Rework EMP's

[Nantei]

Right, so EMP's as a solution to IPC's/other Synthetics are a rather clumsy and unfun magic bullet. Being stunned for five seconds by an ion rifle isn't great, being killed in two hits from an ion rifle is even less great. Shells already cannot realistically wear helmets, leaving them pretty damn weak to weapons fire as is. If you are using lethal weapons, shells are probably disadvantaged in the long term. 

You might ask why that is relevant? The answer is because the Ion Rifle is often only pulled out when lethal weapons are similarly an option. Because you are moving to the armory. Now, I understand currently ions are necessary as a method to stun IPC's so they don't have to be straight killed. I get that. But it doesn't have to be that way.

So here is my suggestion: Lethal ion rifles do dramatically less damage to Synthetics, make them on par with a laser rifle. They bypass armor already, so that's already very good as an anti-synthetic weapon. No need for it to just mulch an IPC in two hits with delimbs to spare. If possible we could have it still do strong damage to exosuits if that's desired. Alternatively, have lethal do no damage, but it drains batteries and blinds the IPC.

Stun on ion rifle should be replaced with a blind. A blind that bypasses armor is already extremely strong, there's no need for it to outright stun IPC's.

 

Kyres' rework project may take quite awhile, so this could work as a temporary stopgap while we wait for a more permanent rebalance.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Nantei

[kyres1]

See above. Countless nerfs in relation to EMP immunity are present on that rework.

[Nantei]

I love it. Thank you.

[Kaed]

 

2 hours ago, Nantei said:

So here is my suggestion: Lethal ion rifles do dramatically less damage to Synthetics, make them on par with a laser rifle. They bypass armor already, so that's already very good as an anti-synthetic weapon. No need for it to just mulch an IPC in two hits with delimbs to spare. If possible we could have it still do strong damage to exosuits if that's desired. 

Stun on ion rifle should be reduced to two or three seconds of stun, depending on how long the actual current stun is. I feel like the current stun is pretty much an immediate game over for any IPC. And an IPC that is armed and armored enough to require an ion rifle should not be that easy to take down.

Let the tasers and batons buildup as it 'jams' up the IPC's servos. Have it respect equipment coefficients still. Essentially agony damage, but not in terms of mechanical function. The IPC's greatest strength is conventional pain does not apply to them. This lets officers still detain under-equipped traitor IPC's without having to turn them into mulch. IPC's still have their no pain, but enough sustained non-lethal fire takes them down long enough to cuff. This seems like a fair compromise to me, and a dramatic improvement to magic bullet combat. 

 

 

EDIT: Kyres already has a really great rework project for this, refer to his thread.

Mmmmn... A rework is somewhat larger in scope and term than the very simple change that you're proposing, and it might be worth implementing something like this in the near future has a stopgap.

And I'm mostly responding here because.. Well, my normal mindset is that a dead synth is best kind of synth, I unfortunately had a recent experience that left me sort of sour towards ions. I think you in fact were that IPC traitor detective last night that got captured and disabled after fleeing through a portal, in fact.

For an IPC you were particularly non-irritating and I actually got a little bit of fun watching your antics from afar, given how boring the round had been before that.

So I found myself a little bit miffed when that Necro officer went and executed you with the ion cannon in a single shot before I could even finish type in my reassurance that no one was going to kill you. :/

His immediate surrender to detainment for half an hour for automacide was significantly less interesting than whatever would have happened with you I'm sure, and I would really like the chance to be able to stop someone from doing that again, before I even have time to react.

TL;dr - being able to kill ipc's this quickly as harmful to more than just the people who are playing the IPC, some people would like to be able to role-play instead of having to deal with a sudden execution by a random jerk.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Kaed

[Nantei]

26 minutes ago, Kaed said:

Mmmmn... A rework is somewhat larger in scope and term than the very simple change that you're proposing, and it might be worth implementing something like this in the near future has a stopgap.

That's actually a great point. I was going to delete this thread, but I will keep it up and change a few things with that in mind.

Also that officer regretted doing it after the fact, I know them. But it is the round that inspired this thread.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Nantei

[Carver]

If I was to ever offer a solution it'd be to make EMP less inherently lethal but allow halloss damage to work on IPCs. Logic being that, if they can be shocked, they can be tased.

[Nantei]

2 hours ago, Carver said:

If I was to ever offer a solution it'd be to make EMP less inherently lethal but allow halloss damage to work on IPCs. Logic being that, if they can be shocked, they can be tased.

I actually love Kyres' idea of making it blind and damage the eyes. It's dramatically better than getting ghetto blasted to death by it. Getting chain stunned sucks, chain blinded is way less bad.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Nantei

[Carver]

10 minutes ago, Nantei said:

I actually love Kyres' idea of making it blind and damage the eyes. It's dramatically better than getting ghetto blasted to death by it. Getting chain stunned sucks, chain blinded is way less bad.

Truthfully I'd assumed it already blinded IPCs, seeing as it (permanently) blinds people with augmented/cybernetic eyes. I still stand by having a more accessible method to floor the fuckers though so one needn't bust out the armoury's ion rifle.

[IAmCrystalClear]

Delayed response, but we've been moving away from instant stuns and take-downs for a while now. The Ion rifle is currently the instant response takedown for IPCs, Bound Synths, Emagged Drones, RIGS, Mechsuits, and any and all laser weapons.

Unlike laser fire and ballistics, the only counter-measures to an ion require you to be an antag. It is an instant, AOE takedown that can permanently remove IPCs and Synths alike due to the extreme overkill. It's easy to click twice and kill them by accident. The Ion gun is the only gun in the game that I consider the "non-lethal" mode of to actually be lethal. Out of all the rounds it has been used on me, perhaps one or two have not lead to me dying, being stuck in crit, or otherwise disabled for the remainder of the round.