Tomiix Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 Currently, it is really easy to meme, even accidentally, a cyborg. While the rules against power gaming should apply to most instances of these tactics to disable a borg, I feel that they still need a buff for things to just make better sense. I am proposing the following changes. Crowbars should not be able to pry a borg while the user is in intents harm/grab/disarm. This is a buff to the crowbar, as you can now use it to attack borgs. This is a nerf to prying, as you can be more easily bullied while in help intent. Borgs should not be able to be pryed open while they are powered and in harm intent. Borgs have limited ability to combat external threats outside their few tools they get to have at a time. While they are in harm intent, their hatch should lock down so that it cannot be pryed open, to prevent tampering giving a similar message to doors with security motors. If you ion them and make them lose their power, I can see the argument for then being able to open it, as it can no longer resist you. You should not be able to open the hatch while the borg has a shield. I am not sure if this is actually doable, but this was relaid to me by a borg main, and if it is then this just doesn't make sense point blank.
GreenBoi Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 Crowbars can no longer instantly open your hatch and takes time to do. Fine with a harm-intent click damaging the borg chassis, but everything probably isn't needed.
Carver Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 This is actually a fairly significant nerf to borgs as it means you have to kill them to do anything to them, there's no more capturing otherwise.
Tomiix Posted February 5, 2020 Author Posted February 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Carver said: This is actually a fairly significant nerf to borgs as it means you have to kill them to do anything to them, there's no more capturing otherwise. I'm not really sure how often good faith capturing happens in rounds that you would want to disable a borg. While moreso my ancedotal experience is that you simply pull the cell and throw the Borg in robotics to sit for the rest of the round. Furthermore, I can't think of a situation where you would be okay to remove their cell during a combat situation. If the Borg is fighting back in any way, and you pull a cell, that is considered power gaming.
Carver Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 Just now, Tomiix said: I'm not really sure how often good faith capturing happens in rounds that you would want to disable a borg. While moreso my ancedotal experience is that you simply pull the cell and throw the Borg in robotics to sit for the rest of the round. Yes, because Robotics is the one who ICly handle the issue of malfunctioning stationbounds? Depending on circumstance and the personal ability of the roboticist, you're often likely to get out faster than someone who was brigged. 1 minute ago, Tomiix said: Furthermore, I can't think of a situation where you would be okay to remove their cell during a combat situation. If the Borg is fighting back in any way, and you pull a cell, that is considered power gaming. Is it powergaming to stun someone whilst they're fighting back, then cuff them? No, don't be fucking ridiculous. If that were the case then every combat would be a death match.
Tomiix Posted February 5, 2020 Author Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Carver said: Is it powergaming to stun someone whilst they're fighting back, then cuff them? No, don't be fucking ridiculous. If that were the case then every combat would be a death match. The difference is that you can survive being hit with a stun, and can even win the situation. If you pry a borg during combat you will get boinked because it's not reasonable to be able to do that during a combat situation.
Carver Posted February 5, 2020 Posted February 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Tomiix said: The difference is that you can survive being hit with a stun, and can even win the situation. If you pry a borg during combat you will get boinked because it's not reasonable to be able to do that during a combat situation. If you survive being hit by a stun, chances are your opponent is fairly awful at combat. Borg-prying is currently and will likely remain the only way to capture a borg without killing them directly. Ion is not a viable sole method seeing as a single ion rifle exists on the map (To which would be equivalent to arguing a need for the hypospray or syringe gun in every fight against an organic in order to secure a capture), and any AI worth it's salt during malf will see that rifle destroyed in very short order if they intend on going loud. The flash-ID-bar move is a melee range combo that only Roboticists and others with appropriate access (Or cryptographic sequencers) can pull off, specifically requiring a flash or the rare EMP weapon.
Chada1 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 'borgs do need some changes but mostly in the area of QOL and I plan to address that in a future PR. This is mostly stuff like outright removing the whole 'Perma disabled' 'borg problem, either via making 'borgs able to ghost at no cost when disabled and then re-enter their body or some other funky stuff.
Carver Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 Letting them retain the ability to talk locally would certainly be an improvement, as well as some form of time limit on the no power alert emote to prevent spamming.
Chada1 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Carver said: Letting them retain the ability to talk locally would certainly be an improvement, as well as some form of time limit on the no power alert emote to prevent spamming. If I were going to do that I'd just fully revert the PR that removed AI PM for disabled 'borgs (ON the talking part) Edited February 6, 2020 by Chada1
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