[Resolved] Player Complaint: Theneworleans

[Faris]

BYOND Key: Aboshehab

Game ID: bZH-dLgX on 2019-04-11 02:08:59

Player Byond Key: TheNewOrleans

Staff involved: TrickingTrapster

Reason for complaint: Intentional attempt at metagrudge using meta info. Lying to staff.

I would like to bring further issues with the player. In most cases, the following would be something I can treat as fully within in-character or something I can speak to them privately to solve, though what prompted my post has made both options undesirable for me.

A bit of background. The player plays a character called Nick Volvolaad, a character that heavily insists on wearing regular clothing in security. My character, a Head of Security has his reasons on why they should wear their uniform. His character was not happy with this, a lot of cussing and causing issues, got suspended/charged for some stuff. So far this is fine by me. We had a brief discussion in looc about one of the two shifts these issues arose about possibly being non-canon, and I affirmed that it was indeed canon, no staff member disagreed with me. So far not much of an issue, people hash out canon events all the time.

So to put this point by point, which is not much. 

1- Refused to wear uniform.

2- Cussed and personally insulted his superior in both shifts together, a Head of Security.

3- Cause issues to his superior and the department.

4- Got suspended and charged for the actions they've done.

That above I'm fine with. What follows is something I'm not.

Anatoly Kovacs, their Detective character joined the same round in which Nick was suspended and charged. Approached my character, a character he has never interacted with before or even shared a shift together, and his few first words were done with the intent to mock one of the reasons Nick Volvolaad got into trouble over. I sent an adminhelp, and ignored him while staff handled it as I was not willing to interact and go over the same issues his previous character on the same shift presented. Additionally, I felt he had the intention to metagrudge me with information his character did not have.

When he spoke with staff, he insisted his character has met mine multiple times, and that the same issues Nick had, were also had by this character, Anatoly. I informed staff both characters have never shared a round together before this. Staff member @TrickingTrapster and nothing much came out of it as they insisted both character had met and by that virtue it wasn't a issue.

The reason I bring this up is for two reasons. I feel like what he did was malicious with the intent to cause me grief had I not sent an adminhelp and that he lied to staff.

I asked someone to check how many rounds we shared, and at the time of me asking, Anatoly had 10 rounds played over a period of 10 days, with zero rounds either of us have played together aside from the one I described above, making what he stated as a supposed fact impossible. Especially since aside from the previous week, I had a period of around a month or two of almost no activity, aside from a few rounds, so the chance of him mistaking his character for another is also impossible. I tend to be aware of who I play with and the only character Orleans plays with that I really have any interaction with in security is probably only Nick Volvolaad. 

 

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? Yes. Left with a note I believe. 

Approximate Date/Time: 2019-04-11 02:08:59 according to the WI

Edited April 15, 2019 by Sharp

[TheOrleans]

Hello Abos.

This issue (that happened like five days ago) was adminhelped at the time, as he has said, with the result of a note.

I explained the situation to the Staff that handled it. I thought that Anatoly Kovacs and Bastaki had issues too. (I kind of still think it). So at some point (after gearing up and everything, is not like I went straight to speak with Bastaki lol), I was patrolling around the station and at some point I found Bastaki in the bar, and this interaction happened.

The admin placed a note cause he thinks that there was no interaction between Kovacs and Bastaki before that one, so I just let it go, cause maybe I was wrong.

I use around 8 characters, and others I played before that I deleted at some point, so I've used over 10 characters on Aurora, this is the first time I make a failure like this (failing to keep track of what interactions each character had), I think that since both are members of security, that has something to do.

I'm not changing what I said, I thought (and I'm still a bit confused since this never happened to me before) that Bastaki and Kovacs had interacted before. If it didn't happen I'm sorry, I got my note. If it happened, well, I'm right, but a note wasn't a big deal either.

I guess you are just asking for a heavier punishment for my failure, calling it intentional metagrudging and saying that I would have griefed without the admin/mod interfering (which is totally false since the admin/mod didn't say anything to me until 5-10 mins later, way after I left the bar after the interaction), so, without having anything else to say, I'll guess that all we can do is wait for the admins/mods to decide.

Edited April 15, 2019 by TheOrleans

[Faris]

You didn't read my entire post. They never met before. There is a zero chance of it because they only share a single round ID in terms of game play, which is the round I'm talking about.

 

You cannot have had many interactions with me because prior to last week, I've been away for 2-3 months with the odd round that I don't think was even with Khaled. 

 

Your character is new. You may have 10 or so characters and I don't think I've interacted with them either. 

[TheOrleans]

13 minutes ago, Sharp said:

You didn't read my entire post. They never met before. There is a zero chance of it because they only share a single round ID in terms of game play, which is the round I'm talking about.

 

You cannot have had many interactions with me because prior to last week, I've been away for 2-3 months with the odd round that I don't think was even with Khaled. 

 

Your character is new. You may have 10 or so characters and I don't think I've interacted with them either. 

 

I read your entire post. If it's true that they never met before, then I'm wrong, but I wouldn't go against the rules intentionally, ever. This is the first time I make an error regarding mixing interactions between characters, and I guess that's the reason why I got a note. I have two warnings open and one of them is for being SSD without cryoing, with this I mean that I'm not a player that is prone to create trouble, so affirming that I did that intentionally is a bit too hard.

My character in fact is quite new, but I've been playing here in Aurora for a long time (we had that issues between Volvalaad and Bastaki before that time you took). I may not be as cautious as you are when playing my characters and noting who I interact with (I guess that shows that I still have many things to learn, however, I don't think that escalating issues that were considered mistakes, to complaints saying I did them intentionally is a way to work with players to make them improve).

I'm going to say that I feel bad about having this issue with you, since you are a player that I respect (along with your work as HeadAdmin). You could have talked to me about it on Discord (that's what I would have expected from you before) but well, here we are.

Edited April 15, 2019 by TheOrleans

[Faris]

I am fairly sure you do not only have two warnings, especially since you've been on aurora under two different accounts to my knowledge. And your SSD warning to my knowledge was not simply because you did not go to cryo.

 

It's not my place to post those incidents as I'm not an active staff member anymore. I find the circumstances to the event and the way you're explaining yourself to be too suspicious, in addition to your history with the server from my memory.

[TheOrleans]

15 minutes ago, Sharp said:

I am fairly sure you do not only have two warnings, especially since you've been on aurora under two different accounts to my knowledge. And your SSD warning to my knowledge was not simply because you did not go to cryo.

 

It's not my place to post those incidents as I'm not an active staff member anymore. I find the circumstances to the event and the way you're explaining yourself to be too suspicious, in addition to your history with the server from my memory.

Although you say this is not your place to talk about those incidents, you did it, so now I'm explaining it.

I only have two active warnings, and two warnings that expired (last one which expired happened more than half a year ago). And I've been banned once for 3 days (long ago). I've been in two accounts cause I lost my first one, I never tried to hide it (TheOrleans and TheNewOrleans, doesn't look like someone trying to hide it), and I asked all the notes and warnings to be transfered in a way I could see them so I could keep them in My Warnings cause I read them from time to time to keep them in mind. In fact, I had more notes and warnings before than now. This means that I am clearly improving. These days I'm getting the best feedback I've ever read to me, and I'm proud of that. I wouldn't delete those warnings nor the ban if I could choose, since, imo, the only way to learn is to fail. And since I've failed a lot, and now I'm getting good feedback, I would say I'm learning.

It's clear that you have the right to make this complaint, only thing I said is that I expected another attitude from you, like trying to talk to me about this on Discord. The fact that I expected that it's just cause I had a really nice idea about you in my mind. That's all.

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by TheOrleans

[Yonnimer]

Hi, so sorry for the delay with this. Myself and @HouseOfSynthwill be taking this. 

[TheOrleans]

On 02/05/2019 at 00:40, Yonnimer said:

Hi, so sorry for the delay with this. Myself and @HouseOfSynthwill be taking this. 

I think this is something we all know, but, just to make sure:

"If the infractions described in the complaint have already been dealt with by a staff member in-game, a player complaint will not change the outcome of this. If you feel that the outcome was unjust, you are encouraged to post in the Staff Complaints section of the forums."

This is written as part of the complaint rules, it surprised me that a former head admin posted about this issue, which has already been handled and the outcome was a note, and he knows that, so he is deliberately going against the rule.

Just to remind everyone that rule exists.

Edited May 9, 2019 by TheOrleans

[Yonnimer]

Hi, so sorry this took so long to handle, life got in the way a bit with this.

After looking through everything, we see that the topics of the complaint were already handled in a note given to Orleans by tricking. Since the infraction described in the complaint has been handled by a staff member in round, a staff complaint would be needed on the staff member who initially handled it for any further punishment. 

This will be left open for another 24 hours or so if anything else needs to be said before locking and archiving.

[Faris]

9 hours ago, Yonnimer said:

Hi, so sorry this took so long to handle, life got in the way a bit with this.

After looking through everything, we see that the topics of the complaint were already handled in a note given to Orleans by tricking. Since the infraction described in the complaint has been handled by a staff member in round, a staff complaint would be needed on the staff member who initially handled it for any further punishment. 

This will be left open for another 24 hours or so if anything else needs to be said before locking and archiving.

I disagree. The note placed eluded to it possibly being a mistake.

 

I brought extra information that was not present during the ahelp. TT’s verdict at the time was fine, I’m not asking for it to changed. I’m asking for this extra information to be acknowledged and considered, whether you want to want do more or keep it as is, is up to you.

 

I’d have put a staff complaint had TT been aware of the extra information I provided, since as the revision of the guidelines which I made myself would mean. Again, this is not a carbon copy of what TT worked with, I don’t disagree with the verdict at the time. I brought extra information.

 

If I’ll be honest, it feels like this was looked over quickly without regarding the fact there is new information, then cited my own guidelines to mark it as resolved. 

As for Orleans, you’re quoting me when you quote the guidelines.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Aboshedab

[TheOrleans]

8 hours ago, Aboshedab said:

I disagree. The note placed eluded to it possibly being a mistake.

 

I brought extra information that was not present during the ahelp. TT’s verdict at the time was fine, I’m not asking for it to changed. I’m asking for this extra information to be acknowledged and considered, whether you want to want do more or keep it as is, is up to you.

 

I’d have put a staff complaint had TT been aware of the extra information I provided, since as the revision of the guidelines which I made myself would mean. Again, this is not a carbon copy of what TT worked with, I don’t disagree with the verdict at the time. I brought extra information.

 

If I’ll be honest, it feels like this was looked over quickly without regarding the fact there is new information, then cited my own guidelines to mark it as resolved. 

As for Orleans, you’re quoting me when you quote the guidelines.

TT told me, when he placed the note, that I didn't share any round with you, meaning I was wrong. It is still a mistake, Abos. I don't see any new information, to be honest, all what you stated was taken into account when he placed the note. You want to add the fact that I did it in a ''malicious'' way, but that's false, and it's literally impossible to have evidence of someone's intentions.

As I said, you didn't add any information, since TT was already aware (or at least he told me) that we didn't share rounds. I was wrong, and that caused the issue, it's a mistake and I got a note for making a mistake, which is fair. In case of having the same kind of issue again, I will probably get a warning, but since I'm paying much more attention since this incident, it won't happen.

You wrote those guidelines and now you are not following them, Abos.

[HouseOfSynth]

Hey there! Myself and @Yonnimer have discussed what's been brought up since our last reply. We still believe that a note suffices in this case. @TheOrleans has no other staff entries pertaining to this kind of issue and seems to understand that they were wrong, and they have stated they will be ensuring they avoid this kind of mistake again in future.

However we have edited the note to include the information that no previous rounds were shared between the second character @TheOrleans joined as and Abo's HoS and to keep an eye out for metagrudging behaviour between Orleans and Abo in future.

Hopefully both parties find this to be a agreeable outcome. We'll be leaving this open for another 24 hours like before, incase anything else needs to be said.

Thanks for your patience!

[TheOrleans]

I'm okay with the note edit, if I make this kind of mistake again I would probably deserve a heavier punishment, so I agree with this (and hope not to deserve another punishment, heh)

[Faris]

4 hours ago, HouseOfSynth said:

Hey there! Myself and @Yonnimer have discussed what's been brought up since our last reply. We still believe that a note suffices in this case. @TheOrleans has no other staff entries pertaining to this kind of issue and seems to understand that they were wrong, and they have stated they will be ensuring they avoid this kind of mistake again in future.

However we have edited the note to include the information that no previous rounds were shared between the second character @TheOrleans joined as and Abo's HoS and to keep an eye out for metagrudging behaviour between Orleans and Abo in future.

Hopefully both parties find this to be a agreeable outcome. We'll be leaving this open for another 24 hours like before, incase anything else needs to be said.

Thanks for your patience!

This is fine. You can lock this.

[HouseOfSynth]

Complaint resolved. Locking and Archiving