Desven Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 Type: Planet Describe this proposal in a single sentence (12 word maximum): Mictlan desperately needs lore, I wrote some to make it more unique. How will this be reflected on-station?: If it were taken at face value? Directly add two new religions (or sub religious factions), new drinks and foods, and hopefully a wave of Mictlanian Aztlanian characters. Does this faction/etc do anything not achieved by what already exists?: It's a rewrite, and while one could say there are certainly similarities to some Unathi notions, no, I think it's fairly fresh and in fact adds a lot more importance to a left-for-dead planet. Why should this be given to lore developers rather than remain player created lore?: Because it's a total rewrite of Mictlan, and to make it headcanon only would definitely go against lore rules. Do you understand that if this is submitted, you are signing it away to the lore team, and that it's possible that it will change over time in ways that you may not forsee?: Absolutely, that's mainly the reason why I'm posting it here. Long Description: Here's the link to the Google doc I made. Extras: Boy, I don't know where to start. So basically, I had a bunch of ideas last Sunday and just sat down and wrote them, I haven't really looked over the document besides some typos Lain corrected. I'll make up a bunch of questions I feel I would be asked, and try to answer them in a concise manner. Why are you posting a first draft?: Because I want feedback from the community. What I wrote some days ago is also not totally what it's currently brewing in my head. For example, I would like to make clear that the exampas aren't totally Vysokian-rural world, but rather, think about some probably wealthy farmers that live in small communities without all services because of how centralized the government is. I would also like to correct some goofy-sounding parts, mainly the ending. I'm totally in for absurd dystopias, however, and I think it reflects with the document style. It might not be suited for the loredev team's style, and it's okay if they want to change it. The elephant in the room, why Aztlan and not Mictlan?: Because I think Mictlan is too much of an eerie name as it stands that doesn't really fit the setting or would be realistically chosen. It's like if you created a world named Hell or, at least, Underworld. It might go under the radar for some of our players, but Hispanic players could expand further with me that Mictlan is just... off. I chose Aztlan because of the connotations it has, and turns out it's been chosen for other sci-fi settings, which I had no idea, but it makes sense for a pan-Hispanic State project. Anyways, I'm open to another rename, or making up a nahuatl-sounding word even (or perhaps just, simply, choosing another toponym). I've done this before in other works of fiction, so it should be easy. If it's so barebones as it stands, why not just use it for a human lore dep app?: I'm unsure if I'd be fit for the job, mainly for two reasons: 1) I find the newslore not too newbie-friendly, and because I didn't experience many of the events firsthand, it gets lost for me. Suffice is to say, I ignore a lot of the human lore for this reason, and I don't know many of the motives of the powerful factions because of it, like other better-suited candidates would do. 2) I have problems with human lore that would go beyond a deputy position, mainly, I wish there was a lot more culture and media localized on each planet, not just left for headcanon, because many players are afraid to engage in that time of discussions in fear of not being lore-friendly. I think it's a hard balance, and I tried to even it out with my draft, although I most likely failed. In short, you're free to tear this apart, rewrite it completely, do whatever. I mainly want to cause a serious discussion of rewriting Mictlan, and I couldn't find a better board to post this other than the one it's currently at. If you feel your criticism is too harsh or want to discuss it privately, you can dm me on discord too. Also, I would like to move forward with @Sycmos aid, mainly, because I value his opinion a lot as he's probably one of the few Mictlan players out there, and he's really passionate about this planet too. If anything, his proposals would surely be better than mine.
Kintsugi Posted May 28, 2021 Posted May 28, 2021 (edited) Just going to point out some things I noticed. First off, I do not think Mictlan should be renamed. I don't see any gain to be gotten from renaming an established planet that has been canon for years now. Moving on. Quote Perhaps ironically, it has not been with the llama but with the alpaca that hybrids have been possible, appreciated for their diligence to work, their luxurious wool and meat. It is not possible for hybridization to occur between an Earth species and a species from another planet. If you're implying that the Aztlanian llama is a species native to Aztlan and it is able to hybridize with Earth Alpacas, this is not at all biologically sound and shouldn't really be a thing. If Humans, for example, cannot hybridize with their closest extant relatives in terms of species, how could two species that don't even come from the same biosphere do so? Another thing that is more personal preference than anything else - but you should consider coming up with unique names for animal life instead of saying Aztlanian (x). For example, the Llama could be "Melena", which is the Spanish word for mane. Quote In the 2460 census, the Aztlan population was 2.6 billion sapients. The breakdown is as follows: 70% Aztlanian 20.4% Other human ethnicities 7.3% Skrell 2% Other sapients Generally speaking I think that hard numbers for population and ethnic makeup are a net detriment to worldbuilding and are generally pointless. I suspect the lore team feels the same way, as you'll notice that new planets and articles tend to omit this detail. Quote Tajara are uncommon in Aztlan due to the climate, but also because of the speciesism they face due to folk beliefs and cultural differences. Unathi population has grown in Aztlan, mostly as police officers and in the ranks of the military. Dionae have found a home in some of the regions of Aztlan, and are known to cooperate in the communal farms of the planet, although a significant presence is yet to be there. Vaurcae are a recent species, arrived after the incorporation to the Republic of Biesel, and have colonized the mostly unexplored poles. Although welcomed by some at first because of the potential of the production of phoron due to the growth of k’ois, the effects in the health of humanity have considered this species as a plague, with some communities lynching the Vaurcae they see. IPCs are mostly common in the big cities and the resorts, most of them being shells, because most of the population remains wary about synthetics. I think this entire paragraph presents a problem, because you're trying to touch bases with every species - and this is wholly unnecessary. Mictlan is a Human planet - it would be acceptable for it to not have any aliens at all. If, however, you feel it necessary or desirable to include one or two species because it makes sense - more power to you. However, there really isn't a need to include mention of every single species in our lore. Ask yourself this: Why would aliens come to this particular (Solarian) planet, when Tau Ceti exists? The reason must be fairly substantial, as things will be a lot better for them in Tau Ceti than here, surely. Also, let me point out a problem that goes back to your previous use of hard numbers in terms of percentage. 2% of 2.4 billion is 48 million. This number is pretty huge for an alien population, all things considered. Moving on to specific species: Tajara not being present makes sense. Unathi being an established population could make sense, I suppose, but not in their present role: Aztlan was a Solarian world and as a middle ring colony, the general opinion of the population regarding Unathi is going to be low - and having them be police officers and members of the military (What military are you referring to, by the way?) directly contradicts that - as these are positions of authority. In my mind, Unathi would be menial laborers and unskilled workers, if they're present at all. Skrell, despite being present in *very* large numbers, appear not to be mentioned at all in this section. Dionae being present makes sense, I suppose. As a species it is well known that I'm not fond of them, and therefore don't really have the experience to comment on their situation. Vaurcae being present at all doesn't make sense to me. IPCs being present is fine, though I would say that their situation as it is described too strongly resembles the situation they face on Silversun. Quote This cooperation, however, came to an end almost a year later, with the first great harvest. Many settlers that thought themselves as independent to the big agricultural companies were surprised to see that a provisional government, in the settlement of Arequipa, claimed to have the right of the land and about 60% of all grown produce. Militias formed, and the young planet was in a state of war, with the syndicates forming the first formal militaries of Aztlan. While the big corporations were defeated, because they lacked men, their presence was not gone and some decided to reinvent themselves, making sure the planet would be luxurious enough for any future tourism. Meanwhile, the workers founded the Republic of Aztlan, with the first president being Lucas Gómez Sáenz, leader of the old Obreros del Maíz agricultural syndicate. Even today, there are no political parties in Aztlan. Rather, the worker syndicates work as political parties themselves. Why didn't Sol intervene in this conflict? If Aztlan is such a vital breadbasket, why is it that they allowed this civil war to take place - this sort of thing would have major repercussions for the supply chain. Quote Arequipa is a city of 5 million and the heart of Aztlan Once again, a problem with hard numbers - with a population of 2.4 billion, don't you think the capital of the planet would be more than five million? Santiago (The capital of Chile), for example, has a population of half a million more people than that - and it isn't even one of the top five largest cities in the Americas. Quote Most Aztlanians are Catholic, and thus remain close to many Terran customs. Like many other Catholic places, there is a popular apparition of the Virgin Mary called the Virgin of Rosarito, or the Lady of Rosarito, who was said to appear at the Rosarito mount shortly after the establishment of the government. The cult of Our Lady of Rosarito has worried some Catholic authorities, with some exampas recognizing no God but the Lady of Rosarito herself. While there is -supposedly- liberty of expression in Aztlan, insulting Lady of Rosarito is considered a crime, punished with up to 30 years of jail time, depending on the severity of the blasphemy. IRL religions are never really mentioned in Auroralore as a rule, and I suspect that Aztlan won't be treated any differently. You may want to consider coming up with a folk religion to fit the niche of religious lore for the planet. Quote Aztlan society is matriarchal, and the head of the family is the eldest woman, usually a grandmother or great grandmother, called Yaya by their children and grandchildren alike. Yaya is the owner of the farmlands and properties of the family, and when she dies they are all either given to the oldest daughter or, in the case of Yaya only having sons, the sons fight with each other to prove their worth for their wives to hold the properties themselves. Having such a blatantly sexist Human society may prove controversial for some. I do not mind it, personally, but I suspect that at this point in the timeline, sexism such as this is a thing of the past. Edited May 28, 2021 by DanseMacabre
Caelphon Posted May 28, 2021 Posted May 28, 2021 Whilst I do not have jurisdiction here (humanies), I do like the premise of the application and the writing you've done. I have to agree with Danse with some of his points; 6 hours ago, DanseMacabre said: It is not possible for hybridization to occur between an Earth species and a species from another planet. If you're implying that the Aztlanian llama is a species native to Aztlan and it is able to hybridize with Earth Alpacas, this is not at all biologically sound and shouldn't really be a thing. I'd suggest creating your own lore surrounding this creature. Perhaps expand on how they're different from Earth Llamas, or why they are considered Aztlanian Llamas. Perhaps expanding on their alieness might work better? Four-eyed creature as tall as an Emu? Its bipedal? Who knows, its your decision to make. 6 hours ago, DanseMacabre said: I think this entire paragraph presents a problem, because you're trying to touch bases with every species - and this is wholly unnecessary. 6 hours ago, DanseMacabre said: Generally speaking I think that hard numbers for population and ethnic makeup are a net detriment to worldbuilding and are generally pointless. I suspect the lore team feels the same way, as you'll notice that new planets and articles tend to omit this detail. Yes, I think we tend to avoid hard population demographs now, so might just want to touch on that. Also, including every species isnt necessary, but from what I've gauged from our conversations across the various discord channels is that you're rather inclusive, so whilst this might originate from a good place, it breaks down further along considering the Solarian Xenophobes. Considering Mictlan/Aztlan is a very *new planet to the Republic of Biesel, perhaps franchise on it being the most prominent member of the Corporate Reconstruction Zone? So instead of saying that there we a variety of species already on the planet, perhaps create a further paragraph regarding recent history or something similar where the SCC has begun bring employees to Mictlan/Aztlan of various different species who are beginning to find themselves becoming victim to the Solarian Xenophobia. 6 hours ago, DanseMacabre said: IRL religions are never really mentioned in Auroralore as a rule, and I suspect that Aztlan won't be treated any differently. You may want to consider coming up with a folk religion to fit the niche of religious lore for the planet. Also yes, this is a good point. Depending on how long ago Skrell we introduced to the planet, there could be a blending/combination of both Qeblak/Weishii with this new folk religion which has managed to spread into Mictlan/Aztlan homes? 6 hours ago, DanseMacabre said: Why didn't Sol intervene in this conflict? If Aztlan is such a vital breadbasket, why is it that they allowed this civil war to take place - this sort of thing would have major repercussions for the supply chain. Hmmm, also a good point. Perhaps make this a more recent occurence? Perhaps after Sol was collapsing there was a change of hands? They agreed to fidelity underneath the Republic of Biesel? These are all just the top of my head, you might find something more interesting to use.
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