Merge and rework Vampire and Changeling

[Gromnax]

Hello,

 

I am a bit tired, so I'll try to make this as understandable and concise as possible.

Vampire and Changeling are two very similar gamemodes.

They are both creatures whom are not human and infiltrated the crew to feed on it. They both get more powerful the more they feed, and are based on body horror and the occult. They also both have the issue of not being able to do anything against mechanics (IPCs and androids). They both have skills to stay hidden and to regenerate as well.

Instead of making to versions of the same antag concept, I suggest to fuse them into one and even allow more possible flavours for the antagonists. And because the Veil is already half-present in lore with the Cultists, I suggest to link it to that entity.

 

Let's call it, for example, the Veil Seeker.

 

The Veil Seeker is a creature who has been corrupted by the Veil and Nar'Sie. Would it be because of another person corrupted, because it is a creature coming directly from there, or because they made their own occult researches and saw it gone wrong, they are now fully part of that universe. And they can only thrive aboard by feeding on the creatures around them.

The Seeker would have multiple trees to progress in to choose what kind of violent creature and how they feed they would be. Vampire and Changeling could be two possible inspirations for such trees, but this could be an opportinity to give them even more choice.

 

Example of ways of feeding :

- Blood (Vampire)

- DNA (Changeling)

- Flesh (Some kind of cannibal. Would leave only bones behind.)

- Electricity (Would feed on IPCs and APCs instead of flesh-and-bone creatures.)

- Another-concept-I-need-to-find (Not feeding my eating directly, but instead spreading veil spores to infect other players. Infected players would be subject to some violent spells that non infected players could not.)

- Others?

 

The seeker would have to choose a first way of feeding, and could unlock some more after some time. The feeding skill would be the very first of the linked spell tree, and the seeker could progress further by feeding, of course. Each tree  would give certain kind of skills (violence, IPCs, infection, stealth...). This would allow the Seeker to choose the style of antags he wants to be, even associating some if he likes the idea.

 

Let's consider this a basis we could/should work on. Would you like the idea? Do you have suggestions?

[EJJ]

I love this idea, frankly. This could extend to other species as well. Maybe picking between organic only or synthetic only and then distributing who has it and who doesn't. I've always like the idea of a vamp IPC mode but forcing IPCs to feed off of APCs seems like it would be especially painful on low engineering rounds.

Maybe more of a focus on draining equipment, draining cyborg chargers or computers rather than just turning entire parts of the ship off like Ninja does.

Just my suggestion, otherwise I dig it.

[Sparky_hotdog]

So personally I'm not a huge fan of the Veil as a concept as it suffers from the same issue the Wizard Federation did when Wizards were still a thing; It only exists inside of select rounds (cult and vamp atm), which I don't think makes it particularly engaging for roleplay. However, that detail wouldn't make or break this idea for me.

Other than that, this sounds great, for a number of reasons. You've already highlighted the similarities in the gameplay loops of both these antags, and I also feel this could make higher pop ling/vamp rounds more fun, as two different antags with different kits always seems to make rounds more exciting (Hence why autotraitor is still one of the most beloved round types). I'm also a fan of broader options for any one antag type, as it allows for more gimmick potential.

11 hours ago, Gromnax said:

- Flesh (Some kind of cannibal. Would leave only bones behind.)

The only suggestion here I'd have worries about is this, as it sounds fairly permadeath-y, and unless something changes this Seeker would likely still need to do some early feeding. It's not impossible to deal with (Assuming this is supposed to be a loud option, could always have early on feeding tear of a limb maybe? Rather than outright killing someone) but something that popped into my head.

[DatSamTho]

I really like this, tbh. Gives much more options, hopefully avoiding the issue of pretty much every single ling game going exactly the same. Although Electricity feeding off of APCs seems rather OP, and should probably only apply to borgs and IPC.

10 hours ago, Sparky_hotdog said:

The only suggestion here I'd have worries about is this, as it sounds fairly permadeath-y, and unless something changes this Seeker would likely still need to do some early feeding. It's not impossible to deal with (Assuming this is supposed to be a loud option, could always have early on feeding tear of a limb maybe? Rather than outright killing someone) but something that popped into my head.

Ling is also permadeath-y, the only way to feed is to kill people.

[Carver]

If we can draw away from the more permadeathy aspect of Changeling I'd be extremely happy. The major reason I'd love them to be merged would be that Vampire has the more intriguing method of power gain that keeps people in the round, while Changeling has a greater variety of powers that in some cases would make more sense for vampires (the pseudo-immortality/full regeneration).

[Sheeplets]

Branching off of Butter's and Sparky's ideas here. Vampires don't have to murder their victims and can take as much as they see fit, right? What if we applied that to current changelings as well? What if changelings could extract a full point of DNA from their victims by only going "halfway", leaving them seriously wounded but alive? With a giant bleeding stab wound from the proboscis and pretty substantial genetic damage. If they continued past that point it'd leave a husk like we're all familiar with, but going to that length would be optional and not entirely necessary. It wouldn't serve any real purpose to do so besides killing your victim out of spite if they're being a pain in the ass.

It'd generate work for Security, Medical, and something more for the crew to interact with than a shriveled up skin-rasin tucked into a locker somewhere while avoiding vampire's pitfall of people mysteriously turning up with 20% of their blood missing and nothing for the crew to build on until the vampire's inevitable 1:50 loud reveal. It's impossible to overlook someone that wounded and it'd offer an escalation route that doesn't ruin another person (or persons) round(s). Provided the changeling allows them to be found, of course. They should, in good faith.

[Gromnax]

I think Ling has been reworked some time ago with this flesh blob thing. Thus, technically, only the character is removed from the round, not the player. Would this kind of mechanics be a good answer to a more violent kind of feeding according to you?

[Gem]

1 hour ago, Gromnax said:

I think Ling has been reworked some time ago with this flesh blob thing. Thus, technically, only the character is removed from the round, not the player. Would this kind of mechanics be a good answer to a more violent kind of feeding according to you?

no. in my opinion, the "ling blob" is a trick that misleads the player into thinking they actually weren't taken out of the round even though they were. it's honestly better to just ghost and start the respawn timer.
a "total feeding" should preferably not be a thing, but if it is, it should either turn you into a minor antag (like a minor thrall, who is restored to their former self when the changeling/vampire dies), or just straight up kill you.

[Gromnax]

Not having a total feed at all seems like a big miss especially considering how horror-oriented these antags are currently.

A thralling sounds like a good option. However, having them being turned back when the antag dies seems like not punishing enough for the crew, as if the feeding had no consequence at all, when I feel it should. We're also missing opportunities, for example, on how to deal with a thing that was a crewmate and a victim, might be sound of mind, but is clearly not human anymore. I feel that would be interesting.

Straight up killing the victim seems to be what the people hate ling for. But at the same time, sucking people silently make others claim that it is too stealthy to be engaging. I still feel the character should be taken out even if the player should not. Mmh.

A full on conversion would be not based on this kind of very gory path anyway, as these styles are fighting each others. It would be on another tree (k'ois based perhaps?)

In any case, this is the opportunity to find a solution that everyone could agree with. We just need to find something interesting for the victims to do, without impeding on the antag's experience.

[Carver]

15 hours ago, Gromnax said:

I think Ling has been reworked some time ago with this flesh blob thing. Thus, technically, only the character is removed from the round, not the player. Would this kind of mechanics be a good answer to a more violent kind of feeding according to you?

That ling blob feels like a case of 'well you died but here's your pity reward'. It's not very engaging to play one and I'd rather just ghost in that case. I don't mind stealthy feeding, but if my character is taken out then I'm going to wait until the next round to play - as I join rounds with a particular character in mind. To that effect, thralling can be alright depending on the vampire's playstyle/goals and being converted into a vampire is always fun for me.