Nerf infections

[Erik Tiber]

Currently, infections are apparently virulent enough to kill people in a matter of minutes upon getting them. And as it turns out, these infections rapidly spread throughout the entire system, causing rapid, rapid organ failure, causing brain damage, all sorts of nasty stuff.

This is not a description of a normal infection. This is basically a description of a bioweapon in all but name.

We should really, really nerf infections. They should not kill people so absurdly quickly. Hell, if anything people should have far stronger immune systems than today. Genetic engineering yo, it's hands down affordable to just about everyone, only people who wouldn't get any genemods are those who choose not to.

So rather than the current bioweapon-grade infections, perhaps we could nerf it considerably? Maybe Increase the time it takes for it to spread by one or two orders of magnitude and decrease the rate at which it does damage by a comparable amount?

Even the most deadly infections are deadly over the course of a day or two from when symptoms first appear. Infections should only really be a concern in someone with many many open wounds or with many, many burns, and even then it wouldn't kill them all that quickly at all, certainly not within an hour at the very least.

[Blue]

Infections were put in place to encourage players to not "shrug it off" and get to medical. But the way it's set up is ridiculously OP. If I shank you and leave you in a room, I expect you to die of bleeding out, not of some bug...

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Infections are extremely strong, I agree. But I don't think we should diminish them completely. Infections are an extremely serious matter, but no matter how many oranges you eat your immune system won't be able to stop an infection developing in a wound without medical care.

As it stands iirc infections are a punishment for not getting medical attention. Buuuut this can punish people who through antag-kidnappings or other such misfortunes can't access the OR room or spaceacillin to kill it. (This happened to me)

But I don't know. For drama porpoises it's been entertaining more than it's been frustrating.

EDIT:

No amount of gene splicing will prevent your laser-bolt riddled legs from developing necrosis if you don't get it treated.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Marlon Phoenix

[Gollee]

We should really, really nerf infections. They should not kill people so absurdly quickly. Hell, if anything people should have far stronger immune systems than today. Genetic engineering yo, it's hands down affordable to just about everyone, only people who wouldn't get any genemods are those who choose not to.

 

Expensive and regulated in our current lore, just discussed it.

[canon35]

I agree that infections need a nerf. Yeah, if you get shot then you need medical attention, but you shouldn't die in 10 minutes thanks to an INFECTION. Those take what? 2 days to kill?

[Blue]

Maybe every infection deals up to like, 30-50 toxin damage, and hurts an organ? Doesn't kill you unless you have more damage already. And deals a lot of pain damage, too.

[George VI]

An infection left untreated can develop into sepsis, which can easily kill you within an hour.

[Hackie]

-snip-

 

I believe that was what they were going with originally but... I think we should sacrifice infections for making gameplay run more smoothly imo.

[Jamini]

Nerf infections, and Nerf natural healing together.

Frankly, I shouldn't be able to shrug off a hard wrench blow to the back of the head by eating some raisins. Naturally healing is REALLY fast for minor wounds, and it shouldn't be.

It used to be natural healing was very slow or non-existant, often requiring medical for all but the smallest injuries. This was an issue as wounds would not stop bleeding (resulting in death if untreated). Having small wounds stop bleeding, but not heal fully (perhaps having any wound over 6 damage only heal 50% over time) without treatment, might be a good compromise.

While doing this, it may be best to include a medical wall kit in each department. (And please more painkillers in medical by default?)

[Frances]

Nerf natural healing together.

This is what I suggested a few times already.

Seriously, I'm not sure who added infections (Bay?), but they're basically an ugly patch onto a problem that'd be very easy to fix. Fast healing is unrealistic - the solution is to slow down healing, not have you die from flash T-virus sorcery.

[ForgottenTraveller]

Most infections currently take about 15 minutes from start to sepsis, most cases of 2 mins to death is due to them being left to fester into the latter stages.

There are also to other factors in play.

Mild infection + if an infection gets this bad you can keep them on an IV of dylovene and spacecillin and they will still not get better. It is essentially gangrene and amputation is the only option.

There is currently nothing indicating to the player that they have an infection, while they can have a fever of +50C with only a little toxin damage, a note to them that they feel hot or, [infected area] feels itchy, an early indicator may prevent some of the later bigger issues.

So maybe half or quarter speed [i lean more to the half] with a red italics test to the player saying they feel wrong to tip them off that they are infected. OR even I feel 'feverish/hot/warm/normal/cold/freezing' in the self examination option.

[Vanagandr]

Slower healing is an idea, though capping it so a wound with more than 20 or so points of damage doesn't autoheal might be a more elegant solution. So if you accidentally robust yourself or get your hand with the welder you'll heal up, but if Urist McAntag beats you in the legs with a baseball bat he can't just walk away for a few minutes and come back like nothing happened.

[Guest]

Mild infection + if an infection gets this bad you can keep them on an IV of dylovene and spacecillin and they will still not get better. It is essentially gangrene and amputation is the only option.

.

 

In my experience every infection above mild can only be treated with a large injection of Spaceacillin (30 units, on one occasion).

Amputating the infected limb will cause 1-2 other limbs to break and become infected instead, so drowning your patient in spaceacillin is the only way to deal with infections.

While I enjoy infections as a mechanic which keeps you from running around without treating your wounds, I agree that they're currently a bit too OP.

Maybe nerf the ammount of spaceacillin you need to deal with them.

[Vanagandr]

In my experience every infection above mild can only be treated with a large injection of Spaceacillin (30 units, on one occasion).

Amputating the infected limb will cause 1-2 other limbs to break and become infected instead, so drowning your patient in spaceacillin is the only way to deal with infections.

While I enjoy infections as a mechanic which keeps you from running around without treating your wounds, I agree that they're currently a bit too OP.

Maybe nerf the ammount of spaceacillin you need to deal with them.

Amputations are somewhat bugged and always break the bones in the parent location.

[Baka]

Patch up injury with both advance ointment and gauze, and administrate spaceacillin with anti-toxin and watch patient's fever with your scanner. If it stops going down just shoot a bit more spaceacillin at a time.

Bay designed infections to make people come to medbay for damage that should be treated if someone takes a considerate amount of damage, rather than limping it off.

[Erik Tiber]

Most infections currently take about 15 minutes from start to sepsis, most cases of 2 mins to death is due to them being left to fester into the latter stages.

Is this in game or in reality? It doesn't take all that long for literally any infected would to quickly go and kill the person outright. In relative terms. I thought it was possible to survive with a minor infection for more than, well, a day without just keeling over? Right now it seems that pretty much any infection has the capacity to go and kill you within the timescale of a single shift.

There are also to other factors in play.

Mild infection + if an infection gets this bad you can keep them on an IV of dylovene and spacecillin and they will still not get better. It is essentially gangrene and amputation is the only option.

There is currently nothing indicating to the player that they have an infection, while they can have a fever of +50C with only a little toxin damage, a note to them that they feel hot or, [infected area] feels itchy, an early indicator may prevent some of the later bigger issues.

So maybe half or quarter speed [i lean more to the half] with a red italics test to the player saying they feel wrong to tip them off that they are infected. OR even I feel 'feverish/hot/warm/normal/cold/freezing' in the self examination option.

I would personally go with something like a quarter. Right now even the most basic wounds can cause quick infections that kill you quickly.

Infections are extremely strong, I agree. But I don't think we should diminish them completely. Infections are an extremely serious matter, but no matter how many oranges you eat your immune system won't be able to stop an infection developing in a wound without medical care.

As it stands iirc infections are a punishment for not getting medical attention. Buuuut this can punish people who through antag-kidnappings or other such misfortunes can't access the OR room or spaceacillin to kill it. (This happened to me)

But I don't know. For drama porpoises it's been entertaining more than it's been frustrating.

EDIT:

No amount of gene splicing will prevent your laser-bolt riddled legs from developing necrosis if you don't get it treated.

I would assume that your laser-riddled legs won't kill you of gangrene in ten minutes flat.

We should really, really nerf infections. They should not kill people so absurdly quickly. Hell, if anything people should have far stronger immune systems than today. Genetic engineering yo, it's hands down affordable to just about everyone, only people who wouldn't get any genemods are those who choose not to.

 

Expensive and regulated in our current lore, just discussed it.

That's pretty stupid. It's 400 years in the future and we're looking at getting in-vitro genetic modification within the next few decades. I'm guessing that half the reason the ban is in place is over concern over 'snowflakes', right?

Of course it would be regulated. Expensive? Hell no. Again, it's 400 years in the future. We have cloning vats that can print entire new bodies in a negligible amount of time. We have the ability to basically create brain uploads. And the economy grows, anyway, and incomes grow over the course of hundreds of years. Are you seriously asserting that something so simple, some centuries-old technology that could have such major advantages, would be just too expensive? What, are the syringes made of solid diamond or something? We already completed the human genome project. In the modern day.

 

Patch up injury with both advance ointment and gauze, and administrate spaceacillin with anti-toxin and watch patient's fever with your scanner. If it stops going down just shoot a bit more spaceacillin at a time.

Bay designed infections to make people come to medbay for damage that should be treated if someone takes a considerate amount of damage, rather than limping it off.

Yes though currently it seems that it doesn't require considerable damage at all. Any damage, really.

[Frances]

Patch up injury with both advance ointment and gauze, and administrate spaceacillin with anti-toxin and watch patient's fever with your scanner. If it stops going down just shoot a bit more spaceacillin at a time.

Bay designed infections to make people come to medbay for damage that should be treated if someone takes a considerate amount of damage, rather than limping it off.

They definitely need to be fixed. The problem is that in any situation where you can't get a doctor and get an infection, you will die in a matter of hours/minutes (well, something inbetween). There's more elegant ways to ensure people don't ignore damage.

[mrimatool]

Ok Erik, yet again. It is regulated and it IS expensive. The lore team decided. Do you know how much money and resources it costs to have scientists research things for a year with top of the line equipment? A lot. Business have to make their money back, so they charge crazy amounts for it. Which people are willing to pay sometimes because it's advanced technology.

[Guest]

Not a lore issue. Gameplay issue here, Tool.

Getting an infection as just about any antagonist (namely, ninja, wizard, nuke op) is a death sentence. And getting hit as an antagonist is rather commonplace.

The fact that all minor infections lead to sepsis and what follows, is not fun for gameplay. There are better ways to refine survivability without adding in something so unnecessary as fast-acting sepsis.

As already suggested, just slow down natural healing to a crawl.

[Baka]

I find the notion of having a fever to the point where it's 80 DEGREES CELSIUS rather ridiculous though.

[Erik Tiber]

Ok Erik, yet again. It is regulated and it IS expensive.

Yes to the first and no to the second.

The lore team decided.

That's irrelevant as to whether or not the decision is a good one. I say it isn't.

Do you know how much money and resources it costs to have scientists research things for a year with top of the line equipment? A lot.

Top of the line is not four hundred years old.

Business have to make their money back, so they charge crazy amounts for it.

They charge at the equilibrium market price due to competition with other firms bringing down the price, plus four hundred years of tech development mean that you'll see prices significantly fall, before you take into account the fact that real incomes would give most people on station six figure salaries in 2015 USD.

Which people are willing to pay sometimes because it's advanced technology.

It's four hundred years old lol. We're going to get that stuff in the next few decades. If you're just making up an excuse to cover a decision made for another reason, you can just say, everyone has to do it in fiction.

Gengineering should be common place, by the time it's a four hundred year old technology, unless you want to wurble about how vaccinations are super expensive in the future because it's only been 500 years since we discovered the eldritch secrets of the smallpox vaccine. Because you're basically asserting that vaccines should be uber expensive right now, because hell if I know.

Not a lore issue. Gameplay issue here, Tool.

Getting an infection as just about any antagonist (namely, ninja, wizard, nuke op) is a death sentence. And getting hit as an antagonist is rather commonplace.

The fact that all minor infections lead to sepsis and what follows, is not fun for gameplay. There are better ways to refine survivability without adding in something so unnecessary as fast-acting sepsis.

As already suggested, just slow down natural healing to a crawl.

This is rather important to note. And it's very silly to have literally everything give people sepsis, even the smallest injuries, and have that sepsis cause comlete organ failure within an hour or two. With how fast infections spread you'd think that the entire station is smeared in human waste.

When I scraped my knee as a kid and the wound got infected, I didn't have to amputate my leg.

[Gollee]

Ok Erik, yet again. It is regulated and it IS expensive.

Yes to the first and no to the second.

The lore team decided.

That's irrelevant as to whether or not the decision is a good one. I say it isn't.

 

Irrelevant, if you have an issue, make a seperate thread, treat it as the lore team has decided it.

I agree with nerfing infections, most people on station aren't Quarians.

[mrimatool]

I'm fine with infections getting a nerf, in fact I'm all for it.

What I'm not for is Erik constantly ignoring the lore team decision.

[Erik Tiber]

Ok Erik, yet again. It is regulated and it IS expensive.

Yes to the first and no to the second.

The lore team decided.

That's irrelevant as to whether or not the decision is a good one. I say it isn't.

 

Irrelevant, if you have an issue, make a seperate thread, treat it as the lore team has decided it.

I agree with nerfing infections, most people on station aren't Quarians.

I made a thread for it. We can discuss this there.

 

I'm fine with infections getting a nerf, in fact I'm all for it.

What I'm not for is Erik constantly ignoring the lore team decision.

No, I'm not ignoring the lore team decision. You can clearly see me calling this very decision 'silly' and probably 'ill-thought out' in various threads. I'd say that my criticisms are rather clear examples of my acknowledging its existence.

Here's the thread. http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=1933

[Jamini]

A thought, regarding infections.

Why not have (maximum) infection level depend on the extent of the wound. Much like bleeding?

I.E.

Wounds < 10 damage - No/Minor infections only

10 - 30 damage - Minor++ infections at most

30-50 damage - Acute infections at most

50+ damage - Sepsis possible at most

A wound going septic requires fairly severe damage, while lesser but nonlethal infections can happen from even tiny untreated wounds? Perhaps that would help curb infections?