It's time we talked about Blueshields.

[Guest]

Okay, this is nice.

Thanks for the clarification, I just didnt want them to be ridiculous pompadour wielding bright blue hussar uniform space samurai, like they are on the other servers.

[Guest]

That's part of what's amusing, Jack. The player has to choose where to be and who to be with during a tense moment when the station is threatened. It's a situational and partly fun challenge. You can't really predict who is going to be threatened where at what time.

So, really, not interested in addressing that. Their job is supposed to be hard.

Also, I completely understand, Rectum.

[Guest]

Blueshield is a favourite role of mine, I once played one, and managed to hold of Syndicates long enough for my Captain that I was guarding to teleport to safety (Only to be caught later).

Command staff, specifically the CE/RD, have sensitive knowledge regarding NT, both with blueprints, research and other, and are valuable assets.

Anyone saying a Sec Officer can fill this role, I guess you're right, but I've been denied a Bodyguard multiple times by my Head of Security when I request one as Captain.

I am all for this, the role is a bodyguard, I see nothing wrong with it inherently.

[Nik]

Suggestions from the previous Sec main'er:

Firstly, no lethals. That's silly.

Secondly, have up to three, so that they aren't entirely worthless. One dude who gets to be a bodyguard a shift is not only boring, it means people will be logging when they can't spawn as one. as well, this "makes job harder" thing, just makes them want to follow whoever they like the most. Three should be able to help all heads, or help all heads who can't defend themselves easily (RD, CE, CMO) and leave the others to their own whims, or have a guard themselves if the heads aren't all there (HOS, HOP, Captain)

Thirdly, give them a set of armbands for each wing, so they can clarify which head they are protecting, and they are with that head specifically.

But I actually like this. As a CMO player, I detest needing to robust at all, but I'd rather not get grabbed and shanked every time a nuke round occurs and I'm the only head.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Assigning a bodyguard to the command staff as it stands, creates a dynamic benefit/drawback situation. The benefit is that you gain a dedicated officer to watch over Heads in times of crisis, but at the same time gaining this ability removes this officer from general security duties, strengthening the Command security at the expense of general station security.

I would much rather that we create this job when necessary, IC'ly, rather than just assign a dedicated bodyguard. Heads of Staff are already armed, and antagonists already have to deal with this along with the regular security officers who have already proven to curbstomp anything that isn't a nuke squad.

Unless we remove a slot from the security job list, this would tip the balance away from antagonists and just stack the deck against them. We also need to reinforce the fact that in this job, you're supposed to take bullets by standing between a fleeing Command staff member and whoever's firing at them, by not giving them effective ranged weaponry, and just giving them reinforced armour and some band-aids. Because when they inevitably die like they're supposed to, anything they have can be looted by antagonists before the rest of the 7 security officers and 4 promoted bodyguards swarm the place.

I mean if you want a true effective blueshield, just conscript a diona or two to soak up all the damage.

[Guest]

Can... Can we just have a normal, boring old corporate bodyguard, with his boring suitcase, boring jumpsuit and a boring taser...?

That is what I'm going for, if your character has a super edgy backstory who's the top of their league in everything they have ever tried (We have people like that) They don't make good bodyguards.

If your character is hot headed or like to talk about how good they are at shooting people, or yells at people over the radio when something goes wrong (I'm looking at you X & Y) They don't make good bodyguards.

 

The only point in time where it's even tentatively acceptable when they can kill anybody is when the aggressor cannot be put down in any other way possible and the Protective Detail Agent has tried just about everything to keep the aggressor alive yet pacified.

At that point why the hell isn't security involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodyguard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_detail < these are what we are going for, not the Secret Service, they are 2 different things.

 

The fact that their job is impossible? There's only one of them and up to five heads. How we dealin' with that?

If the job was easy it wouldn't be fun, top trying to make things easy.

 

Firstly, no lethals. That's silly.

Alredy posted about that 3 times

 

Assigning a bodyguard to the command staff as it stands, creates a dynamic benefit/drawback situation. The benefit is that you gain a dedicated officer to watch over Heads in times of crisis, but at the same time gaining this ability removes this officer from general security duties, strengthening the Command security at the expense of general station security.

Unless we remove a slot from the security job list, this would tip the balance away from antagonists and just stack the deck against them. We also need to reinforce the fact that in this job, you're supposed to take bullets by standing between a fleeing Command staff member and whoever's firing at them, by not giving them effective ranged weaponry, and just giving them reinforced armour and some band-aids. Because when they inevitably die like they're supposed to, anything they have can be looted by antagonists before the rest of the 7 security officers and 4 promoted bodyguards swarm the place.

Read the posts by Skull and myself, slots will be balanced, and super over the top weapons will be a no.

[jackfractal]

There's a world of difference between easy and impossible, but 'eh I think we should try it. Worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't work out.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Guest

[Frances]

Unless we remove a slot from the security job list, this would tip the balance away from antagonists and just stack the deck against them.

This is what bugs me. It's hard enough to antag as it is, and one mark of a good antag (imo) has always been one's ability not to alarm the station until necessary in order to minimize direct confrontation and bloodshed.

This is a position that exists by default to validhunt. You're not there to assist the crew. You're there to evaluate possible threats and protect command from them. People are on edge enough as it is already, having a person whose sole job is to be suspicious simply seems like it would make antags' job a living hell.

[Guest]

This is not an valid reason to hunt antags for them or Command, if I'm playing that role you will hear me telling the heads to gtfo more than I have a weapon in my hand.

If people start using this role as a reason to chase or kill an antag, they will not be allowed to play the role.

I'm quite hessitent about making this job more than one slot, because of the specified reasons, and Jack, it's not about easy, impossible, quick, hard. It's about having something fun, so what if they don't make it to the person in time or get there at the same time as security, in that situation Security should be the ones dealing with it unless the PD can get the head out of there without escalating

My goal is not to make station life simple and easy.

Antags can manipulate them, trick them, threaten another head while they go after another head while the PD is distracted with the first non-threat, Vampires will be able to enthrall them to make them do things, changelings will be able to absorb and turn into them to get closer to the heads to get whatever their target is, NukeOP's will always be able to out do them in equipment and weapons. If a NukeOp gets robusted by a PD then it's either the PD's fault for going for the kill, or the NukeOps fault for not covering their back. Wizard .... just wizard.

[Frances]

As much as there can be a multitude of ways to exploit them (all of which apply to the rest of the crew as well), you can't deny that by nature, blueshields are an extra obstacle for antags - an armed and paranoid one. And that's especially bad for solo traitors.

Oh, one suggestion, if the proposition actually goes live for trial:

Only give them lethal weaponry.

Yes, at this point, you might be going "Frances, wtf", but the reason for that suggestion is very simple; it's the same precept, in fact, that exists behind the detective's equipment.

See, one thing I often hear of conceal carry owners irl is that if you conceal carry, you must adopt the mentality that you will willingly lose every fight you risk getting involved in. You won't step in other people's business, you'll let assholes be assholes to you, and you'll always back off when people start to push you around. The reason for that is that you want to avoid fights, because by default every fight with a conceal carry owner is a fight with a gun in it. And if you have a gun, you can't risk someone taking it from you and doing something even more dangerous - thus you want to refrain from getting involved in confrontations as much as possible, as the chances that you'll have to use your gun are quite high.

Following me so far? This can extend to blueshields, especially seeing as they should be whitelisted (and thus generally reasonable). If if we want to make sure they're not there to act as a badass personal security force, but as an actual protective detail, it's best not to give them the tools to get involved in common squabbles. Make it clear they're there for heavy-duty protection, and nothing else.

[Guest]

As much as there can be a multitude of ways to exploit them (all of which apply to the rest of the crew as well), you can't deny that by nature, blueshields are an extra obstacle for antags - an armed and paranoid one. And that's especially bad for solo traitors.

Oh, one suggestion, if the proposition actually goes live for trial:

Only give them lethal weaponry.

Yes, at this point, you might be going "Frances, wtf", but the reason for that suggestion is very simple; it's the same precept, in fact, that exists behind the detective's equipment.

See, one thing I often hear of conceal carry owners irl is that if you conceal carry, you must adopt the mentality that you will willingly lose every fight you risk getting involved in. You won't step in other people's business, you'll let assholes be assholes to you, and you'll always back off when people start to push you around. The reason for that is that you want to avoid fights, because by default every fight with a conceal carry owner is a fight with a gun in it. And if you have a gun, you can't risk someone taking it from you and doing something even more dangerous - thus you want to refrain from getting involved in confrontations as much as possible, as the chances that you'll have to use your gun are quite high.

Following me so far? This can extend to blueshields, especially seeing as they should be whitelisted (and thus generally reasonable). If if we want to make sure they're not there to act as a badass personal security force, but as an actual protective detail, it's best not to give them the tools to get involved in common squabbles. Make it clear they're there for heavy-duty protection, and nothing else.

 

This makes a good deal of sense to me.

[mrimatool]

What Frances said is very true, although I'm hesitant to see them with lethals.

I'm thinking that more than one might be good, I have a dedicated bodyguard character in other games and I've always been thinking of ways to get him into body guarding in SS13. With that said antags will be a bit damaged by this but we could always counter and add more antags. Usually the more antags there are the more other people are involved in the 'fun'.

Either way I'm really starting to like this idea.

[Jakers457]

I enjoy the challenge as an antag. You have to be smart, cunning and innovative to achieve your personal goals.And to be honest, not enough antags act like that, they just kind of do the same old gimmicks while cursing and spitting at Security

Besides, the BS (hue hue) makes antags think twice before making a half baked attack on Command.

[Baka]

To be fair, I am not sure I would want this mainly on the fact that it's security's job to protect and serve the station.

I don't know this doesn't really sit well with me.

[Susan]

I am utterly against removing any security slots to make way for this. Please no.

[Guest]

To be fair, I am not sure I would want this mainly on the fact that it's security's job to protect and serve the station.

I don't know this doesn't really sit well with me.

 

Security can't do everything, multiple times I've been Captain, have requested a bodyguard/security detail, and have my Heads of Security flat out say no to me, and if I try to overrule that, then I get yelled at for stepping on toes.

This person would be part of the Security Department in a way, but they'd be specialized to guarding, and not permitted to make arrests. I've seen it work out really well on other servers.

[Guest]

To be fair, I am not sure I would want this mainly on the fact that it's security's job to protect and serve the station.

I don't know this doesn't really sit well with me.

 

Security can't do everything, multiple times I've been Captain, have requested a bodyguard/security detail, and have my Heads of Security flat out say no to me, and if I try to overrule that, then I get yelled at for stepping on toes.

This person would be part of the Security Department in a way, but they'd be specialized to guarding, and not permitted to make arrests. I've seen it work out really well on other servers.

Maybe its because you don't need a bodyguard and HoS needs that officer, not because you're stepping on toes.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

So, these Blueshields went from being this fabulously dressed, lethal weapons carrying, whitelisted command besties antag killing machines to an overly glorified security guards with no licenses to kill, no lethals and they sound objectively worse then just designating a normal security officer to protection services. This sounds like it wouldn't even be worth it at this point. Maybe if it isn't whitelisted it could make some players get close to otherwise hard to approach command players and their lives, but i'm not sure that's the case. Im all up for this if it does remove security slots. It's one less department to worry about, and security is one of the most stacked department at any time anyway. Almost everyone that wants to play this sounds like a security player who can't get an opportunity to guard Command so they're making a job slot dedicated to it. Is that really favorable? I mean whitelisted captains and HoS's OOC jobs are to make a good RP environment, it probably SHOULD be their final word if a security goes and bodyguards people or not. Maybe make a thread to let whitelistees know you want this, but making an entire job, one that through the course of the thread got downgraded to sounding like a boring mess, sounds excessive to me.

My suggestion is to remove security slots for this and don't give them lethals, if the emphasis seems to be "meatshield". Also those lethal weapons sound easily snatchable by any antag or chucklefuck if that's all they got to work with. Perhaps behind a safe or something, maybe some better armor however, as to not make them as imposing as secretaries.

Personally, i dislike the idea though. But it might be bias, seems like a lot of people are into current tech guns and military and guns and armor and guns and giving security /more/ power and guns and mistaking combat for RP and guns, none of which appeal to me in the slightest, especially the guns, especially whe they're unimaginative

[Jakers457]

I've seen bodyguards done on our server via the HoP. I gotta say it was well done, well delivered and well performed. I think streamlining the process will offer fruitful opportunities for Roleplay.

[Guest]

To be fair, I am not sure I would want this mainly on the fact that it's security's job to protect and serve the station.

I don't know this doesn't really sit well with me.

 

Security can't do everything, multiple times I've been Captain, have requested a bodyguard/security detail, and have my Heads of Security flat out say no to me, and if I try to overrule that, then I get yelled at for stepping on toes.

This person would be part of the Security Department in a way, but they'd be specialized to guarding, and not permitted to make arrests. I've seen it work out really well on other servers.

Maybe its because you don't need a bodyguard and HoS needs that officer, not because you're stepping on toes.

 

My charavter had both out of round and in round reasons to have one, and actually ended up being asassinated.

[Jakers457]

We speak of the balance of power. But seeing as the AI and Command area are now massive gaping wounds, ready to have salt rubbed into it and then smothered with lemon juice by any antag with a pinch of sense. Having a body guard would help balance out the massive tactical oversight.

[Contextual]

Alrighty then, this thread. Let me start off by saying that I am wholly, entirely against this--The role quite simply does not belong on a civilian high-security research installation with thorough employee screening and background checks. Such a position being implemented on the station would establish a pervading sense of paranoia and mistrust canonically unfitting of an environment such as the Aurora. Would a 'bodyguard' be employed by Nanotrasen for high-value personnel? Yes. Would they be used on Nanotrasen secure facilities? No.

All I'm seeing here is a power fantasy, even in the "boring" suggestions. It's a beacon for edgy characters to play an edgy role, appealing to that group of players that want to play cooler-than-thou pseudo-military positions with all the ham-fisted finesse and subject expertise of your average underage airsofter.

Speaking of which, I'd like to point out the multitude of near-miss aneurysms I've been ducking every time I see someone's job listed as "protective detail." A detail, is a detail. It's a job, not a position. When you say "The protective detail," you are either referring to the detail itself, or the entire group of personnel assigned to the detail. You do not refer to the individual as the "detail," same as you would not refer to a traitor as the "mob." I'll be frank in saying that this extraordinarily pervasive misconception is highhandedly indicative of that self-same under-researched, misguided airsofterism I mentioned in my last point.

That all being said, if this were to be implemented, it would absolutely need to be lethal-only. Frances hit the nail on the head in regards to how CC works in real life, and it's not hard to avoid conflict in-game. Give them a gun, a pistol, ballistic. Lasers would be unreliable, and low-capacity, relying too much on precision--an offensive measure. A pistol with a relatively high-cap mag and low-impact rounds and a solid chunk of ammunition on reserve enables the proper crowd control and suppression factor needed for a single bodyguard to effectively corral a high-intensity situation if absolutely need be. A low-profile slim-fit armored vest designed to fit unnoticed underneath a regular suit-coat would be a must, as well as having the coat itself tailored to allow for the convenient (but concealed) carry of both the bodyguard's weapon and spare magazines. If the bodyguard were to not wear a suit (i.e., to better fit in with the less edgy and militaristic crew), then it would be best to create some manner of duty vest tailored for the role which would be both immediately identifiable and designed so as not to generate alarm and unrest amongst the civilian crew.

Note how the above starts to read more and more like an entity completely separate from the crew itself, and even the station--that's because that's exactly what this proposition is. It simply doesn't belong in this setting. Not to mention, it's almost entirely combat-oriented, which if I'm not mistaken is something we're actively trying to avoid from a OOC perspective.

This role is only necessitated (if you can even call it that) in very particular situations (read:Gankops). In said situations, security is your go-to for corporate meatshields, not Robocop IV: Paul Blart's Revengeance over here. In any other situation, this role is completely superfluous--note, that means this role is completely superfluous to standard station operation. Nanotrasen's paying more money to more people for absolutely no profit or benefit? Not gonna happen.

Also, "blueshield" is a pretty dumb name. Almost as dumb as "protective detail."

[Jakers457]

Like I said, I've witnessed the Bodyguard roleplay on the server already, so listen from someone who's actually witnessed it's delivery. It was done well, there was no power trip bullshit that people have been godfearing about. It was basically a guy/chick following the Captain during meetings and such, they had a stab proof vest and possibly a flash. There was no 'Edji sooper lethal l33t haxor guy,' just a very bureaucratic person who acted as the Captain's personal entourage.

And I'm not backing this for it's edginess, I don't like edginess despite the popular belief of Security players. I liked it because it just gave a little more depth to the station, to the command and more of the adminstrative side of things. It won't affect the high school drama that people love, it mainly revolves around the upper tier staff and adds an element of difficulty for antags. Which I welcome, I love having to formulate a plan and then improvise for every hiccup along the way. At the very least, we should trial it before we light our torches and declare a with hunt on 'what ifs'.