Crispy, crispy hue-mhan.

[Hackie]

What's this 'bout?

Basically, dousing a person in fuel and lighting them on fire, doesn't really burn them or dispose of much evidence. As a traitor after murdering someone, generally I burn the body as it's good roleplay. Right now, I'm pretty sure burning a body doesn't do anything but cause burn damage. I think there should be a big consequence to this, making them unable to be cloned, hiding certain information in autopsies. This fixes some issues as traitors, I mean, after you leave someone burning in a bathroom stall for 30+ minutes, usually you can't really recover much from them. Now, this isn't something quick or instant, your chicken has to be in the oven for a while before it's ready to eat. Maybe for, ten minutes straight of burning before the body becomes completely unrecoverable? It makes life easier for traitors.

[Susan]

Any mechanic that renders anyone uncloneable is crap. You shouldn't be trying to permakill people.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Maybe not permadeath (but I mean if your corpse was neglected for a full 10 minutes you're probably a mouse or logged by now) but burning corpses removing evidence would be great.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The thing is, corpses don't actually burn that good. It's why investigators can identify the bodies recovered from out of control building fires and plane crashes. Generally, those corpses become unidentifiable because something else was burning along with them, something that burned gooder. Like jet fuel or heavy wood beams. Gasoline, and by extension whatever welder fuel is, would burn off fast, leaving a heavily charred and mutilated corpse, but not one that wouldn't be able to be ID'd and cloned.

[Hackie]

Even if it left them clonable, my point stands, making evidence disappear like swoosh.

[Guest Menown]

Like jet fuel or heavy wood steel beams.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Like jet fuel or heavy wood steel beams.

 

Beams don't melt steel jets.

Also, I think if someone went through the trouble of dousing someone with a flammable liquid then hid the corpse effectively that it went hidden for 10 minutes, they should be rewarded with forensics on the body poofing, not immediately being caught because of a fiber miraculously escaping the blaze.

[enkas]

Still.. At least the plasma fire could do such an effect.

[mrimatool]

It should be all about risk vs reward, it's risky to burn a corpse and keep it undiscovered for ten minutes straight as well as not setting off atoms alarms. So surely the reward should be equal.

[Susan]

There is no risk involved in setting someone on fire. It doesn't trigger atmos alarms, or make the room hotter, or even make any gasses. It just causes burn damage and a sprite update.

Stuff them somewhere no one will ever find them, light them on fire, and bam. No one will ever find them because fire doesn't do anything but give you burn damage.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

There is no risk involved in setting someone on fire. It doesn't trigger atmos alarms, or make the room hotter, or even make any gasses. It just causes burn damage and a sprite update.

Stuff them somewhere no one will ever find them, light them on fire, and bam. No one will ever find them because fire doesn't do anything but give you burn damage.

 

There is always a risk in killing someone.

[Susan]

So, what. Because killing someone runs the risk of getting caught all evidence should just magically disappear...?

Burning flesh stinks. Burning things make smoke. Burning things are easy to find on a closed circuit air system. However, because the burn mechanic was not intended to do anything outside of causing damage, none of these facts are taken into account. Setting someone on fire only does burn, husks them, and puts a burning sprite on them. There is no additional risk involved beyond what exists from you choosing to kill them to begin with.

Setting someone on fire does not impact anything except the corpse, and it only husks it. I am wholeheartedly against fire doing anything more because it burns infinitely, which it wouldn't realistically do, and you can literally stuff a burning body in a closet in maintenance for 30 minutes without any adverse effects on the environment or even the slightest hint that something is wrong by anyone observing the closet with the burning body stuffed inside.

[Hartburry]

Hakra approves of this change.

[mrimatool]

Instead of just constantly being anti-antagonist can we just address the problem.

Sue's issue is that fire doesn't work correctly in the code. Maybe that should be fixed and then we can burn evidence? Yes pls mr tool

[mrimatool]

Instead of just constantly being anti-antagonist can we just address the problem.

Sue's issue is that fire doesn't work correctly in the code. Maybe that should be fixed and then we can burn evidence? Yes pls mr tool

[Vanagandr]

Instead of just constantly being anti-antagonist can we just address the problem.

Sue's issue is that fire doesn't work correctly in the code. Maybe that should be fixed and then we can burn evidence? Yes pls mr tool

Sue's issue is that fires make smoke, soot and stink, and burning bodies make melted fat and ridiculous stink, and fires in enclosed spaces are even worse, and none of these features are part of the game and it ruins her immershunz enough already without this new atrocity added.

Making fires add soot to things probably wouldn't be too difficult codewise. Making flesh melt, dunno.

We don't have a mechanic for smells, though, and I'm not sure how it could be implemented, though it would no doubt add to arr-pee and make Tajaran security officers especially valuable.

*sniff* "smells like Chloral, arrest Chemist"

*sniff* "sweat, leather and metal - either a heavy metal band or an Engineer, and neither should be in the Armoury"

*sniff* "I can smell Plasma, we should probably get out of here"

*sniff* "ozone and scorched hair - somecat tried hacking this door without dem yellows"

*sniff* "ogod someone splashed capsaicin everywhere ow ow ow ow ow"

...yes, might add a lot - maybe an occasional message of the strongest smell in the tile, with a 'sniff' verb for more detail? Dunno.

Certainly it'd give people more reason to actually use showers and the laundry if certain activities - ex. wearing hardsuits, vomiting, getting blood all over yourself - made you stink. And made you aware of how much you stink. And made your workmates comment on how much you need to go and wash.

[mrimatool]

Yeah that would be nice, what I was saying is while the suggestion to be able to do naughty things like melt evidence and bodies is fun fun. I don't think we should discount the idea just because our code is a little bit lacking, we should try to fix the problem(make fire more realistic) and then implement it.

[Susan]

I'm not against it because of 'immersions', I'm against it because all of those things I said would be downsides to burning bodies. But they don't exist. There is literally no downside to setting someone on fire.

You can stuff a burning corpse into a closet and have it sit there for 30 minutes with no indicator that anything is wrong.

I also don't like anything that 'destroys' evidence. Arson forensics are a thing, and just because something was set on fire doesn't mean you can't tell anything about what happened. Coroners can and do gleam cause of death from burned bodies, are capable of determining if burning was post or perimortem, cloth remnants remain, etc etc.

Antags shouldn't be utterly destroying evidence or making people uncloneable. That's not interesting or engaging. Sec just gets to sit on their hands while everyone burns bodies because hey deletes evidence. It's not fun for anyone except the antag so he can go unopposed on his murder spree.

[Guest]

What Sue said, really. Anything that cuts investigation or forensics out of the RP equation because "lol mechanics", and stops security from following up on anything because, oh, apparently you can't find evidence on a singed cadaver that's still peeling off.

This mechanic would remove a lot of meaningful forensics fun that security relies heavily on to even do anything.