Kintsugi Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) BYOND Key: DanseMacabre Staff BYOND Key: Not sure, but the staffmember in question is Lavillastrangiato Game ID: N/A Reason for complaint: It was recently revealed in this thread that LVS, current deputy loremaster, created and owns a clique discord where certain Aurora players (and, though it hasn't been verified, potentially staffmembers) engage in toxic discourse in the same vein as many other clique discords Aurora has dealt with in the past. This complaint is levelled specifically against LVS and potentially any staffmember active in this discord. These private discords are a plague on Aurora and are a significant problem for this community, and for a member of the staff team to be responsible for this discord existing and operating as it does is utterly unacceptable. Evidence/logs/etc: Quote https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/19418-botanists-human-lore-deputy-application/#comment-170042 Additional remarks: None Edited October 30, 2023 by DanseMacabre
rrrrrr Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) Okay, since I'm the person who accidentally got invited, I think I need to clarify that I didn't see Villa engaging in the kind of behavior I posted a screencap of. Villa also went out of their way to apologize to me after becoming aware that I had been accidentally invited and had seen that kinda stuff. I didn't intend for anyone to get in trouble over this. I found it kinda off-putting and discouraging, but that's all. Edited October 30, 2023 by rrrrrr
La Villa Strangiato Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) This is just a Discord where I hang out with my Aurora friends. I've had it since before I became deputy loremaster. I don't really have an issue with botanist. The only thing I've said about them in this Discord is the following. Considering "I Love Meat" was used as, well, an example in botanist's application, I feel it is pertinent to post this content that they advertise writing, and perhaps it will explain for itself why I expressed this. Quote "I Love Meat" was one of the first positronic intelligences made using Skrellian technology. Housed in a simple body made out of mainly titanium, "I Love Meat" owns the galaxy's largest collection of pornography, both physical and digital. A proud owner of over 12 yottabytes of something it likely has no use for, "I Love Meat" runs a blog where it posts various pieces from its collection, often some of the most disgusting and foul. It is common practice among certain groups of fans (terming themselves 'meaters') to time how long one can read "I Love Meat"'s blog without vomiting. I can't exactly say "-1, that thing you wrote is sus" because A) +1s and -1s in dev apps don't really mean much and B) I honestly have no idea what to say in response to that, I'm kind of dumbstruck. And that's about it. Lisek has their own experiences with botanist as to why they expressed it (very melodramatically), and this has been discussed with staff. They probably shouldn't have said it, and it's not polite to say. You were very quick to make this complaint, Danse, and given your own history with your own words being taken out of context (especially how you congratulated me on being DLM), I'm a little disappointed that you jumped this quickly to try and pin an accusation of harassment on me. I have no doubt you have your own Discords with your own friends, and sometimes you probably say things in them that you wouldn't say in public. This is because, in real life and online, people say things to their friends that they would not say in public. I know why this is a bother; it's not excellent optics to see the deputy loremaster saying something like "I'm not sold on this" etc. etc. in some group of friends. Bad optics, frankly, are a perfectly good reason to discipline or remove someone from the team, and I understand if the staff wouldn't want me because this happened. I'll keep writing lore regardless. Edited October 30, 2023 by La Villa Strangiato
Kintsugi Posted October 30, 2023 Author Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, La Villa Strangiato said: You were very quick to make this complaint, Danse, and given your own history with your own words being taken out of context (especially how you congratulated me on being DLM), I'm a little disappointed that you jumped this quickly to try and pin an accusation of harassment on me. I have no doubt you have your own Discords with your own friends, and sometimes you probably say things in them that you wouldn't say in public. This is because, in real life and online, people say things to their friends that they would not say in public. I know why this is a bother; it's not excellent optics to see the deputy loremaster saying something like "I'm not sold on this" etc. etc. in some group of friends. Bad optics, frankly, are a perfectly good reason to discipline or remove someone from the team, and I understand if the staff wouldn't want me because this happened. I'll keep writing lore regardless. You are a deputy loremaster. I am a player. This staff complaint isn't about me. You have both passively-aggressively and outright aggressively fired shots at me multiple times in the past and until recently you had me blocked, for reasons unclear to me - I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with this specific reply, but you're misrepresenting our relationship and you know it. Me congratulating you on getting deputy loremaster was out of politeness, and bears no relevancy to this complaint. I was very quick to make this complaint because this is a serious problem the server faces. Edited October 30, 2023 by DanseMacabre
Garnascus Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 Will respond to this tomorrow night. Until then lets be respectful about this topic.
Garnascus Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 So, here are my thoughts here. I want to do my best to provide what I believe is a measured response. It is certainly true that lavilla is a staff member and that condoning or supporting harassing, rude or disparaging comments even in private is probably not something a staff member should be doing. It is certainly true that lisek's comment was inappropriate despite whatever misgivings they have with botanist as a person. Does this mean lavilla is guilty of owning a "metaclique"? Well.... We can see in the screenshot lavilla is criticizing botanist's application due to their past cited work. "I-love-meat" consists of themes that are generally not appropriate for the server. Themes that are even banned explicitly from on-server roleplay scenes. Thus, it is certainly fair from my point of view to criticize an applicant for creating work not necessarily conducive to our server's themes. While you're correct lavilla that a post saying "-1 what you wrote was sus" would certainly not be helpful a post that says something like "Hey you created this work some years ago that clashes with out server climate. Why do you hold it as an example of work to show your capabilities for a lore postion?". The latter gives botanist the chance to respond to the criticism. You yourself have been through the applicant process for a lore position lavilla. I am sure you can understand why botanist might be frustrated at comments being made about him in private where he cant respond to them. That being said this is a level of scrutiny that is several orders of magnitude greater than a couple comments in a friend discord would warrant. I sincerely doubt you considered the comment you made (or lisek's) anything more than a 5 second thought as you went about your day. I also do not think you're operating an unhealthy metaclique based on what evidence we have here. I would need to see comments indicating direct support for hateful comments directed at community members, calls for brigading a thread, targeted harassment of individuals through our community channels. Things of that nature. Danse has a point. The unfortunate reality of discord (and the internet as a whole) is that it is incredibly easy to create an echo chamber for yourself. In our roleplay community it is inevitable you will meet characters and players you vibe with and those you dont. It is all too easy to create community's and groups that bring those you vibe with closer together and push those you dont further away. On most levels i believe this is healthy behavior, we all have friends we play games with. I think it becomes a problem when the "private speech" we use to discuss individuals in these discords differs wildly from how we conduct ourselves on official server channels. I myself am probably guilty of this behavior, nobody is perfect. I think we should try to be cognizant of the harm a couple messages can do to overall server health. Even in private. I think we should always remember the human being behind a character we might not enjoy playing with. 3
La Villa Strangiato Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 That's perfectly reasonable. I have nothing to add.
Triogenix Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 Okay, I will be handling this complaint. I'll need some time to review everything said here and the different perspectives on the issue.
Triogenix Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 I thank everyone for keeping their posts concise so it was not a difficult task to review everything. I have decided to issue a warning to Lavilla, as I believe this behavior does not comply with the Lore Team Code of Conduct. I will be speaking with them about this behavior, and working with them to ensure it does not happen again. Unless there is further evidence to be presented, this complaint will close in 24 hours. 1
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