Staff Complaint, Dea Tacita, TishinaStalker.

[Guest]

BYOND Key: Inverted_Rectum

Staff BYOND Key: TishinaStalker, Dea Tacita

Reason for complaint: Stated below.

Evidence/logs/etc:This, mostly.

Additional remarks: I would have been perfectly content playing my spacemen in peace, but considering the length you've gone to try to stop me from having fun, It almost seems rude not to continue this bizzare internet blood feud.

On the 12th of February this year, I decided to submit a second whitelist application for one of my characters after a ridiculously long argument against an undoubtedly unfair regulation lead to the denial of my first one. I was told by TishinaStalker to correct this application and make it more serious, I did that. Then, this application recieved endorsements from the community, two of those endorsements belonging to staff members. Regardless, after having it sit forgotten with the [Author attention needed] tag stuck to it for 6 days, TishinaStalker finally graced me with their presence, denying my application. I was then told that TishinaStalker and Dea Tacita had decided that I, OOCly am not cut out to be put in an IC position, pointing out that I put a joke as one of my reasons to be whitelisted, and that my reason could be summarized as me simply wanting to have a whitelist.After pointing out numerous applications which had a reason similliar, or identical to wanting to be whitelisted just for the sake of it (Which by the way is an entirely valid reason, I'd just like to point that out) and applications which much like mine contained jokes, Tishinastalker dismissed the flaws I pointed out in their ruling and instead insisted I make an entirely new application. After waiting 6 days to finally get their attention on the one subforum they're supposed to be managing only to get a half assed sudden denial due to a vague undetermined reason and being told to go ahead and try doing it again, I accused Tishinastalker and Dea Tacita of denying my application based on their dislike of me after a certain heated argument, as I couldn't think of any other reason why someone would be so adamant to deny my application after a long waiting period, just to tell me to make one all over again, and asked them if I am to believe if I made another application they wouldnt just deny it for the sake of the odd grudge they've decided to hold for me. Our argument stopped at that point, with TishinaStalker claiming my accusations are untrue and that they wouldnt hold this against me.

Despite the shoddy excuse I was presented with, I decided to put a little trust in TishinaStalker and Dea Tacita. I made a second application, rather than a complaint here, the second application was vastly superior to the first one.

Rather than accepting it, this time I was confronted by Dea Tacita who listed three reasons why she wouldn't accept my application.

The first of those reasons was the argument I had been told was not going to be held against me. While I understand how unbelievable that claim is, she could have at least pretended it was true, just for the sake of courtesy. The second reason was of course, the big lore argument.

The third, and only valid reason listed as to why my application wouldnt be accepted, as those were undoubtedly bad things I had done in the past was also handled poorly, with every single one of my notes since I started playing here quite some time ago being made public, from the slightest shenanigens to actual IC problems I have since stopped causing.

Even faced with this pretty obvious personal attack (The first two reasons being "You criticized me and my friends!"), I decided to go along with this bizzare inquisition, and answered the question with the least hostility I can manage, considering how far the Staff members in question had gone just so they can argue with me. The response I recieved was a long rant on a subject I asked Dea Tacita not to raise because it was irrelevant to my application. Finally, instead of straight up refusing my application Dea Tacita decided to say she "intended" to accept it, had I not fallen into her clever Snafu - the reasons didnt matter, all that mattered is how I respond to having them plop in front of me, as if we were engaged in some sort of ridiculous chess game.Even this bit of villain monologue wasn't enough, after bullying me around on both application Dea Tacita and Tishinastalker decided to wait 12 days untill gracing me with the sight of a middle finger.

I'd call that beating a dead horse, but in truth the horse died with Dea Tacita's second post.The belated "Fuck you" could be considered grinding the horse's dessicated corpse into a fine powder and then snorting it in hopes of getting high off your own hatred.

I mean, there's just your garden variety assholery and then there's this. While I certainly dislike some people in the community I cant think of anything that could possibly motivate or justify me shitting on them this hard, and this is coming from the guy who uses the description of a distended anal orifice as a username.

[Tenenza]

So, if you don't mind, could I ask you to clarify this whole complaint?

Because, you've dumped everything into the Additinal remarks section, which not only makes it a bit harder to read, but also makes it unclear as to what exactly ou are focusing the complaint regarding.

Because, it currently seems like you're accusing Dea Tacita and TishinaStalker of deliberately inhibiting your whitelist out of a personal grudge against you.

Is that the primary intent of this complaint?

[Dea Tacita]

I'm going to start out with this.

Other than his whitelist applications, and a single experience with Haruspex (Which was awesome). I've had no interaction with Inverted, Now that I've said that, lets proceed!

 

was told by TishinaStalker to correct this application and make it more serious

 

That indeed was the reason your first application was denied, we judged that you didn't take it seriously at all and indeed, you put "Because all the cool kids have it" as your reason for wanting the white-list. You in-fact kept that in your application, even after you were asked to make it more serious. I was unable to make the points I brought up on your second application on your first due to my being absent due to medical complications at the time.

 

after a long waiting period

 

I'd like to contend that both me and Tishina have real lives, and other things to do other than simply sit on the forum and wait to approve applications, there's currently no "Required response time". We get to the applications whenever both of us are online and not-busy simultaneously, which in-and-of itself is a feat sometimes considering the timezone difference between us.

 

Who listed three reasons why she wouldn't accept my application.

If you care to go back to his second whitelist

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1464

You can see that I state (In my second response) that these are not justifications for why I intended to deny your application, these were points I wished you to address without accusing someone else of being at fault, We gave you at least a week to formulate a non-accusatory response, after you failed to do so. Your application was denied.

 

answered the question with the least hostility I can manage

 

I don't really think you did, you responded aggressively and accused several other people as justifications instead of responsibly replying to them.

For the first point (Which was bringing up your level of maturity) you responded with "have, in the past witnessed extremely poor Head play by a whitelisted player" Which while it likely is true, is just saying "Well, other people are bad heads! Why can't I be one?"

The Second point,(Which was me bringing up your notes) Has been done before, and will be done again for other players, we were not specifically targeting you by stating your notes. In my mind, you addressed this one the best out of all of the three presented, you stated that the notes were older (They were), and that you had adjusted your playing, and learned from the experience. Which I have no reason to contest, you've not gained any notes for quite some time.

For the Third point. (Your irrational distrust of staff as a whole) Your responded, accusing me of trying to resurrect an argument, which i had not intended to do. Then proceeded to accuse me of being biased, wholly bypassing addressing the issue completely, and instead shifting the blame upon myself and Tishina.

I'm not trying to make this an exasperatingly long argument against you, nor am I saying that this was handled the best way it could've been by either side. Honestly, if you make another application and address the remaining two points I brought up, without delving into accusatory rage. I can guarantee you would be accepted. You are an utterly fantastic role-player, with an eccentric and memorable character that the station loves, the only reason for your denial was OOC reasons, address those points on another application and I will happily approve you.

[Guest]

Because, it currently seems like you're accusing Dea Tacita and TishinaStalker of deliberately inhibiting your whitelist out of a personal grudge against you.

Is that the primary intent of this complaint?

That is the primary intent of this complaint, the secondary intent of this complaint would be to point out that even if they're not, they're making their best effort to make it look that way. Due to one reason, or another things were handled poorly, I'd like to make a complaint about that and request these errors are corrected.

 

I'd like to contend that both me and Tishina have real lives, and other things to do other than simply sit on the forum and wait to approve applications, there's currently no "Required response time". We get to the applications whenever both of us are online and not-busy simultaneously, which in-and-of itself is a feat sometimes considering the timezone difference between us.

 

I aknowledge the fact that both you and Tishina are human beings, but I am somewhat frustrated I have to clarify that despite my choice of IC characters I too, am a human being, and some members of our wonderful and diverse race tend to lash out when other human beings go to extreme lengths just to poke them in the eye with a stick.Furthermore, I have a real life too, and I find myself too busy to constantly fill out application forms on a forum dedicated to a two dimensional space man game. Regardless of this fact I have still been forced to make three of them, and now you're trying to talk me into making a fourth. I would assume that as a fellow human being you realize the importance of flexible conduct, and are willing to let me adress your points here rather than make go trough your makeshift bureaucratic meatgrinder.

 

For the first point (Which was bringing up your level of maturity) you responded with "have, in the past witnessed extremely poor Head play by a whitelisted player" Which while it likely is true, is just saying "Well, other people are bad heads! Why can't I be one?"

 

Indeed, I was evasive with this question because of what I percieve as a disagreement between us, on what constitutes maturity.

You see, I believe that we're playing a video game about space men. I believe that the Aurora station isn't real, and does not actually exist much like the disasters which hit it, there is no reason for this bureaucracy, these rules and regulations which have no purpose other than being there for the sake of rules and regulations, it is simply taking IC roleplay OOC and pretending this place is some sort of independant virtual city-state, or that we're a haunt of brooding prodigy writers. In simple terms, I am here to have fun. In the past, my pursuit of fun has directly stopped other people from having fun. I realized the error in this behavior, and I stoppped doing it for the sake of the fun of other players. I argue, that taking the game this seriously is does the opposite of forwarding the cause of fun and enjoyment, not only for myself but anyone else who might encounter a player who holds the belief that this is a continuation of their real life, rather than a completely virtual experience. But alright, consider this an act of me putting on an 1960's business suit twice my size, putting my feet on a mahogany desk and taking long puffs from a cigar. How very mature of me, I might even tip my trilby and comment on the euphoria I experience due to my own intelligence at this rate.

 

Your responded, accusing me of trying to resurrect an argument.

Which you did, twice. That's an important bit because it was me trying to avoid a confrontation and trying to calmly go about my business, having fun while playing this game, without having to deal with the nest of vipers I had previously stepped in.

Seeing as this is not an option and I absolutely have to continue the argument, I will. I just want to point out this is the part where we could have agreed to disagree and moved on.

 

I'm not trying to make this an exasperatingly long argument against you, nor am I saying that this was handled the best way it could've been by either side. Honestly, if you make another application and address the remaining two points I brought up, without delving into accusatory rage. I can guarantee you would be accepted.

 

You've already made this an exasperatingly long argument against me. Claiming the position of the calm, neutral bystander isnt very convincing at this point.

You want me to apologize for things unrelated to my IC conduct, things unrelated to my OOC conduct outside the forums as I have rarely if ever criticized, let alone attacked someone ingame, things which will have no impact on a round in any way. If my reasoning cant get to you, and you outright admit that the only reason you denied me was based on the fact that I question your decisions, then by all means let's argue.

Lets bash our heads together, beat our chests, make loud noises and measure our e-dicks. Mine's bigger, I insist!

But, allow me to point out that this doesn't make you neither trustworthy, or mature. Two virtues you seem to hold closely.

Allow me to remind you that I stepped back multiple times, attempting to avoid useless arguing. If I, the immature and passive agressive problem player am capable of that, but you aren't. Where does that put you?

To summarize, I accuse you of :

1. Not only encouraging the wrong and toxic behavior of taking the game extremely seriously to the point where it becomes unenjoyable to the player and others, but also placing it as the norm.

2. Asking me to cut you some slack while not even slightly returning the gesture.

3. Continiously forcing me to argue with you about things I really dont want to argue with you about, not because it may prove problematic ingame but simply because you can.

4. Demanding my trust after planting your boot on my face, repeatedly.

5. Enforcing standards on me which even you yourself are unable to meet.

6. Feigning uninvolvement in an argument which you decided to start without any provocation. If you had been able to handle the horrible insult I had made to Your Family Name/Your country/Your favorite anime/The world wrestling federation, or whatever institution you look up to by making a joke on my first whitelist application, this complaint wouldnt be here.

[Skull132]

The following is a blurb of clarification on how the application was denied, and why it was left to sit.

 

• Initial application was denied on the grounds of being deemed unsuitable (whether it was or not, I won't comment until I've actually had time to review it properly)
• In the second application, points were raised against the applicant
  
  • Note that anyone is free to do so, in this case it happened to be Dea Tacita

[*]As is practice, the application was left open for further discussion and flagged with the "Author Attention Needed" tag, so that the concerns raised could be discussed

[*]At a certain point, Inverted Rectum chose not to reply for an amount of 6-7 days, after which the application was flagged as inactive, and thus, denied

 

With that aside, let's move on wards. Instead of quoting you directly, I'm just going to try and summarize the main points I see.

Are you able to use this complaint to address the concerns that got your application denied? Yup. Specially considering the nature of the concerns, your showcase here can be used as reference as you desire.

As for the actual concern about maturity. Here's my view: we are playing a game, yes. However, by taking a gander around a few of the other complaint boards, I'm sure you're able to pick out that not everyone takes this game with a grain of salt that others do. Meaning, people get rather heated, fired up, etcetera. As a head of staff, you and your actions are more likely to fall subject to such complaints than that of Dude McDude's, who plays a Shaft Miner all day long and doesn't really poke his nose on station. With that note in mind, being able to keep yourself on point for discussions when your actions go under the firing line is a rather good quality to have. In the case of your second application, I do believe this is the main element considered under Dea's first concern.

[Frances]

couldn't read, posted a question that was already answered, whoops

[Guest]

[*]In the second application, points were raised against the applicant

• Note that anyone is free to do so, in this case it happened to be Dea Tacita

 

Who is the only person to raise a point against me, one of the staff members in charge of dealing with whitelist applications, and the only reason why the whitelist is denied and why this complaint is here.

 

As a head of staff, you and your actions are more likely to fall subject to such complaints than that of Dude McDude's, who plays a Shaft Miner all day long and doesn't really poke his nose on station.

 

Heads of Staff are arguably an antagonist role in a single gamemode, and even then they're not allowed to take players out of the round in the same way a traitor, a changeling or a nuke op would. I have had my fair share of playing security without being caught up in any of the problems other people usually mention.

I was informed earlier in the thread that my Ingame actions weren't the reason why my second application was denied.

 

With that note in mind, being able to keep yourself on point for discussions when your actions go under the firing line is a rather good quality to have. In the case of your second application, I do believe this is the main element considered under Dea's first concern.

And I am undoubtedly willing to do that when my actions are under fire for a valid reason, as I had addressed the concern about my player notes. Arguing on who was right and who was wrong in an argument which happened months ago is useless. Faced with the request to do it, I attempted to practice

rather than continue old feuds. As this complaint points out, I was unsuccesful.

At the risk of venturing off-topic once again, I will point out that the general issue of people constantly being loud and argumentative may be related to the fact that there seems to be literally no other fucking way of getting things done around here.

[Skull132]

Who is the only person to raise a point against me, one of the staff members in charge of dealing with whitelist applications, and the only reason why the whitelist is denied and why this complaint is here.

 

You'll have to excuse me, I do not see this as an issue minus one count. It should be, in my mind, permitted for a staff member in charge of applications to raise concerns regarding the application and applicant. This is what happened, and it is normal. If equal weight is given to similar issues, regardless of who raises them on an application, then it is just par for the course and another day at the office, no? The only issue here I see is the fact that the person raising the complaint chose to also deny it. However, this was not due to the fact that they were subjectively dissatisfied with your answers, but simply because the application went inactive for 7 days. A better practice would have been TishinaStalker deny it, however consider that they had already denied one of your applications, so that action also could have lent towards the argument of bias being raised (in my mind, it is a show of better form that Dea managed your application, instead of Tishina doing it again).

 

Heads of Staff are arguably an antagonist role in a single gamemode, and even then they're not allowed to take players out of the round in the same way a traitor, a changeling or a nuke op would. I have had my fair share of playing security without being caught up in any of the problems other people usually mention.

I was informed earlier in the thread that my Ingame actions weren't the reason why my second application was denied.

 

And as noted, your ingame conduct was not the issue. What I was trying to, and still am trying to get at is the fact that as a head of staff, your actions will be scrutinized by other players regardless of round type and your official antagonist status. You need to be capable of remaining collected in a situation where a decision made in game, a decision which appeared valid at the time, is filed up as a complaint by a player. The complaint does not even have to be objectively valid: it can still be submitted and discussion about it to a degree is required (barring straight up outlandish things).

 

And I am undoubtedly willing to do that when my actions are under fire for a valid reason, as I had addressed the concern about my player notes. Arguing on who was right and who was wrong in an argument which happened months ago is useless. Faced with the request to do it, I attempted to practice

rather than continue old feuds. As this complaint points out, I was unsuccesful.

 

I do not think who was right and who was wrong was raised as a concern. More so your conduct and the way you held yourself in the arguments in question raised concern.

 

At the risk of venturing off-topic once again, I will point out that the general issue of people constantly being loud and argumentative may be related to the fact that there seems to be literally no other fucking way of getting things done around here.

 

Of partial mind to agree with you here. It's easier to contact people directly, in my mind, as then you don't need to worry about external noise, and can manage your tone better. But this is my opinion and my preferred MO.

[Guest]

I'd like to skip the pleasantries and talk what I view as the most important concern your post raised.

 

I do not think who was right and who was wrong was raised as a concern. More so your conduct and the way you held yourself in the arguments in question raised concern.

 

At the beginning of this argument, I attempted to present what I percieved as a problem with a regulation, explaining my reasons for believing there is a problem, why there is a problem, where the problem is, how this problem could be fixed.

I was almost immediately met with smug, hostile passive agressive shitposting, utterly irrelevant nitpicking (The difference between a tribe and a clan was brought up as an important part of the discussion). I had attacked the lore, but staff reacted as if I had personally attacked them. You yourself admitted your hostility on the second page of that thread regardless of the fact that I had not insulted you in any of my posts, and still have not (At least, not intentionally). When people supposedly held at a high standard outright refuse to have a civil conversation with me and immediately begin flinging shit in my direction, what exactly is supposed to motivate me to respond to them with courtesy and a logical argument? I tried to reason with you, and others, in return I recieved a continuous stream of diarrhea pointed in my general direction. I wanted a discussion, I was given a shit flinging contest. Given no other choice, I flung shit. People flung shit right back, people became loud, I became loud. Finally, I decided to become louder than anyone else untill this point, ultimately ending in the subreddit being so inspired in watching me shitpost, that they apparently decided to shitpost on that general subject with me.

And then, people said there's a problem where I had previously pointed at and claimed there's a problem.

This is problematic, beacause in my mind I had attempted two ways to approach the issues I spotted :

A - Rational argument (This did not work.)

B - Loud internet noises and insults (This worked.)

Nobody listened to me or paid attention to anything I said untill I decided to be a deafeningly loud passive agressive shitposter about it. The shitposting, the hostility and neurotic behavior is not something I brought to this server, if you notice the dates on most threads complaining about it you'd notice they were made in periods during which I didnt even play. Consider my over the top hostility a caricature of how this awful behavior looks to an absolute outsider forced to partake in it.

Do I consider the smugposting wrong? Yes, I do. I believe I have been quite vocal about my opinion on it many, many times.

In the words of one of my favorite movie characters,

I am not a pure shitposter, I am a necessary shitposter.Whenever the current necessity to shitpost when I have to do anything involving the OOC part of this server goes out of fashion, I will be more than glad to actually have a regular conversation with you or anyone else, all while playing spacemen on a space station in peace.

However, I refuse to apologize for my contribution to the brown swamp we're currently stuck in. It was here when I got here, I was dragged into it against my wishes, and now you're repeatedly pulling me back into it every fucking time I try to climb out.

Even if you turn me into a scapegoat and blame everything on me, il just end up leaving while the complaints and arguments keep coming without me being there to cause them, because people are far more concerned who is being an asshole to who, rather than the fact that someone's being an asshole.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I am going to join the minority side here, on some points. I read Starfish' whitelists, and while the original was... Less than stellar, the points brought up against him the next time around seemed unnecessary to the context of the application itself. Potential behaviour as a Head can't really be determined with full guarantee of accuracy without the person actually having a trial run as a head. Proof of understanding, even if laced with a drop of the formalities we've unspokenly decided to demand from whitelist applications with, is still proof of understanding.

Outside the angry confrontational behaviour (which I agree absolutely is needed, as I have utilized it myself to create change when regular discussions went nowhere) there wasn't any relevance of points raised to potential IC conflicts as a Head. In my mind, the ideal situation would be to raise these points, but as they were separate to IC actions (decisions as a head are discussed IC after all; OOC only if there's a genuine rule breach somewhere or a concern for the staff themselves) the decision would have been best have been the benefit of the doubt. The staff always reserve the right to strip whitelists if someone is being unsatisfactory, but I don't really consider his behaviour outside his character roles as terrible marks against his ability to play a Head before ever even given the chance. While I won't so far as to accuse Dea or Tishina of intentional bias, I will say they perhaps projected how they interpret Star's OOC behaviour as being how he acts IC to handle disputes, when perhaps Starfish' confrontational behaviour is a weapon amongst his arsenal rather than his sole mode. Which, as I have said, is unfounded to a degree.

In short, I'd have to say that he has a point, and it's unfortunately a necessity in these times for him to raise his point in the manner he does.

EDIT:

This manner which would have probably been better directed replying to Dea's point before the deadline for it expired, I admit.

[Skull132]

You'll have to pardon the eccentricity of my mind, however, I see communicating much the same as a dance: a step forward, one to the side, a step backwards. Maybe a little twirl, as you and your partner feel like it. It's a lot of cues and knowledge, if you're communicating when someone you know. If you're talking with someone you don't know, you'll usually end up doing one of two things: either a slow dance with small movements, or taking control over the dance and forcibly driving it to where you intend it to end up at.

I would put shitposting as falling under the second option.

But the beauty of it is, it's still dancing.

With that said, I am willing to say that I can see a part of your argument. I still do not condone shitposting, as I have managed to solve a whole lot more issues through one on one conversations, regardless of community, and I know for a fact that it works here.

Now. Here's what I propose. Dea Tacita and TishinaStalker have both been tracking this thread, and I am certain that they are capable of unravelling the ball of yarn you've tossed out here. Would ensuring in that be sufficient?

And as for apologies. You'll have to excuse me, I never really cared for them, and until quoted otherwise, I won't really ask for one. Words are completely useless until actions provide reinforncement to them. So, I will manage the staff by that mantra, and should we fail that end, our end, that is grounds for more publically visible action. Thoughts?

[Guest]

Just give this man a whitelist. If he fails at it a lot, I trust he'll have decency to stop playing them, leave or will simply get jobbanned.

Excuse me for my overuse of metaphors, but if you can't leave the swamp, drain it. How to drain in? Stop filling it with shit. Who's really filling it with shit is for you to decide or who started first doesn't matter. Just move on.

[Crescentise]

I was basically too nervous to post here until Bokaza did. I agree with him.

I'm aware that there have been past issues with, say, Xander and playing head positions - after they were whitelisted. And that's okay! Xander can still be head, and an arguably good one at that - people learn. It's okay to trust people with a whitelist. If you guys let Starfish have it, I personally would be very grateful. I'm pretty sure he knows what not to do after all of this warning, you can trust him. If not, and he starts regularly messing up, then take it away. I feel that it would become the massive issue it is now only at that time, and that there's little point making it so now as it appears to inhibit a very popular character's presence and arpee aboard the station.

[TishinaStalker]

Should be worth noting that Dea and I originally planned on accepting his last application, but had to deny it for inactivity.

[Dea Tacita]

If you guys let Starfish have it,

 

If you read through my earlier comments. I told Starfish that IF he applied again, we'd accept it.

[Skull132]

I am of mind to give him a whitelist, by basically over turning the decision made on the last one as the points made against him, which were the items that effectively caused it to time out, have been explained here. However, do understand that I need to coordinate this with the other staff, as we've never had a case like this before.

I would still like to know whether or not he considers the rest suitable or not.

[Guest]

And as for apologies. You'll have to excuse me, I never really cared for them, and until quoted otherwise, I won't really ask for one. Words are completely useless until actions provide reinforncement to them. So, I will manage the staff by that mantra, and should we fail that end, our end, that is grounds for more publically visible action. Thoughts?

 

That seems reasonable, I agree with it.

 

I am of mind to give him a whitelist, by basically over turning the decision made on the last one as the points made against him, which were the items that effectively caused it to time out, have been explained here.

I'd request this as the course of action. Im sorry but Im too exhausted and unmotivated to make a new application. That is not to imply im absolutely unwilling to, but i'd really appreciate it if I dont have to.

I generally consider this complaint resolved.

[Dea Tacita]

Resolved, Locking and archiving.