Reworking Science as a whole

[nanotoxin]

Now, before this turns into a huge argument thread, I want to clarify that I'm not doing this to spark any arguments.

So, this post what's it about. As pointed out by the title of this thread, I think science is due for a rework. I don't think any certain thing should be removed, and yeah I think a map update would be cool, but that's not the problem.

The problem is this:

 

[attachment=0]problem.png[/attachment]

 

Don't see it? Well if you look closely, there's only one member of science, on a research station, on board.

I'm not complaining about any one person, because it's not their fault. Science can be stale and boring at times, hence this thread.

I think that something should be done to make science, mechanically, worth doing.

The way I think that this could work is a number of ways:

1. New researchable items.

- Maybe an item or two per level, with different functions varying from novelty to actually useful would be a good addition. (Ex. Portal guns, universal translating headset, and i'm sure others can think of more)

2. Increase in difficulty, but more rewarding.

- Randomizing the research levels, as in getting rid of "combat""bluespace" and labels like that, 7 or 8 different "variables" that need leveling up, and each item boosts random variables. Sort of like the door wiring function.

3. Malfunctions and Experiments.

- I think items needing repairs more and experiments happening more would greatly help in increasing the enjoyment for science members. While yes expirments is an IC thing, people should be curious as to what it does, I just thought it'd be nice to put in here.

ICly, this makes no sense whatsoever, a research station with a single science member, but stacked security and civilian department.

[Guest]

Can we think about adding Xenobotany?

Xenobotany is really cool.

[Ziaboop]

One thing that's been frequently frustrating when playing science, since I'm pretty much always a roboticist because I'm most familiar with it, is that robotics seems pretty much useless without miners and cargo staff and I can't even make my own buckets to flood the place with cleanerbots named after Keeping Up Appearances characters (Which I understand might be in part down to a server stability issue of having lots of little robots wandering around).

[keinto]

Allow other departments to conduct experiments within Research.

Atmos can do research in Toxins.

Engineers can work on the research levels and what not.

Security can test weapons in second firing range.

Merge Genetics with Xenobiology(???)

Possibly terrible ideas, I know. But hopefully these will inspire better ones from other people.

[Guest]

Allow other departments to conduct experiments within Research.

Atmos can do research in Toxins.

Engineers can work on the research levels and what not.

Security can test weapons in second firing range.

Merge Genetics with Xenobiology(???)

Possibly terrible ideas, I know. But hopefully these will inspire better ones from other people.

 

No. No. NO.

Science is a secure area, non-science personnel are not trained to utilize any of the labs, at all. Science is the one department that doesnt need to interact with other departments to function beyond needing minerals and chemicals.

[swat43]

MOre mechs.... PLEASE! I WANT MORE MECHS, WITH MORE VERSATILITY, FINALY FIXED 'BORGED' MECHANISMS! ARGH!!!

But seriously. I wish robotics could do more then just sit with their stick up their asses and wait till miners or some one else comes up to them and asks them what they need and then sit their asses again for hour.

[Crescentise]

Science is a secure area, non-science personnel are not trained to utilize any of the labs, at all. Science is the one department that doesnt need to interact with other departments to function beyond needing minerals and chemicals.

Maybe that's one of the reasons nobody likes playing it.

[ZipZero]

Science is the one department that doesnt need to interact with other departments to function beyond needing minerals and chemicals.

Only minerals. Chemicals can be easily acquired from the dispenser on the outpost.

Speaking of the outpost, I would appreciate it if a random anomaly spawned in storage there at the start of the round. Without any xenoarchaeologists, it's impossible for an anomalist to do their job.

[keinto]

 

EDIT: WRONG THREAD. Please delete. Isn't that cool, though?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

Science is a secure area, non-science personnel are not trained to utilize any of the labs, at all. Science is the one department that doesnt need to interact with other departments to function beyond needing minerals and chemicals.

Maybe that's one of the reasons nobody likes playing it.

 

Possibly, but just entering science as a non-scientist or command member is considered infilitration into a secure area. The labs are high-tech, even station personnel should see it beyond certain limits, corporate espionage is rampant.

[witchbells]

Science is a secure area, non-science personnel are not trained to utilize any of the labs, at all. Science is the one department that doesnt need to interact with other departments to function beyond needing minerals and chemicals.

Maybe that's one of the reasons nobody likes playing it.

 

There's weight to this. Personally, I don't believe the station will function at its full potential if departments don't interact with one another. Cooperation is important for a workplace.

There are times when you need a medical practitioner's advice on anatomy. There are many, many times when you want a security officer in science with a really big gun just in case something goes wrong. Want to know how a machine really works? Ask an engineer, they work with those all day. Research is about learning and discovering, and any scientist would be hard-pressed to do that without using every source of information at their disposal.

It's also a way to keep other people on the station involved, which has been highly underrated as of late.

[jackfractal]

The tricky thing with science is that any kind of 'improvement' doesn't work very well with the rest of SS13's design.

In SS13, items typically act as keys. You can either do this thing, or you can't, and if you can do it at all, you can usually do it in one click. There's no way to make, say, a better crowbar unless you make the default crowbar worse.

The way that you differentiate between levels of items is by either granting greater permission to act, or by enhancing an ability that already exists. Enhancement isn't possible without gradations of ability, and a greater ability to act is only worthwhile if you're actually allowed to use it, which on high-rp servers you usually aren't.

Low-rp servers still see people play toxins because toxins gives you bombs, and bombs are fun to do things like try to bomb the singularity when it gets out, or to drop on top of wizards using the teleporter.

Nobody here plays toxins because using bombs, save in the rarest of circumstances, is grounds for a ban. Not many people play xenobiology because it's an isolated job that requires no interaction, and doing anything with the stuff you make is either pointless, or grounds for a ban. R&D is a liiiitle more useful, but not by much, and again, because there's no real need for anything on the station, a department whose job is making things isn't very interesting.

So, your choices are either:

a. Make the rest of the station need science.

b. Let science use their shiny toys (which doesn't really match the mode of play on this server)

c. Make science it's own game entirely which is interesting enough to play without engaging with the rest of SS13's mechanics.

d. Remove science, make the Aurora not a research station.

e. Leave science alone, because any plan aside from d is an enormous amount of work that will make a large number of people angry.

[Rusty Shackleford]

What you NEED is to throw caution to the wind, along with such silly notions like "balance" or "fairness". If you want to make it interesting, have things that people can abuse and have fun with, but require them to actually put in the effort to get it or deal with RNJesus and his petty dispositions.

[Eliot Clef]

In SS13, items typically act as keys. You can either do this thing, or you can't, and if you can do it at all, you can usually do it in one click. There's no way to make, say, a better crowbar unless you make the default crowbar worse.

 

OR you can make a powered crowbar that -- slowly -- allows you to pry open active airlocks.

[jackfractal]

@Rusty

You favor Option B I see.

@Eliot.

And you like the 'add additional capabilities' option.

That's usually the more interesting one, but it's also much more expensive in terms of production time, and, of course, some people will hate it.

[Conservatron]

Science is a secure area, non-science personnel are not trained to utilize any of the labs, at all. Science is the one department that doesnt need to interact with other departments to function beyond needing minerals and chemicals.

Maybe that's one of the reasons nobody likes playing it.

 

Possibly, but just entering science as a non-scientist or command member is considered infilitration into a secure area. The labs are high-tech, even station personnel should see it beyond certain limits, corporate espionage is rampant.

Opening it up to other people would remove it being infiltration..

[Conservatron]

that said I have some possibly station destroying science plans so i might roll a scientist to put them in motion

[Guest]

The reason I say we shouldn't have too many people involved with science besides science is because it's supposed to be secure, secret research.

[Jamini]

The reason I say we shouldn't have too many people involved with science besides science is because it's supposed to be secure, secret research.

 

Yes, and everyone on-board works at the secure, secret research facility. We're all playing NT employees here, like many of whom have signed NDAs and such.

I see no issue, ICly or OOCly, with involving more station staff into science.