Could we remove cloning?

[Jamini]

Pros

-Saving someone from death acquires more meaning for others - there is an even bigger meaning and sense of urgency in saving critical patients, getting people to safety when they are wounded, and so on. Cause if you fail, you fail for good.

-THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE. DYING IS ALREADY VERY LIKELY TO CAUSE YOU TO BE PERMANENTLY GONE.

-Death-heavy rounds are more dramatic - while when people currently die in droves most already don't get cloned, there would no longer be a notion that these people can be cloned or recovered later. They're just, gone, forever.

ARE YOU EVEN CONSIDERING THAT A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOATHE AND ACTIVELY AVOID SUCH ROUNDS? OR HOW MANY PEOPLE HATE PERMADEATH?

-Deaths are more impactful. As an antag, killing the HoS would really send a message to the station that you are an unstoppable force hell-bent on destruction.

-NOBODY BUT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CLOSE TO THE DECEASED WILL ACTUALLY GIVE A FUCK. NO IT WON'T MAKE MOST DEATHS MORE IMPACTFUL

-It opens up a lot of opportunities for death/grieving RP. Hold funerals and memorial services! Most of the emotions would be focused on the person having actually died, rather than "well, we should see if we can clone them."

-THIS ALREADY HAPPENS.

-It spares us from the awkward roleplay of "my coworker just got killed brutally and returned to work within 30 minutes and now I gotta act like nothing happened."

-DEALING WITH THIS LEADS TO INTERESTING ROLE-PLAY

-It's more about getting rid of the "idea" cloning brings than getting rid of cloning alone. Even if most people that die in a round don't get cloned, death doesn't feel final. It'd be a lot cooler if it did.

-CLONING OPENS UP MORE DOORS FOR ROLEPLAY IN A HIGH-TECH ENVIRONMENT THAN NOT HAVING IT DOES. QUESTIONS OF THE SOUL, IF A CLONE IS THE SAME PERSON, AND "WHAT DO I DO IF I HAVE CLONE" ARE ALL VALID AND VERY GOOD ROLEPLAY. REMOVING THAT WILL ACTIVELY REDUCE ROLEPLAY

-Did I already mention people fucking die? Yesssssss. How cool is that?

-DEAD PEOPLE CANNOT ROLEPLAY. REMOVING CLONING WILL REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF RP ON THE SERVER.

Cons

-Dying for any reason would prevent you from playing your character again during that round.

-MANY MANY PLAYERS HAVE ONLY ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS THEY PLAY. THIS CHANGE WOULD MAKE THEM UNABLE TO PARTICIPATE IF KILLED

-Characters' deaths could no longer be kept canon without being final.

-THIS IS LITERALLY HITLER

-Cloning-related RP would no longer be possible on station (cloning could be kept in the lore as something more expensive/uncommon to preserve backstories involving clones).

-Geneticists would lose a (small) part of their jobs.

GENETICISTS WOULD LOSE THEIR PRIMARY PURPOSE

-People might WILL simply not care about deaths anyway should they choose not to, as they already ignore other of the frequent-but-grisly SS13 happenings.

-You will actively drive many players away from the server

-You will forcibly retcon many backstories

-A CORE MECHANIC OF THE GAME WHICH MANY MECHANICS ARE BALANCED AROUND WILL BE REMOVED

-One SHITTY ANTAGONIST WILL BE ABLE TO UTTERLY RUIN THE ROUND FOR LARGE NUMBERS OF PLAYERS

 

This change is a horribly terrible idea. Do not do it. Do not do it. Do not do it.

If you do not like being cloned, then fucking put a DO NOT CLONE in your file. Don't go forcing your fetish for funeral RP onto the rest of us.

This idea is BAD, in big flaming capital letters.

As a final word from me

 

Dead People Do not Role-play.

Removing Cloning Will Not Increase the Amount of Role-Play.

Period.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Guest

[Erik Tiber]

Imma just second what Jamini wrote.

Also like. Brosky they're sorta right on their points.

[swat43]

Welp! I hope this will end up fast then, since i also DO NOT like having cloning removed. It's like the same as cutting selfs arm off.

[nanotoxin]

R.I.P. this thread.

I think this was an argument doomed to perish from the start, and our dear friend Jamini just stuck it 6ft in the ground.

[VoltageHero]

I was HoP once, and was dying from a popped lung, Medical didnt prioritize me, and when they finally got to me, they couldny treat me, so they just said "We'll let you die and then clone you, dont worry"

 

With this thread's idea, you wouldn't even have the option to be cloned, in that situation.

You'd just be gone from the round all together.

[Guest]

Boy, I can't wait to test out my Rapid syringeguns with chloral/muta/lexorin, gas grenades, sleepy pens and revolver+ammo and effectively remove 8-10 players from the round in a few minutes when we actually consider testing this.

I would certainly eat a ban for it to prove the point Jamini's trying to make. Permadeath is stupid, but it is ridiculously easy to achieve and inflict upon others. Death is cheap. Death is common. A single round that goes by without a single person getting themselves killed is a very rare one.

Preventing that one person from getting back into the round with their favorite character because of some bullschiesse excuse of a lethal game mechanic decides to off them because lulz, is inherently stupid. Players themselves SHOULD get second chances.

[Jakers457]

I remember trying to talk about cloning in the Heads section and particular people got salty about me bringing it up.

If I were to suggest anything Frances, there are people who'll lose their shit if you even mention the word cloning. We'll just have to hope people learn to actually give a fuck about people dying albeit whether or not they'll be cloned.

[Rusty Shackleford]

As a final word from me

 

Dead People Do not Role-play.

Removing Cloning Will Not Increase the Amount of Role-Play.

Period.

 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Guest

[nanotoxin]

If you want funeral RP and all that jazz, just throw a DNC into your medical records.

[witchbells]

Jamini said it better than I did.

[Rusty Shackleford]

[Frances]

Pros

-Saving someone from death acquires more meaning for others - there is an even bigger meaning and sense of urgency in saving critical patients, getting people to safety when they are wounded, and so on. Cause if you fail, you fail for good.

-THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE. DYING IS ALREADY VERY LIKELY TO CAUSE YOU TO BE PERMANENTLY GONE.

Anybody with a complete body/head can be cloned. I have rarely seen people display any emotions about others dying due to what they believe to be their own actions' or someone else's. Whenever it has happened, the person has always seemed display anger at someone else's perceived incompetence. Little of the emotions are directed at the death of the person, because ICly death is no longer assumed to be final.

-Death-heavy rounds are more dramatic - while when people currently die in droves most already don't get cloned, there would no longer be a notion that these people can be cloned or recovered later. They're just, gone, forever.

ARE YOU EVEN CONSIDERING THAT A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOATHE AND ACTIVELY AVOID SUCH ROUNDS? OR HOW MANY PEOPLE HATE PERMADEATH?

These people do not play to get cloned in massive groups. They will be upset the moment they die, whether they get cloned or not.

-Deaths are more impactful. As an antag, killing the HoS would really send a message to the station that you are an unstoppable force hell-bent on destruction.

-NOBODY BUT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CLOSE TO THE DECEASED WILL ACTUALLY GIVE A FUCK. NO IT WON'T MAKE MOST DEATHS MORE IMPACTFUL

Being able to permanently remove a target would give more impact to antagonists' play. You can't deny that killing someone only to see them cloned right after is lame and anticlimactic. And when you actually take means to ensure your target cannot be cloned (which is what you would do if you were planning to intently kill anyone) you get told that it's a no-no because it removes them from the round.

-It opens up a lot of opportunities for death/grieving RP. Hold funerals and memorial services! Most of the emotions would be focused on the person having actually died, rather than "well, we should see if we can clone them."

-THIS ALREADY HAPPENS.

It barely does, because the existence of cloning puts all the focus on that. People simply worry about fixing the body and get it to a cloning scanner as soon as possible - once that's happen, even if it fails, most seem to have forgotten someone has even died. The counter-argument to that would be that people that simply forget do not actually care, and that anyone interested in staging these events would already be able to go out of their way to do so.

-It spares us from the awkward roleplay of "my coworker just got killed brutally and returned to work within 30 minutes and now I gotta act like nothing happened."

-DEALING WITH THIS LEADS TO INTERESTING ROLE-PLAY

This is subjective. Some people like it, some find it more immersion-breaking than having the person simply die. It is as much of a pro as it is a con, which is why I listed it on both.

-It's more about getting rid of the "idea" cloning brings than getting rid of cloning alone. Even if most people that die in a round don't get cloned, death doesn't feel final. It'd be a lot cooler if it did.

-CLONING OPENS UP MORE DOORS FOR ROLEPLAY IN A HIGH-TECH ENVIRONMENT THAN NOT HAVING IT DOES. QUESTIONS OF THE SOUL, IF A CLONE IS THE SAME PERSON, AND "WHAT DO I DO IF I HAVE CLONE" ARE ALL VALID AND VERY GOOD ROLEPLAY. REMOVING THAT WILL ACTIVELY REDUCE ROLEPLAY

Same as above. It does remove roleplay - the obvious tradeoff is that it would bring more under different circumstances.

-Did I already mention people fucking die? Yesssssss. How cool is that?

-DEAD PEOPLE CANNOT ROLEPLAY. REMOVING CLONING WILL REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF RP ON THE SERVER.

If I understand you right, you are saying that people being killed diminishes the amount/quality of roleplay in the game, which is plainly false because deaths can have a great impact on a round. (There's a greater argument to be found here, but you'll have to dig deeper.)

Cons

-Dying for any reason would prevent you from playing your character again during that round.

-MANY MANY PLAYERS HAVE ONLY ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS THEY PLAY. THIS CHANGE WOULD MAKE THEM UNABLE TO PARTICIPATE IF KILLED

This is the main thing that I'm afraid of. But I'm also thinking 1. Death is pretty rare unless you're chasing trouble and 2. HRP rounds are extremely slow-paced and people already wait/idle a ton if things aren't going their way (waiting an entire round because someone took their job slot, or they don't like the gamemode, or the person they want to RP with isn't there.) If this change had the potential to change the way people perceive every character death (which is what remains to be proven), then having a few people occasionally lose out an hour or two of a game they can play for up to 10 hours a day (while idling and doing a ton of other stuff) is a minor trade-off, from an utilitarian standpoint.

-Characters' deaths could no longer be kept canon without being final.

-THIS IS LITERALLY HITLER

Cloning would still exist in-lore. People could easily retcon their deaths as grave injuries, and keep their cloning as off-station/off-company. One reason why cloning would not exist on-station - but still remain in-universe to people who want it - is that tbh, there should be very few people who actually wish to be cloned after their accidental/unpredicted death. It doesn't bring you back to life. It only creates a copy of you.

-Cloning-related RP would no longer be possible on station (cloning could be kept in the lore as something more expensive/uncommon to preserve backstories involving clones).

Already answered that one. Basically a trade-off.

-Geneticists would lose a (small) part of their jobs.

GENETICISTS WOULD LOSE THEIR PRIMARY PURPOSE

People rarely play geneticists. (It's the job in medbay you see the least.) When they do, I have not seen them play so they can clone people, but so they can either chair-RP, or mess with powers. A lot of the cloning ends up being done by the CMO or regular doctors exactly because there are no geneticists around to do it.

-People might WILL simply not care about deaths anyway should they choose not to, as they already ignore other of the frequent-but-grisly SS13 happenings.

This is the point that perplexes me the most. I would like to see the change go through as a trial, as I honestly have no idea if people will be able to care more or not. It is difficult to make assumptions on this end, as clear, focused changes have resulted in shifts in roleplay in the past.

-You will actively drive many players away from the server

lmao will people actually leave over this

-You will forcibly retcon many backstories

I already explained why this is not the case.

-A CORE MECHANIC OF THE GAME WHICH MANY MECHANICS ARE BALANCED AROUND WILL BE REMOVED

HRP is completely out of balance - SS13 was never designed for it, and simply happens to adapt relatively well. There is nothing wrong with experimenting with the balance of the game as long as the change serves a clear purpose. The only balance argument that has been brought up was the one by Sue, who claims the game is filled with cheap deaths. I retorted by explaining most players do not die regularly unless they're acting like idiots, or getting themselves in trouble all the time.

-One SHITTY ANTAGONIST WILL BE ABLE TO UTTERLY RUIN THE ROUND FOR LARGE NUMBERS OF PLAYERS

By mass-killing people? Mass killings never get cloned. They're either rejuvenated (because whatever that person did was against the rules), or the station is evacuated.

This change is a horribly terrible idea. Do not do it. Do not do it. Do not do it.

If you do not like being cloned, then fucking put a DO NOT CLONE in your file. Don't go forcing your fetish for funeral RP onto the rest of us.

My problem is around the availability of cloning in general, and procedure of cloning every death as it happens (or idea that all dead can be cloned later.) A single, or select few people refusing to be cloned does not fix this.

 

I hope this answers most of your points. They were fun to read, and a lot of them were very good additions to the debate in general.

[Jakers457]

You forgot to use caps and bold lettering

[enkas]

One thing I'd like to note about permadeath, and people not liking it, I used to roleplay in Warcraft previously, a private roleplaying server, where, while yes, combat mechanics were replaced completely by emoting, but EVERY death was final, canon, and they were common, due to the nature of the world, which is halfway fucked. Sure, there were no death by griff, but each event had a huge chance of characters who have been developed for years, as there were no such things as ''non-canon rounds'', with VERY little chance of returning (resurection was still a thing in the lore, but was VERY rare)

Either way, what I am trying to say, is to try to understand, that death should be taken seriously, instead of ''lawl, he ded, we can clone him''

[Nik]

You forgot to use caps and bold lettering

 

apparently just using fancy bits gets people to Pop on gif maker for you, clearly France's didn't want anyone doing it for him.

To an actual point, I do actually agree with the removal of cloning. Grief can be handled with admin Rez, and it might actually hold some minor fucking poignancy to someone's death.

It's a shame that I know no one will AGREE since it's a matter of "nu must be Catman-1" and with the server as is, we constantly gain the hilarious rage that occurs after every sodding death.

[Frances]

One thing I'd like to note about permadeath, and people not liking it, I used to roleplay in Warcraft previously, a private roleplaying server, where, while yes, combat mechanics were replaced completely by emoting, but EVERY death was final, canon, and they were common, due to the nature of the world, which is halfway fucked. Sure, there were no death by griff, but each event had a huge chance of characters who have been developed for years, as there were no such things as ''non-canon rounds'', with VERY little chance of returning (resurection was still a thing in the lore, but was VERY rare)

Either way, what I am trying to say, is to try to understand, that death should be taken seriously, instead of ''lawl, he ded, we can clone him''

Well, that sounds a bit too extreme for me. I remember when I joined Aurora, I spent a few rounds trying to figure out if deaths were canon or not - before realizing that having to make new characters that aren't throwaways every time you die would be a huge pain, and that people simply ignored most deaths in the favor of creating a longer narrative.

I guess there's canon and round separation. Deaths should feel impactful in an individual round, but there's a difference between that and scaring away the players themselves because they wouldn't want to lose their characters.

 

apparently just using fancy bits gets people to Pop on gif maker for you, clearly France's didn't want anyone doing it for him.

To an actual point, I do actually agree with the removal of cloning. Grief can be handled with admin Rez, and it might actually hold some minor fucking poignancy to someone's death.

It's a shame that I know no one will AGREE since it's a matter of "nu must be Catman-1" and with the server as is, we constantly gain the hilarious rage that occurs after every sodding death.

I simply don't think cloning is as much of a fix-all as people here paint it to be. I'd personally like to hear some stories of people that have been cloned following bullshit, rather than rants on how this change would be awful for everybody else.

(I also asked in OOC. The general consensus was that people were open to removing cloning. We can only defend people who don't speak so much. At some point we'll just have to proceed regardless of what we assume people who don't speak up want; else we're just creating a world based on assumptions, for a group we don't even know anything about.)

[Jakers457]

I mean, the only compromise I could really see. Would make cloning have a price, be it biomass or something else. Perhaps it causes the character to have the need to rehabilitate themselves, because let's face it, cloning is rushed and imperfect with many complications. People having their bodies torn to pieces, only to be shot out of a vat going 'Zippidy do!' and rushing off back into fray after a few shots of a syringe kind of makes death even more.... meaningless. I personally make my characters spend time in the medbay before heading out after cloning, in my mind they'd need to get used to what is literally a brand new body. It will feel different, scar tissues won't be there, your organs would be free of the pollutants involved in being brought up in a city. All these tiny details that actually would make your body feel somewhat alien in my mind.

But this is more of a discussion between roleplay etiquette VS. game mechanics. I mean, go with something that I've proposed or atleast test it for the very least. People can be paranoid, stopping every notion with what ifs and ill thoughts of others. And people can choose to be a dick and grief to prove their points (which isn't really how you should be making your arguments.) But I say it couldn't hurt to test it, nothing ventured nothing gained. And if does go horribly wrong, due to a natural course or a forced outcome by the disagreeing party then atleast the people who were right get to gloat to their heat's content and post dank GIFs to boost the mature discussion to new levels.

Edit: So many darn typos, I should really sleep more.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Guest

[nanotoxin]

This is a very valuable research station. With a nuke aboard it. CC already has knowledge of the Syndicate, and pirates and things of the sort, they know there's going to be a possibility that someone dies. They also know that science expierments could go terribly wrong. Why wouldn't they want to ensure that research is done, and they get their money? If the crew dies, they have nobody to do their research, and they're out of luck. "They'll just hire new people." You might say. But if there are numerous reported deaths there, and their not being cloned, they'll probably go work on some station that does have it. Cause yes, it's not an IC revival, it's a clone. But if something does happen to them, and they die, at least they'll have the clone to take care of their families, get the work done, and keep their legacy going.

I'm also pretty sure he means the number of people that wont join nuke rounds because they're just going to get bombed and die, with no rp-what so ever. You're putting to much faith into the causes of the deaths, thinking they'll all be just.

Deaths are already pretty much permanent. Unless the doctor rushes them to cloning just about immediatley, more likely than not, the person has ghosted and either become ERT/Mouse/Drone. This is also you having to high of hopes for the antags. If they know there's no cloning machine, what's going to stop them from spraying the people down, they're out of the round for half an hour. They'll find some way to justify it OOCly and the person who died is out for half an hour unless they join as ERT/mouse/drone.

To me, it doesn't make IC sense not to have it, and OOCly, just because some people want different rp scenario's doesn't mean a core mechanic should be removed.

[PoZe]

GUY GUYS! You are just comlitely silly in that Way. This is 2457 years... common! We cannot have such things as: Cloning, Blue-space, Space stations, IPC, AI.

We need to remove then Singulo, cloning, Gravity generator, Telecoms with Odin, Shuttles, Telescience, teleports, Pun Pun, Hologramms, AI's, Beepsky.

We are so stupid race, we wouldn't have Cloning in 2457, even if we can change DNA right now in 2015, we have first Cyborg human in UK who can control things from his nervous sytem, we have first AI in Japan and we have space station that is huge as a Stadium and in 2016 this station will be equiped with High-Voltage Laser to shot space trash. But who cares that it's 2457 year, that our lore says that it's Research Station with MEDICAL/Plasma researchs.

Frances we need to remove Mouse and Maint Drones to And make rounds for 8 hours so if you are dead you are dead Permanently so you can watch how everyone Enjoy the round while you are waiting. Good Idea Frances.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Guest

[Frances]

-lore argument-

Lore argument.

 

I'm also pretty sure he means the number of people that wont join nuke rounds because they're just going to get bombed and die, with no rp-what so ever. You're putting to much faith into the causes of the deaths, thinking they'll all be just.

I've seen people get bombed a few time during nuke. In general, they didn't get cloned, because the station was in utter chaos. Half of the crew was dead and the remaining half was focused on saving themselves. The one time I've seen people get cloned during nuke (short of the ops themselves getting cloned which was hilarious), it was a HoS who died during a bombing, which is kinda, eh. It can go both ways. But I think succeeding at taking out a major target only to see them being revived and sent back into action sorta sucks, and only serves in giving you an incentive to bomb medbay/genetics.

 

Deaths are already pretty much permanent. Unless the doctor rushes them to cloning just about immediatley, more likely than not, the person has ghosted and either become ERT/Mouse/Drone.

If this is true, then what purpose does cloning serve in the first place?

 

This is also you having to high of hopes for the antags. If they know there's no cloning machine, what's going to stop them from spraying the people down

The rules. The rules will stop them.

Also...

-lore argument-

Lore argument.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

It seems my argument to change cloning has been revived, but I see a distinct lack of albinos or long-term health benefits to make cloning more spoopy. I've gotten more RP out of it lately with my shaman lizard, who believes that cloning is simply giving the soul of the dead a new body to inhabit. Removing cloning would invalidate his religion, which I feel would be discrimination, and I've already contacted the NAAL. (National Association for the Advancement of Lizards)

[Jamini]

Pros

Anybody with a complete body/head can be cloned. I have rarely seen people display any emotions about others dying due to what they believe to be their own actions' or someone else's. Whenever it has happened, the person has always seemed display anger at someone else's perceived incompetence. Little of the emotions are directed at the death of the person, because ICly death is no longer assumed to be final.

Incorrect. They do not display emotions about others dying because they have other things to worry about. Such as additional antagonists, bombs, or a co-worker that is intolerable. People still wont give a fuck about a dead person unless they have a preexisting relationship due to the nature of the game.

-Death-heavy rounds are more dramatic - while when people currently die in droves most already don't get cloned, there would no longer be a notion that these people can be cloned or recovered later. They're just, gone, forever.

ARE YOU EVEN CONSIDERING THAT A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOATHE AND ACTIVELY AVOID SUCH ROUNDS? OR HOW MANY PEOPLE HATE PERMADEATH?

These people do not play to get cloned in massive groups. They will be upset the moment they die, whether they get cloned or not.

-Do you know how many people avoid rounds like ling and nuke because they dislike dying? Because this will make /every/ antagonist act like an oldschool ling or a shitty operative.

Being able to permanently remove a target would give more impact to antagonists' play. You can't deny that killing someone only to see them cloned right after is lame and anticlimactic. And when you actually take means to ensure your target cannot be cloned (which is what you would do if you were planning to intently kill anyone) you get told that it's a no-no because it removes them from the round.

People are told off for removing people from the round because they are removing players from the round. Making EVERY death that way will only make the problem worse. Not better. Antagonist gear and abilities have cost balanced against its ability to impact/kill/remove other players from the round. This idea totally throws those ideals of balance out the window. Removing people from play is one of the greatest sins one can commit in a multiplayer game.

-It opens up a lot of opportunities for death/grieving RP. Hold funerals and memorial services! Most of the emotions would be focused on the person having actually died, rather than "well, we should see if we can clone them."

-THIS ALREADY HAPPENS.

It barely does, because the existence of cloning puts all the focus on that. People simply worry about fixing the body and get it to a cloning scanner as soon as possible - once that's happen, even if it fails, most seem to have forgotten someone has even died. The counter-argument to that would be that people that simply forget do not actually care, and that anyone interested in staging these events would already be able to go out of their way to do so.

I've personally had funerals for MIF in the past, Jackboot has a shaman that specifically cares for dead shells. Most people don't give a flying fuck.

-It's more about getting rid of the "idea" cloning brings than getting rid of cloning alone. Even if most people that die in a round don't get cloned, death doesn't feel final. It'd be a lot cooler if it did.

-CLONING OPENS UP MORE DOORS FOR ROLEPLAY IN A HIGH-TECH ENVIRONMENT THAN NOT HAVING IT DOES. QUESTIONS OF THE SOUL, IF A CLONE IS THE SAME PERSON, AND "WHAT DO I DO IF I HAVE CLONE" ARE ALL VALID AND VERY GOOD ROLEPLAY. REMOVING THAT WILL ACTIVELY REDUCE ROLEPLAY

Same as above. It does remove roleplay - the obvious tradeoff is that it would bring more under different circumstances.

-People do not hold funerals or seriously grieve for anyone but a close friend. Those same people will simply have DIFFERENT roleplay to deal with with cloning. People without close friends on-station, however, will have no-one to grieve. Removing cloning will drive new players from the server and enforce cilque mentalities to an unhealthy level.

If I understand you right, you are saying that people being killed diminishes the amount/quality of roleplay in the game, which is plainly false because deaths can have a great impact on a round. (There's a greater argument to be found here, but you'll have to dig deeper.)

No, I am saying that removing a player from the round decreases the amount of potential RP you can have by virtue of there being fewer players in play. Death always has an impact, removing the ability to counteract death simply prevents a player from participating and RPing. The dead. Do not. Roleplay.

Cons

This is the main thing that I'm afraid of. But I'm also thinking 1. Death is pretty rare unless you're chasing trouble and 2. HRP rounds are extremely slow-paced and people already wait/idle a ton if things aren't going their way (waiting an entire round because someone took their job slot, or they don't like the gamemode, or the person they want to RP with isn't there.) If this change had the potential to change the way people perceive every character death (which is what remains to be proven), then having a few people occasionally lose out an hour or two of a game they can play for up to 10 hours a day (while idling and doing a ton of other stuff) is a minor trade-off, from an utilitarian standpoint.

10 hours a day? Are you fucking nuts?. I, and many other players, have a full time job. I am lucky if I can manage four hours of play in a day. Sometimes less.

Allow me to quote another player, one who is already on the fence on quitting Aurora:

Player: Me and XXX both got gank-killed by a cultist not too long ago, who walked in, immediately cut off our heads, and ran off.

This player would be dead. Permanently. Unable to return. I highly, highly doubt this player (who is NOT me) would stay on the server if they couldn't participate in a round because of events like that. Deaths like this are very common.

Cloning would still exist in-lore. People could easily retcon their deaths as grave injuries, and keep their cloning as off-station/off-company. One reason why cloning would not exist on-station - but still remain in-universe to people who want it - is that tbh, there should be very few people who actually wish to be cloned after their accidental/unpredicted death. It doesn't bring you back to life. It only creates a copy of you.

I hate every word of this with the fiber of my being. I cannot express how much hate this comment bring out in me. No. The very IDEA of this is absolutely fucking terrible.

People rarely play geneticists. (It's the job in medbay you see the least.) When they do, I have not seen them play so they can clone people, but so they can either chair-RP, or mess with powers. A lot of the cloning ends up being done by the CMO or regular doctors exactly because there are no geneticists around to do it.

Are we playing on the same server?

This is the point that perplexes me the most. I would like to see the change go through as a trial, as I honestly have no idea if people will be able to care more or not. It is difficult to make assumptions on this end, as clear, focused changes have resulted in shifts in roleplay in the past.

I suggest that we get a test server and run that change over THERE then. Not on main. This change is too radical and too terrible to push straight to a main, popular, server. I guarantee, you will get nothing but hate for this change.

-You will actively drive many players away from the server

lmao will people actually leave over this

Yup. Including me. I will outright say, this change would drive me to different pastures.

By mass-killing people? Mass killings never get cloned. They're either rejuvenated (because whatever that person did was against the rules), or the station is evacuated.

Do we play on the same server?

If you do not like being cloned, then fucking put a DO NOT CLONE in your file. Don't go forcing your fetish for funeral RP onto the rest of us.

My problem is around the availability of cloning in general, and procedure of cloning every death as it happens (or idea that all dead can be cloned later.) A single, or select few people refusing to be cloned does not fix this.

Cloning is readily available because death is cheap in SS13. One cannot exist without the other. The only way this would be acceptable would be if it is accompanied by an across-the-board reduction to weapon damages, a complete re-balancing of chemicals, a total rework of the injury and organ system, and loads and loads of administrative oversight for antagonist. Even then, ultimately you are screwing over everyone because you have a godamn fetish for deathRP. Which generally will not happen in any populated server.

If you want more impactful deaths, play a popular DNC character and see how much of an impact your death actually has. (Hint: None)

 

 

I will fight this tooth and nail until this thread dies the NOCLONE death it deserves. This idea is literally the worst I have ever heard suggested, and that includes the idea of instagibbing stamps and goon-style voltrons.

[PoZe]

Well, apologise. But I think that idea absolutely stupid from the begining.

[nanotoxin]

Are lore arguments invalid? This should be taken into consideration both ICly and OOCly, should it not?

 

If this is true, then what purpose does cloning serve in the first place?

For those that do want to wait to be cloned. Hence why I said pretty much. You're implying that the antags plans will never work/don't mean anything because the person killed is always revived. Which is false.

 

The rules. The rules will stop them.

Come on.. really? You were headmin, you know this isn't true more than anyone.

 

(It's the job in medbay you see the least.)

Just wanted to point out, I'm 99% sure it's the psych.

[PoZe]

If you made this thread just to look what people think then it's fine, France. But if you think to remove it seriously I would ask to leave that though. I swear if that will be involved I will quit from Aurora forver, because there is not place for those insane ideas.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Guest