Staff Complaint - Evandorf

[BurgerBB]

BYOND Key: BurgerBB
Staff BYOND Key: Evandorf
Game ID: bZt-dzi8
Reason for complaint: (State your reason for your complaint)

 

Was roboticist. Was working on a Gygax to give to security maybe near the round end if the round called for it.
Announcement came on saying our pay was cut by 25%. Okay.
I asked the research director (EL1) for 2 sheets of diamond for a gygax. They didn't care and didn't communicate with me at all about that material request.
I printed out a ripley torso and arm, attached it, and gave it to security. Said that this was 75% of a Durand because I didn't want to waste metal over a meme. The total cost of it was like 4 sheets of metal. Research Director immediately demanded that I was arrested and my access revoked. I argued it was a load of shit. Didn't care.
Charged with MAXIMUM SENTENCE for neglect of duty and my access revoked, all for sending a Ripley to security. This was 15 minutes and access revocation. Maximum sentences are usually reserved for the examples provided in the neglect of duty charge, such as releasing phoron.
The Gygax was then outfitted with military tech: A laser CANON (Read: CANON), a HEAVY ION RIFLE (read: HEAVY ION RIFLE), a repair droid, and a energy relay. This is absolutely non-standard. Absolutely nothing of substance happened and did not justify the creation of a Gygax with these armaments. In most cases it is equipped with a laser carbine, a taser carbine, a repair droid, and an energy relay.
The Gygax was used semi-frequently throughout the round as a deterrence whenever anything happened. Thankfully the loyalist head of security was not keen on using it 24/7 in the hallways.

EL1 wasn't a loyalist by the way.

I ahelped it and Evandorf deemed it valid. I do not think it was valid. I went on discord to talk about it and the dude that was the research director FUCKING ADMITTED that it was dumb to build a gygax but released it anyways to security loaded with more than what was needed.

[Evandorf]

Here are the full logs of the ahelp.

 

Spoiler

[01:15:04] burgerbb -> Adminhelp: Yeah um... the research director is building a gygax with a laser canon and a whole bunch of other scary shit.
[01:16:25] evandorf -> burgerbb: Did he say why?
[01:17:04] burgerbb -> evandorf: No. The situation is pretty fucked up. I won't be participating in the round anymore but basically he threw me and the other robotisist out and then made a mech with an ion cannon, a laser cannon, an energy relay and a repair droid.
[01:17:23] burgerbb -> evandorf: I mean my opinion doesn't matter but unless he's loyalist, this is pretty fucked up.
[01:17:37] evandorf -> burgerbb: I'll look into it.
[01:19:37] evandorf -> burgerbb: He says you built most of it then mutinied.
[01:19:45] burgerbb -> evandorf: "Mutinied."
[01:20:08] burgerbb -> evandorf: I basically gave security a half finished ripley as a joke over the 75% paycut. That's not mutiny.
[01:20:29] evandorf -> burgerbb: So you didn't start the gygax?
[01:20:45] burgerbb -> evandorf: I started it, but only completeled half of it for a multitude of reasons.
[01:21:07] burgerbb -> evandorf: Despite not being a loyalist, he recommended the maximum sentence for neglect of duty. I was arrested despite doing work, such as that half made Gygax.
[01:21:26] burgerbb -> evandorf: Took away my access, then finished the Gygax, gave it to security.
[01:21:29] evandorf -> burgerbb: Were you rev or loyalist when you started it?
[01:21:40] burgerbb -> evandorf: No. It wasn't meant to leave robotics without paperwork or approval.
[01:22:13] evandorf -> burgerbb: Originally I thought this was an ahelp regarding powergaming, but then it seems that he didn't even start the project and only completed it.
[01:22:40] burgerbb -> evandorf: It's powergaming/metagaming. I started it. I intended to finish it later. I couldn't finish it because there wasn't enough diamonds.
[01:23:06] burgerbb -> evandorf: Then when, as a joke, I sent security a half made ripley, he demanded that I be arrested for neglect of duty and that my access be taken away.
[01:23:12] evandorf -> burgerbb: So you were powergaming then too?
[01:23:30] burgerbb -> evandorf: I don't see how I was powergaming. I never intended it to leave robotics or give it to security, or use it for that matter.
[01:24:00] burgerbb -> evandorf: The issue I have is telling me to fuck off and then finishing the gygax for himself, and then giving it tosecurity.
[01:24:22] burgerbb -> evandorf: Sorry, not telling me to fuck off, literally having me arrested for neglect of duty.
[01:25:16] evandorf -> burgerbb: Intent matters a lot. If I start the round and immediately build a knife I'm power gaming, but if I just find a knife in maintenance and keep it it's not. The difference is in one instance I initiated the action. This situation is similar because he didn't initiate the build and it seems reasonable to me to not waste materials and finish it when you were arrested.
[01:25:53] burgerbb -> evandorf: It seems unreasonable because he gave it to security loaded for bear, (?) and he is ruining the round because it is currently being used to suppress revs.
[01:26:10] burgerbb -> evandorf: He effectively made the round one sided by giving it to security and putting it in play.
[01:26:44] burgerbb -> evandorf: If I made the gygax, it would just sit in robotics like most rounds I make gygaxes on.
[01:27:00] burgerbb -> evandorf: And if he had an urgency to distrubute resources, he would've given the ripley to mining.
[01:27:14] burgerbb -> evandorf: Which he didn't.
[01:27:14] evandorf -> burgerbb: That's what science does though. They research and make better equipment. If he's neither loyalist or rev then he would simply do his job as per usual, unless he was personally invested in the paycut.
[01:27:43] burgerbb -> evandorf: He finished the Gygax and distributed it without approval despite being a whitelisted head of staff.
[01:27:53] burgerbb -> evandorf: He gave it military grade weapons and equipment.
[01:28:06] evandorf -> burgerbb: He has that authority as RD, he gets to decide which equipment leaves research.
[01:28:29] burgerbb -> evandorf: Yeah and he used it to ruin a round effectively.
[01:28:49] burgerbb -> evandorf: I think he kicked me out because he thought I was a rev. I think he was metagaming.
[01:28:50] evandorf -> burgerbb: We're almost at the two hour mark. I don't see how the round is ruined.
[01:29:12] burgerbb -> evandorf: you'd be suprised. I've learned a lot about what a mech could do on standby.
[01:29:24] burgerbb -> evandorf: I mean the head of security is a loyalist too and he thinks taking it out is too far.
[01:29:37] burgerbb -> evandorf: Oh sorry, my mistake. He isn't.
[01:29:40] evandorf -> burgerbb: That should settle the matter then if the HoS doesn't want to use it.
[01:30:01] burgerbb -> evandorf: It doesn't, because I genuinely believe that the research director intentionally tried be a cunt.
[01:30:24] burgerbb -> evandorf: He demanded that I would be arrested and my access stripped.
[01:30:44] evandorf -> burgerbb: Because you were building a gygax?
[01:31:12] burgerbb -> evandorf: No. The arrest was made because I built a ripley.
[01:31:21] burgerbb -> evandorf: And I gave it, half finished, to security.
[01:31:45] burgerbb -> evandorf: They charged me with neglect of duty for doing so despite working, and despite neglect of duty being a very inappropriate charge.
[01:31:46] evandorf -> burgerbb: What do you mean by half finished? With the armour unwelded or something?
[01:32:01] burgerbb -> evandorf: It was just the torso and an arm. It was like total 5 sheets of metal.
[01:32:18] burgerbb -> evandorf: It was equivelent to throwing 5 sheets of metal at security and saying "Here is your mech."
[01:32:59] evandorf -> burgerbb: I think Neglect of Duty is an applicable chagre. The definition is to fail to perform a job to a satisfactory standard. The definition of what is satisfactory is set by the department head.
[01:33:04] burgerbb -> evandorf: Again, as I said, if they truely gave a shit about distrubuting resources, he woud've given the ripley to mining.
[01:33:13] burgerbb -> evandorf: Which he didn't.
[01:33:39] burgerbb -> evandorf: I was working. It was not neglect of duty.
[01:33:39] evandorf -> burgerbb: I'll have to check, but given the circumstances it could be safe (?) to assume that mining isn't working atm.
[01:34:08] burgerbb -> evandorf: Mining is working. The reason why they were able to finish the gygax was because mining was working.
[01:34:14] evandorf -> burgerbb: Neglect of duty is applicable, even if you are working. The key issue is whether or not your work is satisfactory.
[01:34:27] burgerbb -> evandorf: Whatever, that's not important.
[01:34:49] burgerbb -> evandorf: The important part is that I think they powergamed/metagamed by kicking me out and delivering a gygax to security.
[01:35:09] burgerbb -> evandorf: Because they thought I was a rev, despite my behavior not deserving of a maximum sentence.
[01:36:41] evandorf -> burgerbb: The reason I'm discussing whether or not neglect was applicable is because of the metagaming accusation. If neglect wasn't applicable and he just had you arrested for no reason that would be one thing, but since neglect appears to be valid he had good reason to remove you.
[01:37:01] burgerbb -> evandorf: A maximum sentence isn't unreasonable
[01:37:07] burgerbb -> evandorf: Minimum sentence would be.
[01:37:19] evandorf -> burgerbb: Then that would be an issue with security, not the RD.
[01:37:28] burgerbb -> evandorf: The R&D reported and recommended the charges.
[01:37:42] burgerbb -> evandorf: He specifically requested that my ID be revoked.
[01:38:50] evandorf -> burgerbb: Having you demoted/suspended from research is also his right as RD. If he doesn't want you on his staff he can make that call. He could do so without the neglect charge.
[01:39:02] burgerbb -> evandorf: The dude metagamed.
[01:39:09] burgerbb -> evandorf: Straight up. I don't see how you can see this.
[01:39:28] burgerbb -> evandorf: He literally kicked me out of robotics over me giving security 5 sheets of metal.
[01:39:37] burgerbb -> evandorf: Then built a fully loaded gygax.
[01:39:43] burgerbb -> evandorf: Which is currently being used RIGHT NOW.
[01:40:00] burgerbb -> evandorf: Look at the equipment on the gygax. Tell me that's reasonable for a mech for security.
[01:42:26] evandorf -> burgerbb: Let me look into it, one sec.
[01:50:26] evandorf -> burgerbb: OK, so I spoke to the RD and the HoS. The RD finished the gygax and turned it over to the HoS for the armory and the Captain has authorized its use as a deterent.
[01:51:24] burgerbb -> evandorf: The RD is not an antag.
[01:51:52] burgerbb -> evandorf: I'm not asking you to look at individule situations as a whole, I'm asking you to look at the full picture.
[01:52:46] evandorf -> burgerbb: From what I see, the RD finished an imcomplete gygax and gave it to security. They began using it because the Captain felt it was needed as a deterrent.
[01:53:08] burgerbb -> evandorf: I see this is going nowhere. I'll probably just be posting it on the forums as a complete arguement.
[01:53:54] evandorf -> burgerbb: Alright, if you disagree with how this was handled I'd recommend making a staff complaint.
[01:54:03] burgerbb -> evandorf: Yeah that's what I'm going to do.
[01:54:10] evandorf -> burgerbb: Alright. Have a good one.

 

 

[ben10083]

Neglect of Duty

Spoiler

i206/Neglect of Duty - To fail to perform a job to a satisfactory standard.

This can be due to honest or dishonest mistakes that the Head of the Department feels hampers Department productivity. Examples include scientists/engineers releasing phoron or causing a breach, doctors mixing up medicines that cause injury to patients, or the Warden not doing his job. Additionally, a member of Command may only be charged with Neglect of Duty with the agreement of the Captain, or through a Captain level decision passed by the Command Staff.

min

10 minutes

max

15 minutes and/or demotion

1

 

 

[BurgerBB]

I disputed the neglect of duty charge heavily because I was doing quite a bit of work beforehand as a roboticist. As I said in the ahelp, I sent the equivalent of 5 sheets of metal to security and told them that this was 75% of a Durand.

Neglect of duty charges involving access revocation should be for the examples outlined above with the phoron fires and such. My actions did not hurt anyone nor did it hurt productivity as I was actually doing my job as a roboticist. Also this was not a security issue. The Research Director specifically demanded these charges, on top of this, also demanded slander.

[SkullMagic]

Neglect of Duty

  Hide contents

i206/Neglect of Duty - To fail to perform a job to a satisfactory standard.

This can be due to honest or dishonest mistakes that the Head of the Department feels hampers Department productivity.

1

I think that's important. The "hampers Department productivity" part means that the RD wrongfully sent you to jail - how is doing your job as a roboticist (building things to aid the station) hampering productivity?

I don't think this is evandorf's fault, though. The Security screwed up, not him - and I'm not sure what the hell the RD was doing.

[ben10083]

On 29/03/2019 at 12:49, SkullMagic said:

I don't think this is evandorf's fault, though. The Security screwed up, not him - and I'm not sure what the hell the RD was doing.

Actually, this regulation is unique in the sense that being charged with this is with the head's discretion. Of course major ones may be charged by sec, but if there is a head either they are report it themselves or sec runs it through the head. The RD in this told security to arrest him for neglect, so security was in a sense bound to charge him due to the RD. As such, the RD is the one who should be responsible for the charge.

[Flamingo]

@Shadow7889 and I will be handling this complaint. Does anyone perhaps have the round ID at hand? Nevermind, I've found it.

[Shadow7889]

Apologies for the delays. It's taken some time to go over things.

To keep things short, we've determined that the Research Director didn't really do anything wrong by having you removed from the research department. While you weren't exactly hostile in your interaction with them, it is at the determination of the Director as to what constitutes neglect of duty, and though you may argue that it was "only five sheets of metal", it is the intent behind your actions and your insubordination that ultimately ended in your removal.

Secondly, we have determined that it was not in fact an issue of powergaming to complete an already begun research project and deliver it to security. It is the Research Director's decision on what is fabricated and what leaves robotics. The project was already underway, and they simply completed and outfitted it to be delivered. While they may have given it a bit more of a complement than was necessary, it falls on the Head of Security to keep it securely locked away, and they could have always requested less-than-lethal aramants for the mech in question.

Revolution is a tricky gamemode because characters have a little more leeway in their behavior than in most gamemodes. Some characters might be inherently more (or less) loyal to the company, and they can really let those qualities shine during a mode such as this, even without being officially recruited to the revolution, provided they don't take it overboard.

I'll leave this open for 24 hours if there are any questions, comments, or concerns raised in that time.

[Flamingo]

Locking and Archiving.