Mutiny gamemode - open discussion

[Guest]

I've already posted a similar topic in the Aurora Heads of Staff subforum (ohh the elitism) with limited response. I would like everyone's feedback on how to make the Mutiny gamemode more enjoyable for everyone, not just command staff and security.

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I'll just open with a few points:

• Characters should protest to what is going on the station, not just sit back and enjoy yourself while questions like these are going through their head: Why are 30% of the staff being fired? Why are people being executed in virology? Maybe I'm next?
• Security shouldn't be afraid to disobay orders, violation of SoP isn't allowed just because Captain says so and they should demand proof before complying with them. (note: Josh is correct, security isn't always being shit, it's just prevelant)
  
• The directive isn't decrypted perfectly for a reason. It's to give you a choice when choosing a side. Orders are considered non-valid until proven otherwise for game balance.
  
• You don't need to wait to be prompted to pick a side, because only Cap or HM can invite you. They are usually too busy making sure you don't get screwed (or do so badly) to walk to you and invite you into the cool kid club.

 

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Alright, after some ideas and valid criticism, I'll attempt to approximately summerize what people below are saying and add my own conclusions:

2. Security and loyalist forces should refrain themselves from roflstomping mutineers before they take flight, because they are in disadvantage from the start. Chances are, while the Head Mutineer is plotting, the Captain is doing so as well, which they shouldn't since that would be Meta.
4. Pushing for objective will only encourage meta and powergaming, such as: AI spying on the other heads without a valid reason, a single security officer on a holy mission from CentComm crushing everything in his path, mutineers attempting griefy things like bombing the captain or the brig, etc. Try and take it slowly, right now, mutiny doesn't last much longer than 2 hours.
   
6. Captain should go out of his way to spark mutiny, this includes either going beyond the call of duty when executing the directives or simply being a massive asshole.
   
8. For both sides, adding their own flavor of RP and directives into the mix will create different results, good or bad. Many great ideas have been posted down below.
   
10. As Josh1133 said, it's really up to you how you want to play the character, you shouldn't feel obligated to change that for the gamemode to work, but also as Valkrae said, many people play blank slates, without any real motivation or emotions.
    
12. IMHO, if you can't RP a mutineer, don't vote for the gamemode. Yes, its democracy. And no, you're usually responsible for what you vote for. All of you who vote Wizard are horrible people.
    
14. Also going to advise that people try and put aside the fact that mutineering will get your character fired, because this is non-canon, you can literally self-antag for the round if you want, just as long as it isn't grief.
    
16. Minor things like protests, petitions or general misbehavior will improve the atmosphere, the amout of chaos and quality of RP that is happening during the round, without getting you banned or having your character removed from the game.

 

Note: Formal apology to Josh for being outright hostile in my response.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Guest

[josh1133]

I've already posted a similar topic in the Aurora Heads of Staff subforum (ohh the elitism) with limited response. I would like everyone's feedback on how to make the Mutiny gamemode more enjoyable for everyone, not just command staff and security.

I'll just open with a few points:

• [*]Characters should protest to what is going on the station, not just sit back and enjoy yourself while questions like these are going through their head: Why are 30% of the staff being fired? Why are people being executed in virology? Maybe I'm next?

[*]Security shouldn't be afraid to disobay orders, violation of SoP isn't allowed just because Captain says so.

 

Here are a few counter points to the above questions.

1) "Oh dear, 30 or so percent of the crew is getting fired? Oh wait its all xeno? Oh thank god I'm fine." Racism, while a horrible thing, does let me know that when only aliens are getting fired, that my job is secure and while I am sad to see some of my alien friends go, I'm not going to risk my job that I may depend on to survive for someone else unless the aliens are getting beaten down in the middle of the hall.

2) "People being executed in virology, maybe I'm next". ...You don't seem to be thinking about this from the other side. A memo from what we first assume to be Nano just came telling us there is a /deadly disease/ that only these few people have and that we have to execute them /before it spreads to the rest of the crew/. The question is not "Will I be next" No, its "Why don't we kill these fucks now and burn the bodies". Kidding, thats not really the question but it makes the point clear, at no point did I worry that I was going to be executed next because I was told you all had some kind of earslug/skin eating/ liver liquifying disease that could spread. To be honest, its amazing you weren't killed right away with some people on the station, and the only real reason I turned traitor is because Sec started killing people who weren't sick, otherwise I would have stayed loyal.

3) "Sec shouldn't be afraid to go against the Captain" That is not a very fair statement to make, as I seen two HOS's go against the captain, have played both traitor and loyalist as Carton and seen countless officers go to war both verbally and physically over the issues that are presented during mutiny. But at the end of the day when someone dies they go "Oh, Sec never goes against the captain". Its the person's character, whatever choice they make is the choice their character would make and no one has no real right to complain about how someone plays there character unless its a troll character or they are breaking a rule in my opinion.

Just my two cents.

[Cassie]

Characters should protest to what is going on the station, not just sit back and enjoy yourself while questions like these are going through their head: Why are 30% of the staff being fired? Why are people being executed in virology? Maybe I'm next?

Everytime I play mutiny I try this. Protests need to be organized Sadly it usually ends with tragedy while security get so bored they refuse to give you neck space.

Sadly, with the way it's set up. Once you do a protest people will know you're a mutineer, and that ends you in the permabrig or loyalty implanted as blue alert pops up and security busts in with their sprays, flashes and guns. Game over.

If you protest you gotta have weapons or a base to fall back to, if you get caught doing such because the AI has been peeping on you, game over again.

[Guest]

While the Bluespace Pathogen directive can be fun, the other directives I've seen can make for some rather lackluster reactions and results.

I don't see anyone caring about their fellow workers getting terminated when only 2% of the entire crew are, one, female, and two, a non-human. Oh, they just got canned? Oh well, we have another roboticist anyway.

The directives need to have a possibility to afflict the entire crew as a whole and get more people involved in the chaos.

Security being gung-ho "O Captain m'captain" loyalists is rather irritating when it occurs almost 90% of the time. If any other officers show signs of the very slight notion of mutiny, they're going to be stamped out very quickly.

The third point is the opener to how this makes the game mode rather fun. The consistent issue that applies, yet again, is focusing towards general player inability or a want to completely disassociate themselves from the mutiny, provided they don't get gimped with the directive initially.

The fourth point is, yet again, a severe lacking in Heads of Staff that also know how to play as antagonistic, confronting individuals ICly that have the power and sufficient charisma to sway a large portion of the crew to force change.

I don't really blame them for that, as being a Head of Staff usually excludes you from antag roles compared to those who are not Heads. And being a creative antag certainly isn't easy, you're not going to please everyone.

And then there's point four-dash two, regarding the mutual exclusivity of the 'cool kid club.' I remember seeing a Chief Engineer as the head mutineer manage to rouse up the engineers to mutinize and take back the authentication disk for themselves and effectively wi- oh, they just got robusted by security officers in riot armor. And scientists giving them rapid syringe guns with sufficient enough soporific to put down an elephant. And tear gas, of all things.

Though I have not played as a Head of Staff during mutiny, I can say for certain it, one, certainly isn't easy, and two, certainly isn't easy to pull off all of the crazy shit people merely gave half of their total effort to test-drive. But I imagine it's fun as fuck... for the Command staff.

Yes, that's right. Being an effective mutineer requires you to be extremely inclusive with the little soiree that you want cooked up to overthrow the tyrants that are the loyalists. Not doing so seriously hampers your cause and effectively allows for the round to end with the directive gone through as a minor victory for the loyalists, and this is at best what will happen.

This is a game mode where not only micro-management is core, but macro-management is as well. Complexity is what is going to win the round for the mutineers. And the Head mutineers are expected to make a move before it's far too late. Otherwise they just made this into an extended round where a few people have their contracts terminated. Or, three corpses smoking and smouldering in virology.

Oh, yeah, and the amount of power a semi-competent security team has over unarmed crew is utterly immense. SEC either needs to be utterly stupid or make repeated mistakes to not allow for a loyalist victory, provided all of SEC are loyalists.

[Guest]

Right, thank you for your completely constructive input, so, I'll just answer your points and remind you're yet to actually give advice on how to make the gamemode better.

1) & 2) Those were only examples. Not everything has to revolve around your character, if Carton doesn't care, fine. There are many directives that may effect your character in many ways. For example, if 30% of staff are fired, guess what, Carton is loosing his job as well, because the amount of security staff isn't justified anymore. Hell, he would be first off the list due to his blatant mental instability and bad record. Ohh, wait, Carton doesn't care about priniciples? How about the time he mutineed against Elena because she was supporting unethical tests tests on a ling that killed people. Also, there is a slim chance you're infected already, you would prefer to be executed immediatelly just because command is paranoid that you were brought into contact with the infected?

3) Yes, this is a fair point, but keep this in mind: This is probably the only gamemode that you have a free reign to go antag almost any time you want. I have personally seen a trend where security almost exclusively sides with the Captain, hell, the captain takes control of security before HoS is removed and no one thinks something is wrong. Also, siding with the captain who proves to be wrong makes you just as guilty, 'was jsut following orders' isn't applicable in this case.

The overall issue, the one that is plaging Mutiny is that mutineers almost always get fucked within the first hour, which turns the gamemode into an extended round because they never take flight. It's annoying to me because this gamemode has the most potential to create great RP situations, which is something that you, as a person who likes writing should respect. People vote the gamemode and then do jack shit to make it fun. Lack of enthusiasm to make an effort for overall enjoyment.

[josh1133]

Those were only examples. Not everything has to revolve around your character, if Carton doesn't care, fine. There are many directives that may effect your character in many ways. For example, if 30% of staff are fired, guess what, Carton is loosing his job as well, because the amount of security staff isn't justified anymore. Hell, he would be first off the list due to his blatant mental instability and bad record. Ohh, wait, Carton doesn't care about priniciples? How about the time he mutineed against Elena because she was supporting unethical tests tests on a ling that killed people. Also, there is a slim chance you're infected already, you would prefer to be executed immediatelly just because command is paranoid that you were brought into contact with the infected?

 

Oh boy. You know what I really enjoy Bokaza? 2 things. One, when someone assumes I can't look past my own character, and two when someone does the above. So get ready for this shit.

1) Fun fact: I have multiple characters besides Carton, with so few female aliens aliens on the station and being a human male which is usually safe from racism, most of my characters feel they are secure on their jobs. Sorry I'm not crying over the kitty and the lizard getting fired, Racism exist and so does ignorance. I have my own people to take care of and if 4 people on my station (( The usual amount who get fired during these types of rounds)) are getting canned because they have a tail, I'm no where near concerned. I think most people in a realistic situation, if a giant company that owned Nano existed and they had the resources Nano did, the idea of mutiny against them is almost unimaginable, which shockingly is how I play a few of my characters. Your asking them to go against the biggest company in the galaxy and piss them off, that seems like a bad idea for people who he doesn't talk to outside of work. Is it sad? Yes. Is it worth the hell my characters imagine they are going to go through if they get fired/ worse? No. No its not.

2)

For example, if 30% of staff are fired, guess what, Carton is loosing his job as well, because the amount of security staff isn't justified anymore. Hell, he would be first off the list due to his blatant mental instability and bad record.

 

Funny you say that, because while I actually do keep records of everything Carton does, he is no worse then most of security. The only difference is I have him visit a psych and record all the crimes he has committed. I wish more of Sec do this because I have seen so many of them beat prisoners way more then I do when they get angry, but at the start of every shift those damn records are blank. But point is, trying to make Carton look like the worse amoung the crowd because I keep records updated is not gonna work when three other officers like Officer Snyder is in the back curbstomping the Tarajan that asked her why she got arrested.

3)

"Ohh, wait, Carton doesn't care about priniciples? How about the time he mutineed against Elena because she was supporting unethical tests tests on a ling that killed people. Also, there is a slim chance you're infected already, you would prefer to be executed immediatelly just because command is paranoid that you were brought into contact with the infected?"

 

Oh you, lets look at the two scenarios and Ill glady show you how they are different. In one, you were ripping open some alien which was wrong, but it also didn't have my life or anyone besides that Aliens life at risk. But lets also look at that round where the disease was spreading...Robert is his personal friend....asked me to join Loyalist...said yes...watched him Kill you...watched them arrest the Detective trying to set the sick free.....Whats this? Carton freed the detective...tried helping the sick.....Took the captains Disc and hid it....Gasp? My OOC opinion is different then one of my characters Opinions? How can this be?

While Carton would like to live and not get sick since he has people he like to go home too, he did help the sick people despite the many factors that would make him side with the loyalist because he didn't like the execution......so its like...I almost played my character the same as the time with the ling....Its just crazy that I have a different opinion OOC wise. Maybe its because I see some deadly virus and have the natural fear of becoming infected and being the next one executed, the next one who could die some horrible death and never get to go home and say goodbye to the one my character cares about. This being more then Carton, I do have more then one character.

Finally.

 

Right, thank you for your completely constructive input, so, I'll just answer your points and remind you're yet to actually give advice on how to make the gamemode better.

1) & 2) Those were only examples. Not everything has to revolve around your character, if Carton doesn't care, fine.

 

I felt a little personally attacked here because those were my OOC opinions (( I also can be kind of a asshole like Carton)) and do have more characters, I was speaking in the views of normal people, not my character. When a giant company who has unlimited resources can make your life hell for trying to stand up for a few cats and lizards exist, its scary to mutiny. When a deadly disease is spreading amoung the crew, I think one should kill it at its source. It does not mean my characters believe that. So I would kindly thank you if you did not say I cannot look past my own characters, or consider that everything revolves around them, since that is just untrue.

That being said:

 

The overall issue, the one that is plaging Mutiny is that mutineers almost always get fucked within the first hour, which turns the gamemode into an extended round because they never take flight. It's annoying to me because this gamemode has the most potential to create great RP situations, which is something that you, as a person who likes writing should respect. People vote the gamemode and then do jack shit to make it fun. Lack of enthusiasm to make an effort for overall enjoyment.

 

You are correct. There have been a few great moments in Mutiny that could happen every mutiny round if not for the fact that so many are ready to do what I stated my OOC opinion is. While it is human nature to care more for oneself over others, its gotten to the point where it is "It doesn't affect me so its not my concern". You want to get people really fighting against Big Old Nano? Heres a few ideas.

Females being fired:

1) All aliens? Offer them a choice. Work as a Miner or Termination. They will choose miner, so what you do is put collars (( If we had shock collars that would be great)) on them, treat them like prisoners or worse. Parade them through the station, let the entire crew see what happens when Nano thinks you are a problem, and send them on the mining shuttle. From then on, anyone who even talks about them like they are people gets three minutes in the brig, they keep doing it, more brig time. Eventually after the fifth time, just put a collar on them and send them mining.

People will get real mad, real fast.

2) Bluespace: Fun idea, the moment you hear you are going to be executed. Sneeze on everyone around you. Security and medical will surely be around you, and now you just recruited everyone from "Lets kill these fucks" to "Holy shit we need to find a cure" or "This is bullshit". You also just started a war because any Sec/ Head that wasn't sneezed on now wants you locked up or dead, but you have your own army with the same weapons as Sec on your side, maybe if you got a head or two you got a pistol now too. Suddenly its not "Locked in a room for two hours" Rp, its war. If anyone says they aren't infected when you sneezed on them, they are bull shitting you.

3) Aliens: Hunger games: No one but staff ever sees the Fax, so you can have a little fun. Tell them that Nano ordered all the female aliens to be teriminated...But not in the way one would think. Tell them that Nano wants them all dead, but you can save one of them...they just have to fight it out. Now all the racist will be on your side as your making the aliens fight to the death, but everyone else will be in a fucking frenzy because...Your having aliens fight to the death for your entertainment.

4) Bluespace: Old World Blues: So your locked in a room huh? You know what turns most people against the guy trying to kill you? A good sob story. Most of us seem to sympathize with: Mothers. Children. Sick Parents. Newly weds.

Ex 1/2) "Please...at least let me say goodbye to my son...Hes only four and if I'm going to die, let me see his face one more time at least..."

Ex 2/3) "...Oh god...Oh god...If I'm going to die, can someone at least take care of my parents...They won't be able to make it without me"

Ex 4) "Fuck...Fuck...Tell *INSERT WIFE/ HUSBAND NAME HERE* I'm so sorry...tell them I love them"

Notice I never said "Help!", because if one seems to resolve to their fate, it adds a bit more pull on the old heartstrings.

Overall, here is what needs to change. Captains trying to be buddy buddy with the crew so they don't get shanked later in the shift needs to stop, its bullshit. Following the fax to the mark is also boring, a sheet of paper basically just made part of the crew slaves or target practice, fuck with them, do something crazy without killing everyone. Have fun with it.

[Valkrae]

I think how I play Robert is a great example of how people should play heads during Rev and Mutiny.

Robert is a human being, and he has emotions and feelings. That being said, He does what is needed. The round where I killed Elena, and that entire thing happened in the Virology Quarantine? Robert felt extremely guilty. He believed the orders were real, but he didn't want to execute them. He wanted to find a cure. But, as it goes, orders are orders. Robert had to do what he was told. He attempted the executions, and that thing happened.

Wanna know what happened after? Robert was betrayed by Carton, his closest friend, and knew he'd have to face responsibility for what he had done. He walked to the Vault, grabbed a laser rifle, and ended his life.

Many people tend to play a very blank slate character, with no real motives or emotions behind them. That round was a really fun example of a chaotic round that has great RP. Seto had the capability of subverting me early on, but elected to hold his cards. The AI informed me of a discussion that involved gathering weapons. Robert interpreted this as Mutiny, and arrested Seto. Elena and the other infected were carted off to Virology, and we waited.

I executed Elena after a brief firefight with the detective, and other mutineers. Carton betrayed me shortly after, stunning me and taking the disc.

[Guest]

Moved to appropriate sub-forum.

[josh1133]

I am now home from school, so here is some more ideas for what you can do during fire this certain sex/ alien round and Bluespace rounds:

Bluespace: (( Some of these are really...out there, but could still be fun))

"AND SOON, AURORA WILL BURN!"- Maybe this disease isn't what we are imagining it, maybe one round it isn't this contagious deadly disease but instead has driven these people insane? Now not only will a psych have tons of RP, but we could have people who play characters who have a real mental break down ((Which is good in itself)) but maybe we could have this just hilarious and crazy round where we all embrace our inner crimson crow. Some of the people could take up super hero persona's and other could take up Super Villain persona's and the only cure for these people is for the crew to play along? I mean, that's not "Mutiny" but you can't tell me that wouldn't be a interesting round? Maybe it doesn't have to be Super Hero's and Super villains, maybe they think they are in the Thunder dome, maybe they are in Atlantis, or a magical city, or they see Seal people taking over the station, literally anything. It's like the changelings hallucinations, but it can be fun for everyone.

and Honestly.

You can't tell me that some person you work with every day coming over comms talking about taking over Aurora with his evil plan like he is the Joker wouldn't be slightly hilarious?

On a more serious note:

"...W-w-was that your skin?"- This disease becomes...more apparent..Skin starts falling off...Pus from the wounds, screams of agony as people /litterally/ fall apart in front of you. Now you might say "Oh josh, but that will help the loyal people!" While this is true, we can say CC sent a cure...but there is a catch. One has to /touch/ them....and there is only so much cure, there might not be enough for everyone, how do you decide who gets the cure? Who touches these sick people and by doing it...do you get the cure too? Or do you die so others may live? Do you let the sick die so the healthy may live? There is a lot people could do with this one, but it comes down to who gets the cure, if the cure is used and what to do from there.

(( Just for story sake, say that gloves and hardsuits and all that jazz doesn't work or something...otherwise it be too easy, no? No fun when no moral problems))

"How could you?"- Through a investigation that the crew can do, they learn that the disease is actually a chemical weapon made by the syndicate, and the only way to get the cure is to track this person down (( Who admins can pick or something)) and have them hand over the cure (( This can be RP'd out, since this seems like a lot of coding for one round)). The key here is a investigation, with clues from CC to tell them that something is up with this disease, and maybe a list of suspects, things like that. Sure, its not Loyal vs Mutiny anymore but it be interesting to see some investigating done?

Xeno related incidents-

Hunger games- Winner keeps their job, pretty easy. Put them all on the mining station, make the crew watch, if that doesn't spark a revolution then ya crew is racist as fuck.

"Didn't I read this somewhere...."- Put posters up, add a law to the AI to make it spout Propaganda about how great Nano is, find the most loyal members of Sec and promote them to "The captain's guard" or some shit. Then...slowly start taking the Xeno, make it quick and erase all their records. Make it seem like they never existed..Someone ask where they went, respond "Who?". Put them on the mining station, no comms. Take everything that could be dangerous except pick axes and have a guard watching over them, making sure they mine until their hands break. People start asking too many questions? Miner. Eventually people will see through the propaganda and fear ((Hopefully)) and revolt.

Ill update this when its not 2 am in the morning and Im not exhausted.

[Guest]

Though I have not played as a Head of Staff during mutiny, I can say for certain it, one, certainly isn't easy, and two, certainly isn't easy to pull off all of the crazy shit people merely gave half of their total effort to test-drive. But I imagine it's fun as fuck... for the Command staff.

 

Actually, remember that one custom rev round that you captained as Vira? Well, I think that was pretty much bluespace contagent. That round was what made me stay on this server. A few well placed triggers, good RP and some brutality on your part turned the station into a clusterfuck of laser fire, blood and violence. It was epic RP gold.

I was the scientist that threatened to blow Vira up with a fake granade on that catwalk near engineering, then proceeded to spark mutiny over the comms. I think it was Essel and some other doctor (whose name I don't remember) that let us out of virology without even being revs, were critical to how it turned out. I mean, they weren't some cancer that wanted to destroy NT, they were simply doctors with their oath and good intent. Then while on the outpost, when you offered the engineer a way out if he turned me, Inis and himself in, a fight broke out. My characters said that they would be executed the moment they step on the station, the engineer wanted to take save Inis (RPing a sick person) and took the chance. It was a fight to the death, a FFA. We literally fucked the outpost beyond recognition during the fight.

The funny thing is, we didn't need a head mutineer to direct a surgical strike against the captain. We just needed people willing to think for themselves and get a motivation to mutiny. Overal motivation was sentiment that crew were being treated as cattle. This is what I think mutiny should be, a non-antag RP revolution.

Note: I've updated the first post to add more detailed nots, please say if you think I've missed something.

[Frances]

Sadly, with the way it's set up. Once you do a protest people will know you're a mutineer, and that ends you in the permabrig or loyalty implanted as blue alert pops up and security busts in with their sprays, flashes and guns. Game over.

That's playing to win. People like that can be ahelped about, and these behaviors should be curbed.

[Blue]

Mutiny has the same problems rev had. You got heads being literally Hitler, with a crew that consists of pacifists for the most part. The ones that *can* fight back are usually afraid to do so with security cracking down on them. People get upset that sec is allowed to be corrupt, people vote for transfer the minute they can, and OOC is filled with hate.

[Guest]

Idea for new thing to revolt about. All security are to be fired and shoved to do labor, random crew are selected to be the new security

[Blue]

Idea for new thing to revolt about. All security are to be fired and shoved to do labor, random crew are selected to be the new security

Too many people just let command push them around though.

[Guest]

That is one of the biggest problems.

The Fire all aliens directive, every time, every time, the crew go submissive and let the captain demote them (Half the objective is done, the loyalists are guaranteed atleast half a victory there) then the fights and arguments happen to stop them using the device.

You need to refuse from the start. Don't let the demotions happen. I remember one round where I told the Head Mutineer to stop the demotions happening, the HM was the one who went to that crew member and asked for their ID to demote them. I mean what?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

strange, both times i played mutiny these past few days, Once with Lux and second time with Avery in charge of security, we stormed the Captains office, placed the captain in holding until transfer and ended the round in 2 hours.

Second time cap and Avery literally had a showdown, Avery won and cap SSD'd, it was the first time i even saw the captain that shift. Mutiny just seems like "WHO WILL SEC JOIN WITH?" gamemode. Wish more players other then Sec had bigger agency

[Chaznoodles]

I think it's just the fact that, as soon as the HoS scents what the Captain's doing, he recruits and arms all of Security and attacks the Captain. This seems to be the first thought, rather than leaving it to a buildup.

[witchbells]

Idea for new thing to revolt about. All security are to be fired and shoved to do labor, random crew are selected to be the new security

 

I really, really like this idea. If anything, because it'll end up being a rag-tag team of vigilantes who don't know what they're doing and shouldn't be holding a taser.

[VoltageHero]

I think it's just the fact that, as soon as the HoS scents what the Captain's doing, he recruits and arms all of Security and attacks the Captain. This seems to be the first thought, rather than leaving it to a buildup.

 

I've noticed this happening a few times too, which is amazingly annoying as well.

It seems that people, in an attempt to stop letting the loyalists win all the time, have gone to the polar opposite.