Erik Tiber - Longterm Harrassment

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

BYOND Key: Jackboot

Player Byond Key: Erik Tiber

Staff involved: Myself in the capacity as Loremaster. Other staff as it relates to the general trend, but nothing currently specific as I am aware.

Reason for complaint: Growing hostility on the forum and in private communication that's become borderline harassment; a general toxic attitude that is affecting lore development and the dynamic of my team.

Approximate Date/Time: Shortly after his application to the lore team was rejected.

For an opening, I'll leave this here. This was shortly after I rejected his application to the lore team, citing that I was worried he would be frustrated with his philosophy of lore development differing drastically from the course I've established. You can see my reasoning here: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24878#p24878

His response:

http://i.imgur.com/Z4mzsCB.png

 

This was followed by rants in OOC that I do not have logs for, but I could feasibly acquire them if it's necessary, through Scopes or Skull.

After this incident, my tentativeness in his rejection was expunged. However, he has continued on his campaign of unnecessary hostility. I have numerous cited incidents where members of my lore team have complained about Erik's behaviour, and it's come even to the attention of Skull, with whom I've discussed banning Erik from lore subforums.

This is a step I'm taking before the above.

Let me state my case.

I don't care if there's a disagreement - I don't care if there's opposition to something I or another loredev has developed. Disagreement is good, and sparks debate and interest that shows the community is involved and cares. What I do care about is the conduct we show when we are disagreeing. I have altered course when people present reasonable arguments, and have made it policy to completely ignore (politely or otherwise) rude, inflammatory, or other confrontational or non-constructive attitude. It's a policy that's worked great so far. I mean, Inverted_Rectum and I now have civil conversations about the direction of the lore and he used to hate me/the lore so fucking much.

But Erik is bucking the trend, and is continuing to be a viper that I'm losing interest in having to deal with. His OOC tirades and personal vendetta against a group of volunteers over creative differences is one of the highest forms of unbecoming behaviour. I would like to see official administrative action taken in the form of some sort of oversight or parole to curb his OOC harassment against the lore team, and unnecessarily confrontational/hostile stance on lore development and lore developers.

[nanotoxin]

I'm not sure I understand why he was rejected in the first place. Please don't take this as me thinking his actions were justified, cause I've never really seen any other than that screen shot. But on a high roleplay server, the lore master turned down someone who was interested in reailism? Long winded debates and arguments is something that that should be embraced, challenges only better the lore. I don't mean any offense towards Tytos, and I'm sure he'll be a great addition to the team, but from what is viewable on the forums, the only reason that he was accepted it seems to be is that he's willing to learn how to do the wiki, which I don't doubt Erik would as well.

*Edit xander deleted his comment and someone deleted my other one, so I'm bolding this. I want these points made clear.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

Hyper-realism is not our direction. The server itself decided this for the Lore Team and pushed us away from that.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Guest

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Tytos is not relevant to this complaint and I will not address him or his conduct in it.

I didn't want to insinuate anything negative towards Erik in the denial. I withheld information out of courtesy, but respect is an institution that is supposed to go both ways.

My reasoning:

My consideration was partially swayed by memories of the 'long winded debates' Erik got the lore chat sucked into when he was enlisted previously.

I am physically incapable of beating the concept into anyone, so let me bold and underline: The length/size of something has zero correlation to its value. I specifically challenge the mindset that everything is necessary and important to write a lore page for every single one of the billion inhabitants of the known galaxy. No one's taken me up on that offer yet.

Erik is part of that mindset - rather than use game mechanics and known and well-versed tropes of softer science fiction, he wants to see a fully replicated "hard science" version of Real Life: Fast Forward 400 Years.

And that's totally fine. He's free to write as much as he wants for Exogenesis, which he's part of the lore development team for(?)

But it's not the course I've established since day 1 of my tenure. Suspension of disbelief fills niches or holes where lore development can't, not pages full of equations and hard science. I'm trying to remain true to the core of Space Station 13's whimsical nature while retaining the core of HRP as well.

 

But again, this is all irrelevant to the point I'm making: It's not about Erik's rejection, it's not about the path of the lore, it's not about me requiring consensus on every lore development: This is about Erik's conduct for the duration he's been against me/the lore.

To be curt, he's extremely rude and angry all the time at unpaid volunteers.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest]

Sorry, Erik, but what you said in Skype to me was outright wrong. (This was a week ago.)

Additional logs backing up harassment of a lore team developer (said lore developer also getting equally pissy, but, guess what, they were provoked or 'baited' into a verbal smackdown).

 

 

Edited June 1, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

I am actually offended and appalled, that you purposefully took it upon yourself to bait me. It's a crude tactic to discredit someone and is extremely, and utterly rude and disrespectful. And certainly not behaviour I would expect from a member of the Aurora community.

[Erik Tiber]

What I did immediately after my rejection was me being an asshole, straight up. In OOC in the game, and in pager with Jackboot. The comments posted by Delta were me being an asshole, straight up. I apologize for that. That was, rather blatantly, me being an asshole.

I do not see the recent incident as being at all in line with my earlier behavior.

Allow me to post logs of the incident immediately preceding the posting of this complaint. As well as a screenshot.

I have kept logs myself of many of the rounds I have played. List the dates and I can give logs if you so desire.

Below are logs of the conversation relating to the recent change in IPC lore. Note the discussion, which I did not start, and the disagreement with Xander, which I did not start.

OOC: SierraKomodo: Ohhh, this new AI ui gives me camera huda

OOC: SierraKomodo: Thats useful

OOC: XanderDox: Sierra?

OOC: XanderDox: You play KATANA?

OOC: XanderDox: Or who does?

OOC: SierraKomodo: I play Katana

OOC: XanderDox: I forget

OOC: Sleepy Wolf: sierra does

OOC: XanderDox: Ah,

OOC: SierraKomodo: How did you not know this

OOC: XanderDox: You will want to be in on the IPC lore

OOC: XanderDox: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2599&p=26011#p26011

OOC: SierraKomodo: I even have my own crew monitor!

OOC: XanderDox: Could affect your backstory.

OOC: SierraKomodo: I've skimmed over it

OOC: SierraKomodo: It'd better fit in the purpose Katrina has for making Katana

OOC: XanderDox: Sierra, basically, whoever created Katana's program and positron, would have had to purchase all the IPC chassis from Biesel Robotics Incorporated, thats the only imposed thing really.

OOC: SierraKomodo: Hmmm, that'd have been fine.

OOC: SierraKomodo: Although there are IPCs thats going to adverseley affect

OOC: SierraKomodo: Like DragonSnap whom was built from scratch by Karima

OOC: SierraKomodo: Pssst. Person might want to fix flavor text.

OOC: XanderDox: Those people will have to deal with it. Except they wont, because players like freedom, BRI does provide roboticists their blueprints for private usage, just not commercial usage

OOC: NursieKitty: wat

OOC: Tainavaa: So it's open source, basically.

OOC: SierraKomodo: For Katana, I dont see it causing any problems.

OOC: NursieKitty: no, what?

OOC: SierraKomodo: The chassis used on NT was, in her backstory, commissioned by NT

OOC: XanderDox: You try to make lore for a server that absolutely tears any piece of lore apart, and are against any sort of restrictiosn

OOC: NursieKitty: i don't understand

OOC: XanderDox: IPCs were created by BRI, BRI controls their construction and distribution completely, they only permit certain people and organziations to process them.

OOC: XanderDox: Roboticists doing research projects, univeristies, NanoTrasen. They also permit subcontracts to small robotics companies, althought a majority of those are subsidaries of BRI tiself and I havent bothered naming

OOC: NursieKitty: so basically you want to give a monopoly to a company you've created

OOC: Aedan: I think a monopoly/heavy restriction along those lines would be detrimental to a lot of backstories. Having lawed IPCs is, I think, appropriate but as to the rest, ehn...

OOC: XanderDox: Nursie

OOC: XanderDox: I didnt create it

R.E.D states, "b: roger"

OOC: XanderDox: It was brought into IPC lore because it was related

OOC: NursieKitty: okay, but why are you giving it a monopoly?

OOC: XanderDox: Why not?

OOC: XanderDox: They have a competetor

OOC: NursieKitty: because it's an unnecessary restriction.

OOC: XanderDox: Why did the intial creators of SS13 give NT a monopoly?

OOC: XanderDox: Why does EE have a monopoly on engines?

OOC: NursieKitty: because it was hilarious.

OOC: Meowykins: Grimdark.

OOC: XanderDox: Or Humanity on space?

OOC: SierraKomodo: Because everyone works on a station owned by a single company?

OOC: NursieKitty: also because ss13 intially was not made for roleplay.

OOC: Meowykins: They wanted it to be neo-dystopian or something.

OOC: Erik Tiber: Why would it be a monopoly?

OOC: Erik Tiber: Other people can build robot chassi.s.

OOC: Erik Tiber: You may as well make a car monopoly and nobody else remembers how to make cars.

OOC: XanderDox: Because one company created them first and got a patent and basically said, you as my chief competetor cannot build this, but we will subcontract to other companies to rub it in your face

OOC: Meowykins: Sslazhir Yinzr [supply] says, "Hisses briefly."

OOC: XanderDox: Erik. Please right now, go to your garage if you have one, and make a car from what you have without blueprints

OOC: Alberyk: gg me

OOC: NursieKitty: xander, we're talking about people who are capable.

OOC: Voyd2000: Space is a big place, aliens, groups, how do you inforce said patent?

OOC: MasterZipZero: Define "car"

OOC: XanderDox: Even a highly trained roboticist would need something to go off of.

OOC: NursieKitty: yeah. so they make blueprints.

OOC: XanderDox: Which is why blueprints are given out to universities and such as I said

OOC: XanderDox: And then they get stomped on for encroaching on BRI's territory.

OOC: Erik Tiber: WThey can just make their own blueprints.

OOC: Erik Tiber: They can just make their own blueprints. anyone can make hands. They've had prosthetic hands for a while. Robo hands are around.

OOC: XanderDox: They could yes,

OOC: XanderDox: I never said they cant

OOC: Erik Tiber: They could just make their own chassi."

OOC: XanderDox: But they wouldnt be able to make it commercially and mass produce Erik

Chandrakanta Bhattacharya says, "Very well."

OOC: Erik Tiber: Yes they cold.

OOC: NursieKitty: that's a monopoly.

OOC: XanderDox: No... Because a conglomerate got on it first

OOC: Erik Tiber: The monopoly would be broken.

OOC: Erik Tiber: Other firms can enter and force the price down.

This was the initial portion of the exchange. Note that my tone is not that of someone engaging in harassment. Also note that I joined a conversation Xander himself started. The first ones to raise issues were not me. Nursie Kitty was the primary conversation partner before I joined and continued being so.

OOC: NursieKitty: you want one company to control the distribution of synthetic construction.

OOC: NursieKitty: why.

OOC: XanderDox: Not synthetics Nursie

OOC: XanderDox: IPC

OOC: Erik Tiber: The monopoly's costs would be higher than those for a new firm.

OOC: Erik Tiber: IPC are synthetic.

OOC: NursieKitty: ipcs are synthetic.

OOC: XanderDox: I know

OOC: NursieKitty: then why.

OOC: XanderDox: Please dont treat me like a fucking idiot

This was the first instance of hostility, on the part of XanderDox, in response to Nursie. Not me.

 

OOC: Erik Tiber: Any synthetic manufactuerer can make an IPC.

OOC: Voyd2000: A blueprint is not necessarily a way to go about control of manufacturing, At this time? in space? with our powerful 3d printers, You would own licensing not production.

OOC: Erik Tiber: IPC = synthetic with positronic brain

OOC: Erik Tiber: Firms reach an ideal size in the long run for their industry, determined by the natuer of the market.

OOC: Erik Tiber: Sans outside influence.

OOC: XanderDox: Sol Synthetics, the other company rivalling BRI, maintains monopoly over AI and androids, they got crushed int he race to build IPCs by BRI, and were prevented from making them after BRI basically payed of the SA to make the patent a form of saying, we choose who builds this if they plan to sell it for big bucks

OOC: Erik Tiber: Okay, they make a new IPC and patent that.

OOC: Erik Tiber: Bam, done.

OOC: Bluespace Cat: Question

OOC: Erik Tiber: They make their own design for an IPC and patent that

OOC: Bluespace Cat: Why does it matter?

OOC: XanderDox: Exactly?

OOC: Voyd2000: I duno o.O

OOC: Erik Tiber: They just make their own design for an IPC, patent that.

OOC: XanderDox: What the fuck is the point in making everything so god damn complicated Erik?

OOC: Erik Tiber: It's not complicated.

OOC: XanderDox: Why do the players feel the need to fucking dissect everything?

OOC: Meowykins: Can't we just fucking ERP?

OOC: Erik Tiber: I'm not sure how it's complicated to say "We're going with the status quo before this change was introduced"

OOC: XanderDox: Suspension of disbelief, a super massive company stopped other companies from building their product, and stops any company from triyng to improve it

OOC: Bluespace Cat: I never got an answer

OOC: Erik Tiber: Why though?

OOC: Erik Tiber: Give me the aesthetic reason why/

OOC: XanderDox: Because it simplifies things

OOC: Bluespace Cat: Yo, Eric, why does it matter so much?

OOC: Erik Tiber: How is it simple to say "For all these reasons only one company is allowed to make it"

OOC: Erik Tiber: "I will now explain in detail, using more than ten words, why"

OOC: Smifboy78: WOAH WOAH WOAH

OOC: Erik Tiber: Well I mean, I could just ignore the lore like I always od.

OOC: Smifboy78: Something I created in the Lore has ACTUALLY stuck for this long?

OOC: Erik Tiber: So *Shrug*

OOC: Smifboy78: :DDD

OOC: Meowykins: Everybody's arguing and I'm over here just http://gyazo.com/dc43d9eb09129bb22f4bac899b3ecc2b

OOC: Smifboy78: I came up with BRI on a lazy friday night and threw it at the lore devs like..a long time ago. Didn't know it actually stuck and is now a thing. That's cool.

OOC: Erik Tiber: Some players like to dissect things and are bugged by things that make no sense. I dunno, ask all them why they shouldn't care.

OOC: Erik Tiber: I also like BRI

OOC: Bluespace Cat: But you're the only one I see dissecting it

OOC: Erik Tiber: False.

OOC: XanderDox: Why do you need to exit? Give me an aesthetic reason why. You DONT, you exist only to bitch on this server, and play your damn medical doctor Lachina or Lockie or whatever the fuck her crazy ass goes by, and criticize EVERY DECISION THE LORE TEAM MAKES, DOWN TO FUCKING PRIVATE LORE APPS.. FRHG-9H0ARGSEBAH9BGSTH-9QEGS0BVF- Im off for tonight. Goodnight/morning/afternoon to all, sweet dreams or day. Erik, go fuck yourself with a cactus. Make it one of the big ones.

OOC: NursieKitty: i was dissecting it. because i don't think another monopoly adds roleplay.

OOC: XanderDox: NEED TO EXIST*

OOC: XanderDox: ANGRY MESSAGE RUINED

OOC: Bluespace Cat: Also my data usage http://puu.sh/i7VZ5/46514488de.png

OOC: MasterZipZero: The lore should not be so restrictive.

OOC: NursieKitty: what the fuck xander

OOC: Erik Tiber: Nursie was asking why.

OOC: MasterZipZero: And seriously, stop fighting.

OOC: Bluespace Cat: Actually

The OOC channel has been globally disabled!

OOC: Bluespace Cat: Lore has it's place on the forums, THAT is where you talk about/moan/dissect it

OOC: Bluespace Cat: If it matters to you that much, that is where the change is made

This conversation was not started by me. I was not the only one who cared. Adeno, NursieKitty, and MasterZipZero all expressed opinions, and I do not appreciate that an admin decided to completely misrepresent me. XadnerDox was the one to initiate hostilities, the one to continue to escalate, and the one who ultimately, almost on their own, got OOC muted entirely through their own hostility.

I did not engage in harassment in this instance. I engaged in a conversation started by others. I am not the only one who was 'nitpicking' and the idea that I was is entirely false. Instead XanderDox engaged in a rather hostile attitude in OOC. If they are attempting to characterize this as my harassment, that is a falsehood.

I am actually disappointed and believed that Xander and I had come to an understanding. I had a rather amicable discussion with them over pager recently. It's not like I was acting out of hostility in this instance, and my behavior was perfectly in line with that of player NursieKitty.

In no way do I want hyper-realism. In no way do I want hard science fiction. I would like to discuss aesthetics. I would like to contribute creatively. I see the current lore as something which ignores the desires of many people in the playerbase. I only decided to re-apply to the lore team once I saw that several players would prefer me being on the lore team, since I saw them as being ignored and wanted to represent them. I have seen many people criticize the current lore philosophy. (I'll actually reply to JB's posts directly in a follow-up thingy)

I had a talk with Skull about my recent behavior and my blatant assholery. Since then, I'm not quite sure how else I've been an ass. Maybe in my description of the manticore recently in OOC?

I am actually offended and appalled, that you purposefully took it upon yourself to bait me. It's a crude tactic to discredit someone and is extremely, and utterly rude and disrespectful. And certainly not behaviour I would expect from a member of the Aurora community.

I did not purposefully go into OOC with the idea of baiting you. I posted a comment. Then you decided to tell me to "shut the fuck up" and curse at me repeatedly in response to an innocuous comment. I continued discussion. I even stated what I liked about the current lore. Note I have since actually changed my mind on the subject matter.

Once I started using "Bro" I decided to just go and egg you on. That was not good, this entire incident was me being an insensitive asshole. I would also, however, expect that people refrain from exploding in OOC into a storm of cursing with little provocation. This was us both being assholes.

I do not view the recent exchange in OOC as being in line with my assholery there. I had no intention of baiting Xander. I had no intention of engaging in hostile conversation. This is evident in my conduct.

[Guest]

I will not deny that I am very easily angered if one is seeking to anger me and I do have outbursts. What your OOC logs do not show is the buildup of on-forum criticisim against the lore team.

[nanotoxin]

Tytos is not relevant to this complaint and I will not address him or his conduct in it.

I bring up Tytos because I felt as if it was an insult to Erik by accepting Tytos as opposed to Erik. Again not justifying his actions, just what could have been what provoked it.

[Erik Tiber]

I will not deny that I am very easily angered if one is seeking to anger me and I do have outbursts. What your OOC logs do not show is the buildup of on-forum criticisim against the lore team.

Please point to this build-up from Nursie Kitty criticizing the lore team on the forum, as you were the one whom you had your initial outburst against.

You are not under-siege from me. I joined the discussion others started. My words did not justify your actions. Legitimate criticism of the lore should not be met with such overreaction.

I have owned up to my mistakes. Your words did not justify me baiting you. I just think you need to acknowledge the fact that you blew up without justification against unrelated members, and against others. My actions were perfectly in line with those of others in that conversation.

Make a complaint against Nursie if you feel she provoked you in some way, as she was the one whom you started cursing at.

[Gollee]

As the loremaster who was around when Erik was part of the team, I guess I should mention a few things.

While on the lore team, most of what Erik did was spawn massive multi-hundred message debates over relatively minor things. Other than that, he did not do much at all. Quote for evidence:

m perfectly willing to work on lore and actually do things this time. I would very much like to help make the lore much more interesting, and take into account what people care about. Many people I've talked to have a number of problems with the lore as currently written, and with their perception of the attitude of the lore team as a whole, so I decided that this way I would be able to more directly contribute to improving the lore.

 

Erik attempted to take over areas already being worked on, such as planetary lore, as he believed he could do them better than the people currently doing them.

These are reasons I brought up against him being readded to the team, so I would hardly call it an insult to accept Vitt and not him; we had prior evidence that Erik actually impeded the efficiency of the lore team, rather than adding to it, which we did not have with Vitt.

I personally feel that Erik's conduct towards Jackboot, and Xander in some cases in the logs posted is completely unjustified, disrespectful and immature.

HOWEVER, Xander's conduct in several of the logs is also questionable.

But again, the conduct towards Jackboot still remains.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No one was "chosen over" anyone else during lore developer applications. Erik would have been denied even if no one else had applied or Tytos was denied as well.

Xanderdox' behaviour is an issue worthy of consideration and this will be addressed outside of this complaint. Erik's behaviour predates his interaction with Xander, and cannot be used as an excuse.

Acknowledging that he was being an 'asshole' settles the dilemma on if it was an intentional campaign.

Knowing if Delta's logs on "baiting" come before or after this talk Erik had with Skull will determine my desired course of action.

[mrimatool]

Right, not going to read EVERYTHING but this complaint is not to address Xander's behaviour, nor why Erik wasn't chosen it's to address Erik's.

[Rechkalov]

This may come across a completely off, coming from somebody who's fairly succesfully cut themselves away from the game and community alike - but hey, who knows, maybe that perspective is what is lacking here.

I would just like to point out that this, what we're doing here, is playing a game - and that we are all here because we love the game, imperfect as it is.

I haven't been there for these arguments, I can't tell who started what and who's in the right, and frankly, I don't think it matters at all.

What matters from where I'm standing is, and I would like to emphasize this as much as possible; you people are presently all being deeply upset by something that has happened on the internet.

Not even in the actual game, but in the lore; don't get me wrong, I love the lore, I love this universe we pretend to live in, but let's face it, it can never become as immersive as the game itself. The lore is sort of a sauce around the main meal, a background to the game we play.

It is understandable, though no less silly, that events of the game in which one is immersed might personally upset them. It is much sillier than that to become hostile to one another because of this.

Think again; we've all come here to have fun.

Why would you ruin your fun over such petty matters.

Tadaah!

In my dreams, this is the point where everybody feels amused and a bit ashamed for letting a let's-pretend become so real to them, waves their hand over the matter and forgets the whole thing.

Because, you know.

This is the only way to solve this without anybody getting (butt)hurt.

And it would be awful shame if somebody were to be hurt over a game.

Perhaps another perspective to ponder; none of us are entitled to the game.

The lore team's work should adapt to the players' desires -such as Nursie's, but everything I've seen so far leads me to believe that Jackboot is trying to do exactly that; provide enjoyable universe for the players, as opposed to one's desire to shape a universe out of our fantasies.

And while the players' voices should be heard, they should also express constructive criticism and be directed at the lore, not people in the development team.

But now I'm straying.

Let me end it with this; before you say anything, pause and reflect. Are you upset? Yes? Then you would do best to turn off the computer and go for a walk.

You came here to have fun; if you are not having fun, then frankly that is your problem and can be resolved entirely by changing your attitude.

I wish I had better words for this... clinically speaking, most psychological issues are conflict between your consciousness and subconsciousnes, respectively, between our experience of reality and our idea of reality. When reality doesn't live up to my expectations, I am distressed.

The only way to become better is not to change the world, obviously, but to give up on your delusions and come to terms with the world and love it for what it is.

To finish the parallel; there's plenty to enjoy about the game regardless of what the lore is like (how often does the lore directly affect the roleplay?).

Make RP not hate.

I'm so sorry for the rant. I haven't slept in three days.

[JamesCampbell]

As someone who is following the Lore Team very closely, in want of being inducted myself, I have seen these issues as a third party.

I've seen it in OOC chat, occasionally over the forums, and it can often come through in IC too.

I think the issue is that both parties are unwilling to yield and find some kind of compromise.

On Eric's part, you need to learn that everyone has a place, and there's a place for everyone. Surely the reason they won't accept you is good enough, and there's no reason you can't change your ways a bit, and fit into the mould a bit more. You act like you are entitled to be a part of the Dev team, when there are obviously issues that have not been addressed.

On the LoreDev's part, and I'll tar you all with the same brush here, there has been baiting, and unfortunately a few of you responded in what was seen as a harsh manner, and this was used against you. Surely If a proposition was made for Erik to change, then he would make more of an effort, in retrospect to what happened in the past.

All in all, I'll repeat the sentiment above me, before going through all the "official" means of solving the solution, have a bit of humanity, and try and talk it down, come to a compromise, and make sure that this community is better off with the decision you've all made, and that most people are happy.

Sorry to butt in, but I thought an "Outside Party" might be a benefit.

[Baka]

We do not tolerate harassment of any type here in our community. Period.

That being said, if someone is harassing you on a third-party platform, my advice is to block them. If someone is harassing you on OOC, the forums...please, please, PLEASE adminhelp it. We can't monitor everything and the sooner you grab our attention, the quicker we can help nip the problem in the bud by the form of OOC mutes, warnings, and if the problem precedes, bans. OOC is not to be used to start toxic squabbles, or criticism of staff members.

Staff members are not required to maintain open channels over third party means. All means required to provide criticism of decisions and lore are present here on the forums, we heavily advise you use them.

[Erik Tiber]

We do not tolerate harassment of any type here in our community. Period.

That being said, if someone is harassing you on a third-party platform, my advice is to block them. If someone is harassing you on OOC, the forums...please, please, PLEASE adminhelp it. We can't monitor everything and the sooner you grab our attention, the quicker we can help nip the problem in the bud by the form of OOC mutes, warnings, and if the problem precedes, bans. OOC is not to be used to start toxic squabbles, or criticism of staff members.

Staff members are not required to maintain open channels over third party means. All means required to provide criticism of decisions and lore are present here on the forums, we heavily advise you use them.

 

The majority of my misbehavior was me ranting over OOC without them present, which I apologize for, as well as a handful of posts in the lore applications subforum. Aside from the single incident over pager with Jackboot (which, again, I apologize for), I have not sent harassing PM's, pages, or messages to the lore team on the forum or via third party means.

I made a handful of posts criticizing Imatool in the lore subforum. Of the times lore members were there over OOC, there was the incident with Skrell. I can't recall any others off the top of my head.

What I did in OOC, previous to my talk with Skull, is not excusable. The OOC misbehavior has ceased. Outside of the early incident (which I apologize for Jackboot), there was no intentional campaign of harassment. Primarily it was me ranting like a jackass. Given Xander's continued misbehavior in OOC following the end to this behavior, claims of recent harassment on their part are of more than dubious veracity.

No one was "chosen over" anyone else during lore developer applications. Erik would have been denied even if no one else had applied or Tytos was denied as well.

Xanderdox' behaviour is an issue worthy of consideration and this will be addressed outside of this complaint. Erik's behaviour predates his interaction with Xander, and cannot be used as an excuse.

Acknowledging that he was being an 'asshole' settles the dilemma on if it was an intentional campaign.

Knowing if Delta's logs on "baiting" come before or after this talk Erik had with Skull will determine my desired course of action.

It was before the talk with Skull. Skype logs can confirm. As can OOC logs, I suppose. It was likely about a week, maybe more, maybe less, before the talk.

I would very much like to bury the hatchet. I am quite sure I could have productive discussions with Jackboot and Xander. I have already had productive discussions with Xander. Prior to his latest outburst, I thought I had buried the hatchet with Xander, and they had explicitly said as much themselves. I would very much like to resume some manner of civility in OOC. I will not engage in further misconduct, as I have already told Skull days prior to this complaint being posted.

I would also like to acknowledge that I was not all that productive previously as a member of the lore team. There are many stupid decisions I've made. I would like to move beyond those and would like to make clear that I have at least somewhat changed.

[Baka]

Right.

Whatever you all decide to do, remember: if you're going to play on this server, we ask that you at least tolerate one another. You don't have to like a person. But I don't want to see anymore potshots on OOC towards each other.

If you decide to all talk it out, that's your affair.

I'll be leaving this open for a bit if anyone else wants to reply.

[Guest]

I would like to make a point in Erik's defense. He is, by far, not the the originator of the hard criticism against the lore team that is sometimes thrown around. Many people share the sentiment he might have and it is not just because of some plot to discredit and slander.

I'll adress the main criticism and that is the lore team being viewed useless, a tight nit club of people who determine how players should play their characters, while being datached from the wishes and views of the general community. While undeserved, I can absolutelly see where it's coming from, especially after talking to a person who had such a view until they had an oportunity to actually talk about current lore developments. In my opinion, the issues stem from lack of transparency in lore development. Most players don't even know when, how and what changes are being implamented, so must rely on heresay and rumours. Of course, other than the Wiki, which is not exactly in the way of most players' browsing routine.

The thing is, people will continue to hate on the lore team as long as this issue isn't settled, at least to this extent. Providing a greater feeling of participation wouldn't hurt either.

[Skull132]

While this is potentially not a debate for this thread, I'm going to slot it in here regardless.

As I already told to Erik, if he wishes to take on the sentiment of, "I will be the flag bearer for these people who share my view!" then doing it successfully and correctly becomes his sole responsibility. The moment he says that he will listen to someone's concerns about lore, and says that he will take the issues over, is the moment where he takes over the responsibility in question, not the lore team. And if he wishes to conduct himself in a manner that is, ultimately childish, then this is a massive error of character for Erik. The issue with that is one of lacking communication: he has, from what you claim and from what he himself claimed to me, taken over the so-called task of solving the lore issues for other people who have them. But in his way of doing so, these issues are never really aired. The actual legitimate solution to this would be Erik gaining an understanding of that responsibility, and then being the bridge layer between those people and the lore team. The lore team actually legitimately try their best to get feedback from folks (a lot of threads were put up before major changes were made), but you can't get it from all the people at once, unless they speak up. As I've said about myself, I will say about the lore team: if you have an issue, talk to them. The worst thing you can do is give the issue to someone who has no power nor say over it, because this right here is the result of such action.

So either Erik needs to wise up, and understand that this is not how responsibility is managed. Or the people he is supposedly protecting need to wise up and talk to the lore team. From there on, we can start discussing whether or not the lore team listen to the criticism properly, and addressing that.

Super-TL;DR: If you have issues with the lore, bring them to the lore team directly. Cause this poor sod, the target of this complaint, doesn't have any say over these issues and will just end up catching more flak because of you.

[Baka]

Mmkay. Since this case was brought up and made known, and advice/warning was given, I will be closing and locking the thread.

If people are continuing to harass, please bring it to our attention directly.

PM me if you have question or concern about this topic.