Add borers to the uplink

[evandorf]

Full disclosure, I watched Wrath of Khan immediately before making this so it’s not my most original or creative suggestion but I still think the idea has merit. It would allow uplink users to include an oft unseen antag and utilize them in modes outside of the standard borer/bughunt setups. 
 

The details about how many you can buy, how much they cost, and other restrictions can be hammered out. 

[Fyni]

I think this is a great idea. We already have a precedent for opening a late join antag slot (the combat cyborg) so I don't see how this would be any different. The only issues are how buggy (no pun intended) Borer can be, though this may make them common enough that they get fixed.

[meep109]

The only problem I would have with this is that borers can give you psionics equivalent to a jump starter

For balance reasons a borer from the uplink probably shouldn't be able to do this

[evandorf]

11 minutes ago, meep109 said:

The only problem I would have with this is that borers can give you psionics equivalent to a jump starter

For balance reasons a borer from the uplink probably shouldn't be able to do this

My understanding of borer mechanics is that you have to apply psionics multiple times to your host and you don’t get everything you would get from a jump starter all at once. You also get incapacitated and twitch like mad and generally attract attention every time this happens.

[Carver]

Borers tend to dominate a round just as much as cultists or revs given that they’re a conversion-based group antagonist, I don’t really know if they’d make for an enjoyable experience if they were so easily accessible.

[evandorf]

I wouldn’t expect you to be able to buy a large amount of them. One at a time, possibly with a total limit like with sana. My experience with borers has been that once the crew knows what’s going on they are easy to defeat since helmets and other full head coverings block the conversion process.

6 minutes ago, Carver said:

Borers tend to dominate a round just as much as cultists or revs given that they’re a conversion-based group antagonist, I don’t really know if they’d make for an enjoyable experience if they were so easily accessible.

[NerdyVampire]

I'm in favor of dynamic solutions, so I definitely like this. I'd maybe set the cost of one single bor to 12 TC, so each traitor can only buy one.

[Carver]

Maybe if they cost 15+ and were unable to reproduce? If they can reproduce then they should be a 'full commit' of 20, like buying into Changeling or Vampire.

[Fyni]

1 hour ago, Carver said:

Maybe if they cost 15+ and were unable to reproduce? If they can reproduce then they should be a 'full commit' of 20, like buying into Changeling or Vampire.

I agree with them costing a lot and removing the reproduction. However I think leaving some points is valueable - for things like announcements which can allow a traitor player to have a narrative.

[evandorf]

1 hour ago, Carver said:

Maybe if they cost 15+ and were unable to reproduce? If they can reproduce then they should be a 'full commit' of 20, like buying into Changeling or Vampire.

I think their potency is a little overestimated. It will be a simpler implementation if we don’t have to modify their behavior and unlike cult or rev it’s not a permanent conversion. The infested person has almost full autonomy and even when the borer takes over their mind they can retake control. The borer can also be removed with surgery.

I also don’t look at this like a vamp or ling conversion. The antag using the borers doesn’t necessarily have to be one of the infested. They could simply use them as a tool or work with the borers.

[GeneralCamo]

Please note we have methods to restrict these to one per antag without a high point requirement.

[Arbiter_Ambrose]

I agree with Evandorf, I do not think Borers should really be limited, as a person who has played them your powers are limited fairly well, ignoring them chemicals, and the chance you get like 20 ghosts willing to play them is also slim, it is a existing issue, I do agree however with pricing them like a assault rilfe or something, since they can be a main-ish, weapon in the hands of mercs or a traitor.

[Carver]

9 hours ago, Arbiter_Ambrose said:

I agree with Evandorf, I do not think Borers should really be limited, as a person who has played them your powers are limited fairly well, ignoring them chemicals, and the chance you get like 20 ghosts willing to play them is also slim, it is a existing issue, I do agree however with pricing them like a assault rilfe or something, since they can be a main-ish, weapon in the hands of mercs or a traitor.

 

On 09/03/2026 at 21:54, evandorf said:

I think their potency is a little overestimated. It will be a simpler implementation if we don’t have to modify their behavior and unlike cult or rev it’s not a permanent conversion. The infested person has almost full autonomy and even when the borer takes over their mind they can retake control. The borer can also be removed with surgery.

I also don’t look at this like a vamp or ling conversion. The antag using the borers doesn’t necessarily have to be one of the infested. They could simply use them as a tool or work with the borers.

For what is functionally treated as an unresistable conversion teetering on mind control, I do not think that they should be cheap nor should they able to reproduce. I will hold this view unless the linked prior policy is retracted by administrative staff. Cult conversions are not permanent either, whilst Rev/Loy conversions are entirely optional.

[evandorf]

5 hours ago, Carver said:

For what is functionally treated as an unresistable conversion teetering on mind control, I do not think that they should be cheap nor should they able to reproduce. I will hold this view unless the linked prior policy is retracted by administrative staff. Cult conversions are not permanent either, whilst Rev/Loy conversions are entirely optional.

This could use some clarification, given its age, but at first glance this looks like a stance taken due to the fact that borers started the round in someone's head. I can see why there would be a ruling against running to have it removed as soon as it made its presence known. It would be the height of gimmick squashing, but not only has the culture shifted since 2020, borers spawned from the uplink already have someone working with them.

[UltraNumeron]

Honestly, borers are pretty balanced relying on help from someone else, could just slap them in for around 10 TC, and make uplink borers unable to reproduce. While they can do mind control it's not really a full conversion or even hypnosis, its moreso just telepathy and temporary body hijacking.