills sound very much like ganking, and they are encouraged to do so because they unlock useful powers only lategame - worse then old ling?

Maybe let them become a parasite on their own, overpowered borer style? Might help in all three tasks, as they sound weak in all but escaping cuffs/ventcrawling.

[LorenLuke]

2 hours ago, Diona Gestalt (654) said:

Adaptation silent kills sound very much like ganking, and they are encouraged to do so because they unlock useful powers only lategame - worse then old ling?

The idea is that you can silently and secretly retrieve DNA from someone without having to sprit them away.

And even if they had some instant 'devour you whole, run off like alien hunter to take you somewhere else' ability, just because the ability is itself sudden doesn't mean it's a gank. Is it a gank if you have to fight for this life as normal but you can't use your radio? Is it a gank if they attack suddenly but RP as crew for ten minutes prior? 

Adaptation is apparently suited for stealth and subterfuge, meaning that backstabbing and impersonation are what it's all about, which may mean taking a guy down quickly.

 

[driecg36]

I like this suggestion a lot, but I think it would make more sense to have one of the branches be "Biohazard" compared to "Sniper." Things like corrosive gas clouds, poison parasites, viruses, things that generally fuck with biological organisms. Having ranged parasites is good, yes, but I think you can give it more flavor than just "ling but at range."

Maybe even be able to separate parts of itself into aggressive mobs, or remote controlled ones that can crawl through vents.

[Kaed]

This project is being suspended indefinitely due to my growing distaste with the direction the server is going that I will not into in detail here sucking all desire to work on it or play on the server.  If I feel differently later, I will probably open a new thread referencing this one, because I expect it will be binned shortly.

[Arrow768]

Hm, quite disappointing.
This looked like a pretty interesting rework.

Moving it to the archive then.

Feel free to ping staff in case you want to resurrect it.