BurgerBB Negligence of Orders as Synthetic - 12/20/2019

[UnknownMurder]

Response to ShesTrying's decision. 

49 minutes ago, ShesTrying said:

UnknownMurder, you were a malf AI on a somewhat staff-strained round. Just because you tried to get gimmicks across, doesn't create escalation.

I acknowledge this statement. I believed I was very sure that my gimmicks were across, but it seems from a staff perspective reading the log that crew did not see my shotgun barrage gimmicks attempting to get through hitting any of the targets. I believed I already had hit a target with the following reasoning in the next block that I saw fit for more escalation rather keeping it quiet some more and letting the round end without knowing there was a Malfunctioning AI until end of the round stat. 

54 minutes ago, ShesTrying said:

If the crew had no idea what you were doing, of their own volition or not, you need to bear that in mind before escalating so much. 

I must inform you that I had thought the security whilst in Medical Bay knew what I was doing based on Cheshire's PDA message to me with medical witnesses, the summarized message of Cheshire's PDA communication to me is "We've been found out!". In a response to this, I've made an announcement of synthetic takeover was the beginning of my escalation to move onto the crew. Security was already shooting up a crisis module synthetic unit. 

 As a response to Burger's critics on ShesTrying's decision. 

24 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

And I ahelped it. I ahelped it and the admin said he couldn't deal with it at the time and told me to make a complaint, which I did.

You made a ban request when you were told to make a player complaint, I will defend myself as this is an obvious attack to me. I remembering asking to clarify what SonicGotNuked meant in AOOC by "make a complaint".

3 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

Like, you even admitted that the AI escalated improperly. Why should I as a cyborg listen to an AI who is telling me to break rules?

You wouldn't be punished if I were the one responsible for everything (in fact I wasn't), you have no right to subtly backseat moderate based on either OOC information or metagame. Really, complaint is about you, not about me. I have so much IC justification and saw whole thing fold, you did not. You relied on the LOOC chit chat and used that as your only evidence to say I had a bad escalation while I had the whole communication and even eavesdropped on the Head of Security to get more understanding of how my actions causing what consequences. You thought it was me, but it was you, Dio!

23 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

The only order I didn't follow was "kill x" which I didn't do until later in the round because of escalation issues.

On 22/12/2019 at 22:12, UnknownMurder said:

Once again, to set this dangerous precedent for the future can create disorder and gives the players able to restrict their master for instance a thrall refusing to follow the vampire because it "may be rulebreaking" or "i saw no justification and therefore I refuse (while vampire saw a whole bigger picture and has a reason to justify but doesn't want to sit and explain everything at a dangerous time)". 

54 minutes ago, ShesTrying said:

Ignoring orders because you OOCly don't agree with them isn't acceptable-- you will be noted for the failure to follow orders.

BurgerBB has confessed to disobeying orders repetitively and claims that he does not see enough justification while I saw a larger picture justification to make a move. You already confessed to refusing to leave the engine damaged and proceeded to fix it and undo every of my actions because of your narrow OOC perspective. Ergo, Ignoring orders because you OOCly don't agree with them isn't acceptable-- you will be noted for the failure to follow orders. I see no contradiction here, everything flows with what she ShesTrying trying to say to you. 

[BurgerBB]

I am not talking to you anymore dude. I am talking to the admins who made this verdict. Your claims that I'm trying to attack you are absolutely infuriating and I am not sifting through all that just to read further lies and misconceptions. Like jesus dude.

 

To the dealing admins, the more I re-read the verdict the more issues I find with it which is why I now have 3 posts made in response to it. Where does it say that "You are an extension of the AI and are required to do anything it asks (within reason)." only applies to lawed borgs? How did you come to this conclusion? Where would I be made aware of this fact?

Why was "ahelping a bad AI and then reluctantly following orders because the orders were against the rules" butchered down to "Ignoring orders because you OOCly don't agree with them"? Did you expect me to follow the orders and risk a ban for improper escalation? You straight up admitted here that it was improper escalation on the AIs part which is 100% against the rules. Are players expected to follow the commands of those in charge of them even if it breaks the rules?

If I followed the orders the AI gave without adding a delay, I would've gotten a player complaint against me, which would also have been resolved like this stating "While you were following orders, you shouldn't break escalation rules. You were given a warning and a note in the past for this behavior, so a ban will be applied." or something along the lines of it.

Just consider my options here and the very likely outcomes:

Option One: Listen to the AI and do as they say without question. Upset 10+ people for locking down departures and starting a firefight with the HoS who had jack shit for weapons. Risk a ban for being a part of poor escalation because of my previous warning on the matter as well as several notes I've gotten on the same thing they were ordering me to do. Have people argue that I've done this before and knew that it was wrong to do. Have Godwin's law invoked many times even though I use the defense "I was just following orders."

Option Two: Listen to the AI, but escalate for them. Upset 1 person while I smooth the round out for the rest of the crew. Risk a ban for not listening to AI.

Option Three: Cryo because I'm sick of it all. Upset 1 person because I left them when they needed me. Have the AI make a complaint against me because I am unable to prove that I handle being antag. Admins agree because cryoing as an important role is generally against the rules unless told to admins. Since there were no admin that I could tell, they'd say that just note me the same here for leaving.

 

I regret not doing option three, but I do not think I should get any notes at all or anything for that matter for doing this. What I did was the best possible outcome for others.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pratepresidenten]

So the ugly truth of malf is that you, as a borg, can go fuck yourself half the time. The AI is the primary antagonist, and as such, it can use its unquestionably loyal slaves to further its goals without much care for their well-being. Now, that doesnt mean it can just order you to your death 4noraisins, because that would break rule #1.

A slaved malfborg should only care what its master wants, and execute its command to the absolute best of its ability. And I fail to see this happen here at all.

It is NOT your job to provide interesting roleplay and fun for people. That is on the AI, and you should enforce its will.
It is NOT your job to question if an order from the AI is valid. You are its slave, do as you're told.
It is NOT your job to circumvent your orders and do what YOU think is best. Again, do as you're told.
You are NOT the judge of what gimmick is good or valid. You sit on a FRACTION of the information the AI does.
The AI does not need YOUR permission for anything. Slaves have no rights, do as you're god damn told.

That being said, I get the festering shitpool of distress and worry that might have happened as no staff was there to help you out, but I find it greatly concerning that you find it hard to follow basic rules of escalation with each order given without being given explicit permission by staff to do things the AI told you to.

I really dont know what else to tell you here. If shit like this happens and staff is fucking gone, go to cryo. Noone will fault you for dodging an unnecessary shitfest and dumbass complaints such as this one.

If everything is shit, and noone can help you. Walk. Away.

 

Perhaps UM was a shitmalf, but not shit enough to warrant administrative action.
You, however, broke the rules, and for such, you will recieve a note.

 

The complaint is considered resolved, and I will axe it tomorrow.
If you disagree with it, you know the way to the staff complaint section.

[BurgerBB]

Okay. Let me answer this because it seems like this wasn't being answered.

 

What orders did I not follow?

Also what rules, specifically, did I break?

Edited December 30, 2019 by BurgerBB

[Pratepresidenten]

On 20/12/2019 at 11:31, BurgerBB said:

Here are the orders I did not follow:

- Kill xyz: I saw no justification for this. I saw 0 motivation to do this. People, especially engineers, were absolutely upset that all this was happening in looc to the point where some cryo'd. Many people were unhappy about the round, which is why I didn't want to make it worse for people.

You must maintain character at ALL TIMES. No suiciding to leave the round (ghost or use cryogenic storage), and no random grief at round end. Avoid chucklefucking. You are slaved to the AI. Do as you're told.

Additionally, keep your character's goals in mind. For example, as security, during a traitor round, your goal is not to catch traitors, but ensure the safety of the station and provide assistance as needed. Again, slaved to the AI. Do. As. You're. Told.

And from the synth wiki:
As a Cyborg, you are a type of Station-bound synthetic designed to serve the crew of the NSS Aurora, much like the station's AI. You are an extension of the AI and are required to do anything it asks (within reason). <---- The "Within reason" part does not apply to malfborgs.

 

So take your pick!

[BurgerBB]

Check logs. I actually engaged in combat with the HoS. I did not follow the orders when they were given, but 3 minutes later on the shuttle I tried following them.

[Pratepresidenten]

Yes you engaged them, with a screwdriver. And yknow, not with the crisis module as you were ordered to.

And with that. Complaint concluded.

Locking and archiving.