Moving IPC Wiper to OM Office

[Lmwevil]

Title, pretty much. 

The RD basically has no uh, leeway in the rules anymore to even be using it or doing that kind of work so it should probably be given to the OM who could have formerly been a machinist. 

I know it's a never used item and still won't be in operations but it's more just for consistency post robotics to operations shift.

[dessysalta]

Come to think of it, why would there even be a wiper on-ship where the masses can get at it (yes I count the RD as "the masses")? Machinists can't perform wiping (at least that's what I've gathered), the RD doesn't and probably can't do it, the OM wouldn't even if they had it and it's not like security or command can call for it (I mean, I guess the captain could, but captains are given just an insane amount of power ICly and IMHO we shouldn't be adding "literally be able to erase someone's memory on an order" to that list). Was there a point in time it was actually used and relevant ICly outside of antag events?

Edited August 18 by dessysalta

[Lmwevil]

It's been used on my IPC 5s before but otherwise I dunno. 

I could see it used in some very niche circumstances relating to an antag offship ipc who has no information to give or something or a crewmember ipc with a horrible virus. 

Having it on ship for those ultra niche circumstances is fine I think.

[hazelmouse]

11 minutes ago, dessysalta said:

Come to think of it, why would there even be a wiper on-ship where the masses can get at it (yes I count the RD as "the masses")? Machinists can't perform wiping (at least that's what I've gathered), the RD doesn't and probably can't do it, the OM wouldn't even if they had it and it's not like security or command can call for it (I mean, I guess the captain could, but captains are given just an insane amount of power ICly and IMHO we shouldn't be adding "literally be able to erase someone's memory on an order" to that list). Was there a point in time it was actually used and relevant ICly outside of antag events?

Captains can already order for someone to be marooned on a hostile planet or shoved into a cyborg, being able to order for the deletion of memories isn't so drastic. I strongly doubt it's ever been or will ever be used outside of antagonist shenanigans, but I like that it's on the ship.

On note of the wiper, I'd question why we don't just outright give it to machinists? They're the people you'd intuitively expect to have it, they already have the equipment to borg someone, why wouldn't they have the equipment to wipe someone? They can't do either without the Captain's approval and I've never seen someone stick someone into an MMI without approval short of being an antagonist. It'd save the OM or Captain the hassle of having to deliver the machinist the equipment.

[dessysalta]

52 minutes ago, hazelmouse said:

Captains can already order for someone to be marooned on a hostile planet or shoved into a cyborg, being able to order for the deletion of memories isn't so drastic.

Fair enough, but you could argue that marooning and borging are both permanent solutions that don't really leave any "residue" except for maybe the corpse in the latter case. Wiping still has the positronic and general idea of the "person" there but none of the fundamentals or experience.

52 minutes ago, hazelmouse said:

I'd question why we don't just outright give it to machinists?

Mostly an OOC thing from what I can gather. It's not given directly to antagonists nor is it in the uplink because using it on anyone else for a gimmick basically forces their hand to comply and be part of your gimmick as a slave whether they want to or not, whereas with other methods you have a fighting chance (words from admins, not me). As for non-antags, wiping isn't usually performed by machinists on-ship, rather specialists or authorities (don't quote me on that, I'm going off a vaguely related lore question from ~half a year ago).

For both things I quoted, Zavod IPCs get wiped all the time by their handlers when people who play them remember that's actually a common occurrence unless you're literally Zavod IPC Jesus to your handler so I guess you could make the argument there, but their handlers aren't machinists and most other IPC players don't wipe their IPCs regularly. The suspension of disbelief starts to fall apart when only one IPC (non-Zavodskoi and Konyanger at that) gets wiped within the last year and I dunno if it was up to the player or not (Yihwa-13, OM IIRC).

Edited August 18 by dessysalta
minor spelling mistake

[hazelmouse]

14 minutes ago, dessysalta said:

Fair enough, but you could argue that marooning and borging are both permanent solutions that don't really leave any "residue" except for maybe the corpse in the latter case. Wiping still has the positronic and general idea of the "person" there but none of the fundamentals or experience.

Mostly an OOC thing from what I can gather. It's not given directly to antagonists nor is it in the uplink because using it on anyone else for a gimmick basically forces their hand to comply and be part of your gimmick as a slave whether they want to or not, whereas with other methods you have a fighting chance (words from admins, not me). As for non-antags, wiping isn't usually performed by machinists on-ship, rather specialists or authorities (don't quote me on that, I'm going off a vaguely related lore question from ~half a year ago).

For both things I quoted, Zavod IPCs get wiped all the time by their handlers when people who play them remember that's actually a common occurrence unless you're literally Zavod IPC Jesus to your handler so I guess you could make the argument there, but their handlers aren't machinists and most other IPC players don't wipe their IPCs regularly. The suspension of disbelief starts to fall apart when only one IPC (non-Zavodskoi and Konyanger at that) gets wiped within the last year and I dunno if it was up to the player or not (Yihwa-13, OM IIRC).

I honestly never quite understood the angle for it not being in the uplink for those reasons, being as this is a server with vampire thralls, cultists, etcetera. I don't see the harm in wiping as a routine matter of maintenance being delegated down to machinists on-ship. I think the more stuff that can occur in the actual game rather than offscreen, the better. 

Failing it being given to machinists, though, I agree with Wevil that it'd fit far better with the OM than the RD. If it were at least in the same department as the machinists it might see a little more acknowledgement and use. 

[Faye <3]

Wiping an IPC is effectively round-ending for that IPC, the same as killing a human character. You could argue that you could maybe do some like, shreds of memory or personality being jogged, but those sorts of thing take a while and our rounds are only two hours long. I do not think it should be easily accessed - I effectively only play IPCs, and my idea of fun isn't playing a freshly wiped IPC with no memories or personality aside from baseline. Comparing it to cultist or thralling or another manner of antagonist conversion is not at all the same.

With a cult or thrall or something, there's still the personality and experiences of the individual left - just warped or controlled. You can play someone who's conflicted, or hates their vampire sire, or uses the memories and friendships they had before they were cult'd to get more members. You can't do any of that if you're wiped. You effectively become a non-character. For an IPC, there is nothing left. You're effectively playing a new character. I don't want to play a new character, I want to play my character. It shouldn't be easily accessible at all, in my opinion. 

Edited August 18 by Faye <3

[hazelmouse]

5 hours ago, Faye &lt;3 said:

Wiping an IPC is effectively round-ending for that IPC, the same as killing a human character. You could argue that you could maybe do some like, shreds of memory or personality being jogged, but those sorts of thing take a while and our rounds are only two hours long. I do not think it should be easily accessed - I effectively only play IPCs, and my idea of fun isn't playing a freshly wiped IPC with no memories or personality aside from baseline. Comparing it to cultist or thralling or another manner of antagonist conversion is not at all the same.

With a cult or thrall or something, there's still the personality and experiences of the individual left - just warped or controlled. You can play someone who's conflicted, or hates their vampire sire, or uses the memories and friendships they had before they were cult'd to get more members. You can't do any of that if you're wiped. You effectively become a non-character. For an IPC, there is nothing left. You're effectively playing a new character. I don't want to play a new character, I want to play my character. It shouldn't be easily accessible at all, in my opinion. 

This is totally fair, completely down to preference. I will note that the wiper gives the wiped IPC the option to ghost as soon as it's complete for what I assume is exactly this reason - if you took that option, and the antagonist complained that you didn't stick around, I'd say that's very bad sportsmanship from the antagonist. There is a built-in opt out if you don't want to play a near non-character, you can explain it away in-character as the wipe having rendered the IPC unresponsive.

[Carver]

I’m not sure it should be any more accessible given it’s the IPC equivalent of having a cattle bolt gun. As for OMs getting it, OMs aren’t all machinists. RDs ostensibly have more synth sway given they’re entrusted with the AI.

[Fluffy]

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/19803