Chain of Command (ERT+Heads)

[Guest]

Due to a recent shift, where ERT and command staff really conflicted (due to a Head of Staff not wanting to follow an unreasonable order from an ERT Trooper), I'd like to propose a operation procedure and chain of command for Heads of Staff+ERT.

Basically, it goes like this:

CODE GREEN/BLUE (Non-hostile emergency, medical relief, prisoner transfer etc)

ERT Leadership (Comm,L/Tpr,Sub)>Captain>Relevant Head to Emergency (I.e CMO in virus outbreak>Heads of Staff=|=ERT Troopers

This means, the ERT COs have the final calls, but we dont have ERT grunts with guns that may have no formal command training barking orders at a Captain that has probably worked for 20 years and is in charge of an entire station. This however, does not mean ERT Troopers must follow Head of Staff orders, merely, they must not try to order around Heads, or go against their direct wishes. The Captain would still have near-absolute authority over the station, neglecting the ERT Leadership, who should still be taking the Captain's wishes and advice into concern.

CODE RED (Hostile emergency, cult, Nuke Ops, other

ERT Leadership>Captain>ERT Troopers>Heads of Staff

This means that the Captain remains in command, and has a large say in what the ERT actually do to respond to the crisis, while still having to bend to the will of ERT Leadership. This also places the non-leader ERT Troopers above the Heads of Staff, this is merely so they can get things done faster with little to no interference. Placing the Captain above the troopers but not ERT leadership prevents the whole, ERT Troopers spitting in Command's face thing, while still giving them then necessary power to control the situation the way they wish.

CODE DELTA (Alien Infestation)

ERT Leadership>ERT Troopers>All Command Staff

This is obvious, the station is going to be nuked, ERT have full control over everything. Duh.

[Tainavaa]

This is still an IC solution to an OOC problem.

And complicated.

UPDATE: I want to add in that when you call ERT, you relinquish any authority you have regarding the emergency to ERT. When the cops call in SWAT because they deemed it necessary, guess who's taking command of the operation? Motherfucking SWAT.

If the problem is dire enough for Central Command to directly intervene, it is dire enough for their delegates to take command.

I wholeheartedly oppose this suggestion.

[Guest]

This is still an IC solution to an OOC problem.

And complicated.

UPDATE: I want to add in that when you call ERT, you relinquish any authority you have regarding the emergency to ERT. When the cops call in SWAT because they deemed it necessary, guess who's taking command of the operation? Motherfucking SWAT.

If the problem is dire enough for Central Command to directly intervene, it is dire enough for their delegates to take command.

I wholeheartedly oppose this suggestion.

 

I've had to call ERT because Im merely lacking department staff to actually handle the situation. Which its not actually an emergency, I just need people to command to actually do something, such as a lack of sec and people committing petty crimes, or a bunch of injured but there are no medical staff, but no one is critical.

[Tainavaa]

I will repeat something, and this is very important that it is understood because this is a thing that goes for all things; corporate, governmental, military, and otherwise. Central Command is superior to Aurora's ranks. So I'll repeat this again.

If the situation is dire enough for Central Command to directly intervene, it is dire enough for their delegates to take command.

You'll find that in that statement, it completely encompasses what you described and anything else you could possibly describe for calling ERT. Because here's a fact. It was dire enough for Central Command to directly intervene.

It doesn't matter if you called ERT for something you see as petty. If it is important enough for direct intervention from your superiors, it is important enough to relieve authority to them. Because Central Command is their boss. Not you. They were sent to do a mission. It will be done, no matter how petty.

[Skull132]

These suggestions are a class one example of how to produce a clusterfuck and a three quarters with an ineffective and overly complex chain of command. If it takes more than one sentence to explain who you're taking orders from, then the situation is pretty much fucked. At least, as far as a 2D game of spessmans goes. And in this case, it would be roughly 3 to 6, to account for all of the conditions you brought up. And who will this hurt? Well, probably you. Because guess what? It'll start producing more conflict than is already present (sometimes) between ERT and command staff.

EDIT: I think I failed to get across how terribly this may end. Here's the basis of a well functioning team: cohesion. You know exactly who your boss is, and the boss knows exactly who his subordinates are. The boss knows that every single order he issues to his subordinates is executed. He knows this, he expects this, that is how it goes. If you slot in an extra link here, one that does not listen to the boss, then what you create is a capacity for that foreign link to override the boss's word. And if that foreign link is bad enough, he'll do so without informing the boss.

Example:

Boss: "I need the bridge fortified, 2 and 3, get it done."

2 & 3: "Alright, moving."

Captain: "Uh. 2, and 3, what are you doing? Please don't do this. I'm ordering you to stop."

2 & 3: "Uh... Alright... Stopping... Sir..."

The order given was not executed. But the thing is: the Boss expected that order to be executed. He planned for it to be executed. And every single move that he has made since issuing that order has been made with the knowledge of, "Right. I have 2 and 3 fortifying the bridge." Little does he know that the Captain rendered 2 and 3 useless, his order invalid. What happens next? One, potentially very vital link of the plan is gone. Poof. Because of this foreign link. Because of this extra element. And if the boss wanted to use the fortified bridge? Tough luck, he can't anymore.

This creates unnecessary complications and needless shit for ERT to trudge through because someone got pissed.

Further. If this CoC was put into effect. And if I ever became L/Tpr on a call. Here is the order I would issue to the Captain and the Command Staff:

"Under no circumstances are you to issue orders to my subordinates. Regardless of circumstance, you are to listen to any orders, instructions and guidance issued by my subordinates."

With the CoC you outlined, the ERT commander, in this case me, as the L/Tpr, has ultimate command over the command staff. As such, this order is valid and requires execution. Actually, no, because it is circumventing the CoC. However, the fact that this is possible basically invalidates the entire proposal -- gray areas like this should not exist, and this is exactly why a proper CoC exists.

I still cannot stress the point above enough. A CoC as outlined above is like asking for trouble.

There are three forces with the capacity to directly exert operational control over the station and its crew:

• The Command Staff
• The Emergency Response Team
  
• The Duty Officers

 

Only one party has operational control at any given time.

This is why you see ERT escorting DOs: DOs have control, and ERT is playing support for them, with the station adhering to their command.

This is why you see ERT push DOs aside once they are called: ERT is activated, they are given a task, and their task is given priority above all else.

This is why you see the Command Staff get nulled and shoved into the background as necessary: their actions have called for the activation and commitment of an external resources to solve a problem, because they lack that resource. More often than not, this resource includes training and mental capacity to solve problems. The resource better tooled to solve the specific problem is given command, and because the Command Staff is the most general purpose out of all three options, they get sidelined the moment either of the other two resources are switched on.

Now, here's another thing. ERT is specially trained. They are skilled individuals who can probably outdo your CMO with acclaimed 20 years of experience in their specific task. They are specialists. And the nature of ERT dictates that they are sent to solve a specialized problem. A specialized problem that the onboard staff, Command Staff included, lacks the resources and knowledge for solving (expected, anyways. Individual cases may differ). The way NT has chosen to utilize these specialists is to give them autonomy over the Command Staff and station crew. Which works.

The alternative is that they be fully subjugated to the station Command Staff. But this would stop them from solving cases where the issue happens to be the Command Staff. This is the only other functional alternative.

Ultimately, if you have issues relinquishing your command, then that's your issue.

If you have issues with the conduct of ERT players, then ERT bans are a thing. Adminhelp/player complaint as necessary.

EDIT 2:

All of this shit comes with two caveats attached that I take for granted, but others don't.

2. Orders are never questioned in the field (minus the very retarded places, where the order issued circumvents guidance from higher).
   
   The time and place for reviewing any sort of orders issued in a fast paced scenario is after the fact. This means that even if you do not agree with the methods used, with the approach taken, with the commander's vision of execution, you go along with it regardless. You stow your ego, and you follow your orders. And then, afterwards, you review these with the personnel involved.
4. The ERT leader takes responsibility for all actions of his team.
   
   This is the thing that some folks probably don't really get. As captain, having ERT called is actually an amazing thing: your hands are off the control stick and it's someone else's turn to sort out this mess. Go, help them, and work with them. If shit goes sour, guess what: they are responsible, as long as they issued the order and it wasn't you trying to pull a stupid stunt. If the ERT royally fucks the situation, then that's their issue. Not yours. You are not responsible, nor concerned. Couple this with point one, and all of your world's problems, as Captain, with ERT onboard, should just go away. At least, they do for me.
   
   One final edit. Thus point would be null and void with the proposed CoC. The Captain would suddenly find himself responsible for the actions of the ERT members, as much as the ERT leader. This means that if the ERT leader fucks up with his team, it is also the Captain's fuck up. The Captain is suddenly expected to not only monitor the crew and their actions, but also the ERT and their actions. This double focus will be damning. Also, before anyone says, "But Skull! That's not how it works!" That is exactly how it works. There is no half-assed position where you can issue orders without being responsible for the rest of tbe actions that your subordinates take. You either go in fully, or you stay out of it.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

What's exactly stopping the ERT to have a perma code red while the entire rest of the server just want the round to end?

-1

[Tainavaa]

Skull articulated it much better than I did but those are my exact sentiments.

And I, too, have the sneaking suspicion that command simply does not want to give up their power. Which is not only childish but definitely a sign of power lust.

[Eliot Clef]

I objected to this the last time it came up, and I'm objecting to it again now.

If there are problematic ERT members, you need to be noting down their names and making complaints to get them blacklisted. If we're getting too many newbie ERT members, we can require people to have played for X amount of time before they're allowed to go ERT.

An actual ERT whitelist is going to mean ERT never gets filled.

ERT needs unambiguous, overriding authority that doesn't require a bunch of nonsense internal politics or ifs/ands/buts that may involve having to contend with potentially compromised Heads of Staff being able to countermand their orders. Yes, even the Troopers.

[Conservatron]

if you don't want ERT stepping on your toes as command, don't call ERT unless you really need to

[Jamini]

if you don't want ERT stepping on your toes as command, don't call ERT unless you really need to

QFT

no seriously. Stop calling ERT for engineering emergencies when I have a competent team fixing said emergency. It's getting old.

[Conservatron]

let me give a real life example

the city of Detroit in the USA has had major financial and economic problems for decades now and recently called upon the state to fix everything. This was their 'ERT' and the state sent in the crisis manager who proceeded to do what they needed to do, basically slashing and burning the 'waste' as they saw, it got a ton of people in the city government pissed off but guess what, they don't matter because its not their call anymore. They called for help, they got the help and they have absolutely no say in what happens from then on.

so here''s the chain of command I suggest

Duty officer>ERT lead> ERT trooper> Captain> heads

and that's in all scenarios it doesn't matter whats going on

[Guest]

if you don't want ERT stepping on your toes as command, don't call ERT unless you really need to

QFT

no seriously. Stop calling ERT for engineering emergencies when I have a competent team fixing said emergency. It's getting old.

 

That's not what they meant.

They meant, 'Stop calling ERT if you clearly do not need the assistance'. I cannot tell you how many times an ERT has been called, I've been the first person to spawn in as an L/Tpr to stop nuke ops, and security has already shot up all of the ops by the time we deploy on the station.

I also cannot tell you how many times I've rushdeployed as a mediERT for a super deadly virus only to have the virus completely cured anyway by a Mary Sue scientist

The point of calling an ERT is getting someone who is assumed to be millions of times more qualified than the average crew member to fix shit up, announce shit has been fixed, and then leave without another word because they've done their job.

Don't call ERT unless you really need it. The station either has to be half-fucked or is about to be really fucked in order for an ERT to best operate and fix shit. In addition, it allows for the ERT players themselves to enjoy themselves as they're assisting in damage control, medical assistance or security reinforcement, rather than being rendered completely useless as soon as they step onto the station.

[Jamini]

if you don't want ERT stepping on your toes as command, don't call ERT unless you really need to

QFT

no seriously. Stop calling ERT for engineering emergencies when I have a competent team fixing said emergency. It's getting old.

 

That's not what they meant.

They meant, 'Stop calling ERT if you clearly do not need the assistance'.

 

That is exactly what I said Delta.

At least five times to my memory, I've had a captain or another head call in an ERT for an engineering emergency, only to have the issue fixed with on-station staff before they arrive. This is often over my own objections.

People need to save the ERT as a last-minute hail-mary trump card. They aren't the captain's personal soldiers or 911-Engineers-On-Call.

[SierraKomodo]

I had a discussion with other DOs awhile back regarding the chain of command for the purpose of Kunai's ranking system, and while this was /not/ an official decision on who commands who on station, what we came up with was something along the lines of this:

ERT is called:

ERT Leader > ERT Trooper > Captain > Command Staff

(There is also the ERT Commander and Duty Officers, but they rarely show up if at all in game, and for DO's even if they do appear, they have no authority over the emergency situation)

ERT Escort for the DO:

ERT has no authority over the station beyond what's necessary to ensure the DO's safety. DO commands the ERT until ERT decides there is a threat to the DO, then the ERT takes charge of the DO.

[PoZe]

I like the skull's respond. It was clear and with any specific issues.

I want to note that I have seen scenario when XanderDox where a captain, he has requested a medical ERT and he started to order to them.

L/Tpr[commans] " Arrest X for neglect of duty. And raise code to red"

Captain[command ] "You have no authority here to give command to us, we have requested a medical ERT, not security. Please deal with our medical issue and don't bother us about security issues."

Captain were lucky that Leading trooper were a new player, seems to be. So he obeyed to that ridiculous statement from the captain. However, even if ERT is a medical it doesn't mean that they cannot do security job or make orders/advise about so. They have basic training in every department and specific in one with more deep knowledge.

[Guest]

EDIT: Removed, misquoted

Edited June 10, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

I like the skull's respond. It was clear and with any specific issues.

I want to note that I have seen scenario when XanderDox where a captain, he has requested a medical ERT and he started to order to them.

L/Tpr[commans] " Arrest X for neglect of duty. And raise code to red"

Captain[command ] "You have no authority here to give command to us, we have requested a medical ERT, not security. Please deal with our medical issue and don't bother us about security issues."

Captain were lucky that Leading trooper were a new player, seems to be. So he obeyed to that ridiculous statement from the captain. However, even if ERT is a medical it doesn't mean that they cannot do security job or make orders/advise about so. They have basic training in every department and specific in one with more deep knowledge.

 

Yup, I did that, because at the time, the L/Tpr's name was abbreviated Tpr, so I didn't know they were the leader, secondly, they gave me the reason why they wanted Code Red, and it was very, very dumb which is why I refused to up it, I didn't even call for a Medical ERT directly, just a Medical Support Team to boost my empty medical department because people got hurt, yet they came in full hardsuits and weapons. And yes, I refused to have the person arrested, because what I viewed them as doing in my eyes was not considered Neglect of Duty and I needed them to be working.

I will always as Captain, oppose an ERT that tries to be rude to my staff, I call ERT because I need their assistance, not them to take away my role in the game. Loyalty Implant makes me seek whats best for the company, and if that means ignoring the ERT while they fix shit, so be it.