1 dismissal Add Borg Sprites to IPC

[Mr.Popper]

What? Add all (or at least the highest quality) borg sprites as an IPC subspecies.

How? Ideally they would all fall under the same subspecies as opposed to a dozen extra subspecies for every sprite, but I'm not sure if that's doable. Maybe hairstyle chicanery? If not, at least a few of the non-humanoid sprites would be cool. Customization would mostly have to be in the form of body marking recoloring since a lot of the sprites aren't humanoid and thus incompatible with normal clothes.

Why? Borgs have a lot of cool sprites and it's a shame they're relegated to just, well, borgs. IPCs are lacking in "generic" models except for baselines and shells, so adding another homebrew-friendly option would be much appreciated. Also it would be interesting to see more non-humanoid IPCs. Seeing a drone IPC hovering around or a crab scurrying down the hall and realizing "Oh that's my coworker" would really cement the idea that the species is new, diverse, and most importantly, alien. There's a precedent here with the weirder Vaurcaesian bioforms like Bulwark.

Cons:

• Someone has to code it.
• The borg sprites would naturally be incompatible with most item/clothing sprites. I'm sure a lot of the simpler ones like hats could be made workable but, going back to the Vaurca example, Bulwarks are incompatible with most loadout items and do just fine.
• It might blur the line between the synth and AI teams and create unwanted confusion between them.
• With the IPC medical rework in progress, stopping to add a whole new subspecies would be very inconvenient for the devs. Waiting until the rework is done and there's a basis for adding new subspecies would probably be best.

Pros:

• The sprites are already made. At most body markings would need to be sprited. 
• Solidifying non-humanoid IPCs as a common thing would, IMO, add a lot of interest to the species. How much less eye-catching would Vaurcae be without Breeders and Bulwarks?
• Blurs the line between cyborgs and IPCs. This could be undesirable from an OOC standpoint, but IC borgs tend to be a roleplay blackhole where it's common for even IPCs/pro-synth people to treat them like non-entities without repercussion. Bridging the gap (at least visually) between them and IPCs would encourage both more nuanced treatment of borgs and dehumanization of IPCs, depending on a character's beliefs.
• More variety for characters and the species as a whole. Borgs have very nondescript designs megacorp-wise, so they would be perfect for representing homebrew models and non-SCC synths originating from places like Elyra or even Einstein Engines. 

[Comet Blaze]

I believe this fails to account for the massive issue that is how these sprites handle equipable items or really just any item in general. Cyborg sprites are static, no matter what items they have equipped it will always stay the same, the reason they can get away with this is because what items they have access to is limited by whatever module they have selected at any given time, so you can still tell what to expect at a glance. This is immediately undone when you move them to an inventory system like every other species. Ignoring things like armour and clothing, which these non-humanoid IPCs would need to be barred from using, how would we handle things like weapons? This is something you need to be able to quickly tell at a glance and you can't just stick our existing in-hand sprites on them as, at least in my opinion, that would look silly, so you'd be forced to sprite a ton of new ones, at which point you might as well just a make a new chassis which works with our current in-hand sprites.

 

I will say that I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of non-humanoid IPCs, I think it'd be a neat thing, but just reusing our current cyborg sprites isn't the way to go. They would need dedicated sprites for them and all in all, it would be a similar workload to the one it took to add bulwarks into the game.

[Fluffy]

They look different because they are different, both in lore and mechanics, ontop of needing to account for the rendering of accessories/suits, inhand objects and whatnot that would be a lot of work for essentially nothing. It would literally take less time to draw new IPC sprites that conform to what we currently expect than to code in all the exceptions to reuse the borg sprites on them.

Voting for dismissal.

[greenjoe]

While I do like the idea of non-humanoid IPC forms, this way of it doesn't really feel like the right way.

[Mr.Popper]

6 hours ago, Comet Blaze said:

Ignoring things like armour and clothing, which these non-humanoid IPCs would need to be barred from using, how would we handle things like weapons?

I thought clothes showing as invisible on them would be innocuous, it's not problematic on Bulwarks, but you're right. I didn't consider the PVP or balance angle of armor/weapon visibility. If it's going to be a whole process of drastically respriting them then that defeats the point of recycling the borg sprites.

Should I make a new suggestion for adding non-humanoid synths or retool this thread to that specific discussion?

[NerdyVampire]

I don't personally see the appeal in making IPCs have those options. I like that there is a clear distinction that says "if they look like humanoids, they are to be treated as crew" and "if not, they are to be treated as equipment". To blur the lines as you suggest is something I'd rather prevent than encourage honestly, even though I can see how it might bring some variety to the game, which I am usually in favor of.

[Sniblet]

Though the lore exists to serve us and can change as we please, it’s currently written that all IPCs are humanoid in order to capitalize on the positronic brain’s adaptability (with it taken for granted that non-humanoid chassis are, somehow, necessarily not adaptable). That would need to be stricken from the wiki.

I do want to see unbranded chassis options, but it sounds like it would be loads easier to just make alt sprites for the Baseline (though even they’re made of Hephaestus Integrated limbs, which is a bruh moment on a historic scale).

Edited January 4 by Sniblet

[Mr.Popper]

On 03/01/2025 at 01:42, NerdyVampire said:

I don't personally see the appeal in making IPCs have those options. I like that there is a clear distinction that says "if they look like humanoids, they are to be treated as crew" and "if not, they are to be treated as equipment".

It's definitely convenient OOC to be able to tell if someone is a borg or IPC at a glance, but blurring the line compliments the lore in a way I think outweighs that. Legally, IPCs are not people, they're barely even crew. I think making them more different from humans rather than less would spark interest and make that bit of discrimination lore easier to engage with, although at the end of the day that's up to synth lore and their vision for the species. I will say, especially based off the reactions in this thread, creating original non-humanoid sprites rather than recycling borgs' would appear far more polished and alleviate the OOC concern of sussing out borgs at a glance without affecting the roleplay. Borgs were my first thought because I imagined closer ties with IPCs would give a low-RP role more interactions to work with.

On 04/01/2025 at 18:02, Sniblet said:

Though the lore exists to serve us and can change as we please, it’s currently written that all IPCs are humanoid in order to capitalize on the positronic brain’s adaptability (with it taken for granted that non-humanoid chassis are, somehow, necessarily not adaptable). That would need to be stricken from the wiki.

That's true. Assuming synth lore isn't cooking something in secret, I figured it was just a gameplay limitation as it wouldn't make much sense for the ancient drones that IPCs are based off of to be humanoid. Then again, every alien race except Dionae is naturally humanoid, so maybe that is the case. It's completely up to lore.

[pocheto]

2 hours ago, Mr.Popper said:

it wouldn't make much sense for the ancient drones that IPCs are based off of to be humanoid.

Just noting that humans made the chassis and only copied the brains, iirc.

[wowzewow]

Honestly, I'm all for this - it's just that AI and Cyborgs need to be removed if this happens.

 

I'll be frank here - AI and Cyborg are on death's door on this server. They're overpowered, and only held back by AI laws that only really work in LRP - MRP enviroments as a power limiter.

Unfortunately for us, this also limits their roleplay capabilities to have as much personality as a sentient roomba. There is no good reason to play one in the year of our lord 2025.

 

At this point, IPCs and Borgs basically step on each others toes to a fault, and I think it's time to actually just bring this one out back and make the final curtain call.

It's just up to the IPC lore team to handle it.

 

EDIT : As for sprites, I think this is an non-issue. And this is coming from the Head Spriter (i.e, me). Just disable inhands if it's really bad (and even then, it's nearly the same case for bulwarks for just adjusting a few x and y values) and only allow hats to be equipped. The rest can be implants or whatever.

 

Ironically, the last thing I'd want is for my effort making these Cyborg sprites to go to waste by being basically seen once in a blue moon.

Edited January 7 by wowzewow