Enkas failing to Role-play correctly

[Shadowhunter215]

BYOND Key: Shadowhunter215

Player Byond Key: Enkas

Staff involved: none

Reason for complaint: During a nuke op round, Enkas (playing as the chaplain)attempted to come into the bridge knowing me and the rest of the nuke ops were in the bridge, as a result he had most of his limbs removed via energy sword. Approximately 15-25 minutes later he came back into the bridge in a wheelchair with a metal bat, and I proceeded to try and use pain to convince him to leave by Punching him, instead of trying to run away like a normal person he retaliated and hit me (A nuke op with a gun in my hand ready to shoot him) and got lucky as the first hit knocked me out, and once again, running from my team would have made logical sense and our instincts would tell us to run from danger of harm to the body, but he proceeded to stay and beat me with a bat into critical until he was finally killed by a member of my team without even trying to run beforehand. I do not believe the player had any viable role-play reason to even think about staying if it meant his death, and thus I think this player should be punished or at least given a warning about his actions.

Approximate Date/Time: May,12,2015 approximately 5:45-5:55 PM, US-6 or US central time zone

[enkas]

Right. So let's get this straight.

First off, I do agree that I rambo'd, and this is one of actually very few characters that I face problems head-on.

Anyways, being a lawfully stupid character, and a paladin port from another game, this character was quite enraged by the murders and decapitations the ops did. He found it as his duty to at least give his best, in order to stop this, as the security force was completely curbed.

Now.. You say that I fail to RP, yet I actually bothered writing my emotes, up until you tased the first time, while I was mid-of it. But I was completely fine with that, as my character did show intent to harm the ops. Nonetheless, I got released, after getting a holy relic stolen (which has gotten Hartam fanatically enraged), immediately got back, and get tased again. And while you are speaking of ''most of his limbs'', it was actually a single leg.. I roleplayed pain, and was immediately pumped with painkillers, and put into a wheelchair. My character, being what he is, and following one of the virtues he preaches, which is Tenacity, charged in one last time. I emoted having a metal bat in my hand, and yet you still walked into mellee range and retaliated in beating you up. Being completely fanatical about getting his relic back, he did not care for cover, and just continued on attacking.

;TDLR, my fanatical priest character had a perfectly good reason for it

So please, stop telling me how to role-play my characters.

[Shadowhunter215]

playing as such a religious character is fine up to a point. But let me ask you this question, would nanotrasen Hire anyone with any background that even suggests the possibility of getting so absurdly outraged that they are inclined to ignore all sense of right and wrong and go after and attempt to murder someone who has taken an object that can easily be replaced, and we are talking about a religious character in the first place, which makes me wonder if they have that much respect for their religion as most seem to keep murder off the table. Now as for the nuke ops murdering several friends/coworkers, I agree that it would piss off pretty much everyone in the world if they found out someone had murdered a lot of the people they know, but I don't think that someone would immediately decide to go after the individuals if they are armored, have many weapons at their disposal, and have teammates ready to murder you the instant you try and retaliate. Although I can imagine it would be VERY hard for someone not to keep a grudge over something as horrible as that, I do think that anyone in question would at least try to acquire some formidable weapons to take revenge on the people who did something like that, and I do not mean painkillers and a baseball bat.

[enkas]

NanoTrasen already hires characters with space pirate backgrounds, as far as I could see. And no, Hartam does not have a background of being violent, but he has strong ideals for that he would stand his ground for. And the relic, is to be piece of an item carried by the religion's founder. Either way, it was not only the item that sent him to a zealous rage. It was also the murder and the decapitations. The theft was only the last straw, and being a man, roughly trained in mellee combat (Monastic order etc.etc.), and also valuing self-sacrifice for fighting what's right, he charged in, just like that. And his most formidable quality was his determination.

Either way, I don't think that this conversation will go very far, if we continue to repeat exactly the same things. How about we get someone else's opinion here? Like a staff member's?

[Frances]

People can go crazy under highly stressful circumstances - I don't believe someone losing their shit because terrorists are attacking their workplace really falls under the same rules that prevent people from losing their shit during a normal workday for basically no reason.

Honestly, I feel like the biggest question here was, was it justified, and was it fun without being completely immersion-breaking? (Like, come on. A pissed off chaplain trying to melee nuke ops in a wheelchair is completely goofy, but there was thought, intent and effort put into it.)

Nuke ops should have the equipment to deal with a few unruly crewmembers, as well. And this wasn't an instance of someone being terribly shitty, like running around while refusing to be a hostage or inciting everyone to revolve. It was just a pissed off, legless chaplain, with a grudge to hold.

Edit: Maybe the other side of the medal here is that I don't believe characters should be overstepping their qualifications too much, especially regarding combat. But while some have done it out of malicious or powergaming intents (the sexy 20-year old nurse that power disarms an antag and immediately tables them), I'm not sure if there was such an abuse here. (Well, you were beaten into crit. By an old priest in a wheelchair. But as a player, I'm really not sure if I want to dismiss cases like that as "well, it's ss13 and it was funny" or actually take issue with them.)

Edited May 13, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

As one of the nuke ops who saw the OP get beat into crit by an unhinged and shamed chaplain (who shortly got their head cut off with a lightsaber), I didn't really see it as an issue. The chaplain's symbols were taken and he was basically asking for death at that point.

It was fucking hilarious at any rate, I personally did not have an issue with it. There was leadup to the event and I wasn't bothered by it myself. If I were in that position, though, I wouldn't have even been beaten into crit to begin with :c

Sorry you had a bad experience, though, OP.

[Nik]

As one of the nuke ops who saw the OP get beat into crit by an unhinged and shamed chaplain (who shortly got their head cut off with a lightsaber), I didn't really see it as an issue. The chaplain's symbols were taken and he was basically asking for death at that point.

It was fucking hilarious at any rate, I personally did not have an issue with it. There was leadup to the event and I wasn't bothered by it myself. If I were in that position, though, I wouldn't have even been beaten into crit to begin with :c

Sorry you had a bad experience, though, OP.

 

We aren't goon. If something is funny, it doesn't excuse what happened.

I hate to delve into these swamps of misery and stupidity, but no man in their right mind would attempt such a thing (In a fucking wheelchair, no less). Secondly, being able to swing a baseball bat would require the use of your legs, as you'd need to be grounded to not fling your ass out of the chair.

Thirdly, That's silly. A priest shouldn't be trying to fight armed Ops.

[Guest]

I roleplayed with Hartam the same night on a Cult Round. He is a religiously devout man that is very protective over the crew and his religious object is litrerally the top of the Head of his religion's staff, I can totally see why he'd try to fight them. Some people lose their fear when their God is behind them.

[Guest]

As one of the nuke ops who saw the OP get beat into crit by an unhinged and shamed chaplain (who shortly got their head cut off with a lightsaber), I didn't really see it as an issue. The chaplain's symbols were taken and he was basically asking for death at that point.

It was fucking hilarious at any rate, I personally did not have an issue with it. There was leadup to the event and I wasn't bothered by it myself. If I were in that position, though, I wouldn't have even been beaten into crit to begin with :c

Sorry you had a bad experience, though, OP.

 

We aren't goon. If something is funny, it doesn't excuse what happened.

I hate to delve into these swamps of misery and stupidity, but no man in their right mind would attempt such a thing (In a fucking wheelchair, no less). Secondly, being able to swing a baseball bat would require the use of your legs, as you'd need to be grounded to not fling your ass out of the chair.

Thirdly, That's silly. A priest shouldn't be trying to fight armed Ops.

 

What's wrong with goon? What kind of comparison are you drawing to draw here? What happened was actually interesting and it was the fault of the nuke op who got beat into crit for just standing there while taking 6+ blows to the head from a metal bat (he literally just stood there doing nothing for the chaplain to get in six hits). They let a civilian with a melee weapon close the distance despite the fact we had more than sufficient ammunition to go around and about.

The priest actually wasn't fighting the ops at first. At some point one of the squad decided to go around pissing people off. I imagine they pissed off the chaplain by destroying their religious idol. There was lead-up to the point where they completely lost their sense of self-preservation.

[Nik]

"What's wrong with goon"

I don't think I need to respond to that, on just the basis that You seem to forget we are on a Heavy RP server and that funny doesn't equal legitimate roleplay.

I'm out. I don't even.

[Guest]

And apparently you didn't read the rest of my post either, which provided delicious context that you so desired.

[Nik]

Your response only proves the nature of what these foul comments have become, more then anything else. You started with "what's wrong with goon?" And furthered towards a point that I have no interest in debating over without context of why any player would be standing still during such a thing, and didn't touch on my actual point of "funny doesn't mean it's valid"

Why I am even bothering to respond is beyond me, but if you've not noticed this isn't a war-zone, mate. We ain't here to fight like we are on different sides.

To my actual feelings, I don't think the situation was particularly reasonable, and it lacks any sort of depth, but it's not worth discussion as it's just a thing that has occurred. Unless this character constantly throws himself at armed terrorists while in a wheelchair, who gives a fiddle unless it occurs again.

[Frances]

As much as certain people would like for the server to be serious 24/7, you cannot deny that that a certain (non-minor) part of the server occasionally engages in a variety of non-serious acts, and that things far worse, both in terms of planning and RP usefulness, go completely unchecked and uncared for.

I believe the reason why this is being brought up now is because someone was beaten into crit over somewhat silly circumstances, which wasn't enjoyable for them. And it's frankly a conundrum because you can argue why it was bad, and there are rules against terribly ridiculous acts, but they're generally not enforced if the roleplay provided is both of a certain quality and hilarity.

[Shadowhunter215]

1138 just to clear something up just a bit, first of all I did not even see that he had a bat..only that he was inside a firelock, thus making ranged weapons useless..and he was clearly waiting for me to come up to him. Also who the hell would come back after someone cut their leg off....I don't care what kind of drugs you're on at the time

[Alberyk]

In that round, Tarasque was very mean to Hartam in several ways, like force feeding him several cookies and stealing a holy symbol of his religion, also he just cut off one of his legs. So, he had a good reason to be pissed at all. Also, Enkas just emoted he had a bat on his hands, so, saying that you didn't see the weapon is quite untrue. The op in question just started to punch the chaplain, while some shots from a ranged weapon would finish him off without any question.

Also, Shadowhunter215 is complaining about bad roleplay from someone, while he just tased Enkas in the middle of an emote. And in other round, while I, as the unathi officer Yinzr, was taking part in a melee duel against another op who just challenged me to it, Shadowhunter215 just shot upon me without a single word, killing me. So, before complaing about others rp, you should consider your actions in said round and others, like firing upon the engineers and just killing me in the middle of my rp with another antag.

Never underestimate your opponent, you tried to punch someone with a bat and lost it, when you could have killed him using any other means.

[PoZe]

Shadow, I will not call it loos of RP. Because Enkas did something seriosuly surprising and unexpectable - his character is Old insane man. So there is not "Loose of RP or LRP". I would say that he provided us with RP and some Interest and I a sure most of the people can confirm that and admit a compimentls to that actions.

P.S. I were one of the OP in that round nickname PASTOR. I saw how you were just standig for 10-15 seconds while he was beating you.

[Guest]

I believe the reason why this is being brought up now is because someone was beaten into crit over somewhat silly circumstances, which wasn't enjoyable for them. And it's frankly a conundrum because you can argue why it was bad, and there are rules against terribly ridiculous acts, but they're generally not enforced if the roleplay provided is both of a certain quality and hilarity.

 

"A roleplay situation escalated to the point in which I was negatively affected by it and inevitably taken out of the round for awhile, conflict or no. I'm upset about this because this occurred."

This is probably more along the lines of what everyone feels when a conflict results in themselves getting beat up. Yes, everyone still wants to be in the round, but everyone also still wants to be center stage in the moment with all the spotlights on them.

Honestly, take it from this perspective. Would you want to die? Would you want to get beaten into crit right after shooting up some doods in their own base? No, of course not, but that's the risk you're likely to take as an actual terrorist. Assuming you could make some judgement after your death, I'd imagine you'd be very pissed off that you died at the hands of another because you thought you were gooder at robusting.

It's honestly an issue with sportsmanship and everyone gets upset by it at one point or another. Yes, eeeeeveryone.

Death is a part of the game and as long as there was some meaningful interaction up until that point, it's a validkill in the scope of roleplay.

[Jamini]

"A roleplay situation escalated to the point in which I was negatively affected by it and inevitably taken out of the round for awhile, conflict or no. I'm upset about this because this occurred."

This is probably more along the lines of what everyone feels when a conflict results in themselves getting beat up. Yes, everyone still wants to be in the round, but everyone also still wants to be center stage in the moment with all the spotlights on them.

 

I concur with this statement, and will openly admit to similar feelings myself when I get beaten.

Which is why lately I've been trying to only object to people being permanently taken out of the round. (Which yes, I do slip up. Even often.) It's hard to keep a perfectly level head when playing as an antagonist, and sometimes one will make rather nasty mistakes.

[Guest]

I know it sucks majorly, to die. It really does.

The way the game is designed, however, as well as how our code/combat is balanced from everyone else's, it is ridiculously easy to kill and ridiculously easy to die as well.

[Jamini]

I know it sucks majorly, to die. It really does.

The way the game is designed, however, as well as how our code/combat is balanced from everyone else's, it is ridiculously easy to kill and ridiculously easy to die as well.

 

It is also generally very easy to clone bodies. Assuming someone doesn't go out of their way to remove heads/brains/cremate. Normally you need to go to a lot of effort to prevent someone from coming back in. (or blow them up). Antagonists may not always have this option, but one must remember that they often have a significant equipment advantage over standard station staff.

Overall it's probably best if we all step back and bit and try to be a little less touchy about being beaten and dying. Really it's not so bad unless you happen to end up unclonable. (Also I will point out, I am a very heavy advocate of cloning antagonists!)

[Shadowhunter215]

so basically the consensus here is that most of my accusations are from an overload of salt and jelly. If so then ok, I am wrong, everyone is wrong at some point and there are no exceptions

[Guest]

it's alright to be wrong and mad sometimes. everyone gets like that and I don't blame you.

basically, I'd just say everyone follow the example that we probably shouldn't rush at nuke ops with metal bats unless we have good reason to and not make it a habit. likewise, we should at least try to be a sport about death. if it happens and you're questioning it, ahelp if what happened was a validkill or not.

[Frances]

so basically the consensus here is that most of my accusations are from an overload of salt and jelly. If so then ok, I am wrong, everyone is wrong at some point and there are no exceptions

I can't speak for others, but I understand your frustrations, and my intent wasn't to dismiss your complaint on the simple ground that you lost a fight.

The incident that happened, while justified in a SS13-universe, still remains incredibly silly. I haven't seen it a habit for staff to punish users solely for doing silly things, as long as these things are roleplayed properly and carry some comedic worth (so that's why for example you'll see chefs making impossible food items all the time, even though it's technically not super realistic.)

There is no clear policy on what to do when these "silly" incidents end up creating roleplay that a player is dissatisfied with due to the silliness being immersion-breaking. Some people mind, some people don't. These incidents are usually dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

Anyway, I wouldn't consider the complaint thrown out yet. Keep in mind the final decision belongs to the staff, and admins or mods have yet to post on this thread.

[Baka]

Hartam had been pushed to the edge, and from what I have seen, did try to emote his actions but was also shot at. There was build up trying to happen but it was cut short by a nuke op tasing him. The nuke op ended up getting knocked into critical by the baseball bat. That's all well and dandy.

However...

A limb was cut off of Hartam which should had sent a clear warning that the nuke ops meant business. After losing your limb, do you go back and pursue the person who removed it in a wheelchair knowing you were lucky the first time and he may slice you up? Is this justifiable?

While I see this as conflict building up, Hartam does have a history of being hellbent when pursuing whoever he has his line of target on. It also raises up two things from our rules:

 

Generally, avoid playing hero. There are certain opportunities every character can seize to overthrow an antagonist, but going rambo on syndicate ops as a frail, unarmed medical doctor constitutes a failure to roleplay and will likely end with you getting shot. Also, if you are unarmed, and being held at gunpoint, it is generally expected for you to comply with your captor, or risk suffering the consequences.

 

and

 

Avoid pain. A sane, well-rounded character would not engage in actions that are overly painful, or put themselves in harm's way without consideration (e.g. going EVA without a suit, stabbing themselves repeatedly, or continue to run at someone after being shot multiple times.)

 

Hartam was lucky to have escape, but going back and smacking someone after being sparred once seems a bit like playing to win.

[Frances]

Hartam was lucky to have escape, but going back and smacking someone after being sparred once seems a bit like playing to win.

Legitimate question: what exactly is Enkas trying to win, though?

I was under the impression rules against cases of extreme ramboing were generally put in place to prevent about 90% of people playing hero when it's totally not called for, and frankly idiotic and/or detrimental to roleplay (case in point: nuke ops decide to take hostages among the science team - the science team all reacts by rushing the ops and trying to disarm them.)

In this case, would you say the actions of Enkas' character created good roleplay, or not? And I'm mostly asking Shadowhunter, but this question goes out to everyone here.