Apartment Server Ban - My Grievances

[Frances]

Alright, thread's gone and locked, people have had a few days to cool off, and I'm of the opinion that it's time to start this up again, because I am frankly not happy with the way administration has handled this.

Let's look at a short list of issues I find with the whole ban/announcement:

 

• Admins have banned someone because of what that person did on another server (their very own private server, no less.)
• Admins permabanned a person for releasing logs of ERP - not from Aurora's server - to an enclosed group.
  
• Admins are taking a stance that mocking ERP is really serious (when literally nobody gave a shit about it until now, and Aurora staff has also dealt with ERP with a very similar attitude until recently.)
  
• Doomberg told me somebody sending others unsolicited pictures of his penis is less serious than ERP logs being laughed at, somehow.
  
• Admins retroactively explained that Cassie's ban reason was because "she was stirring up trouble on the forums", yet they've not elaborated on that at all or provided concrete examples yet.
  
• This whole affair was turned into a really unnecessary announcement, which somewhat makes it look like admins are interested in policing everyone in their free time, and that they'll get banned if they don't agree with the staff's policies. (And before you come and say that it's not what you mean to be doing, it, kinda is what you're doing now.)

 

That's all I can think of for now, but lemme know if I should add anything to that list.

Discuss.

Oh, and please, be nice to each other. No one's out to harm anyone else, so be civil, and your voice will have a much higher chance of being heard V vV

[Thundy]

I have gathered what has happened. My only query:

What do you want the end result to be? What's the conclusion? How do we make this right?

[Frances]

I'm not sure here. I personally believe admins have been in the wrong to make the choices they made. I'd ideally like either for them to somehow to convince me (and others) of the rightness of their actions, or, if that's not possible, for as many users as possible to properly understand what happened here.

[Thundy]

See I see what people think should happen being split into two things:

1. Cass is unbanned, everyone says sorry and things go back to normal

2. Cass is not unbanned, everyone fights, people get over it and things go back to normal

Cass has expressed the fact that she doesn't want to come back. The administration has said that they have made some mistakes. Players have said they'll leave, players have said good job, everyone seems divided.

I would like to know what people really think the best outcome is here? Like, truly, do you want doom to say sorry? Do you want the ban to stay in place? I'm confused as to what the players really want.

In the end though, I don't mind. I will continue playing here whether the outcome I want happens or not.

[Guest]

There is no best outcome. The ship has sailed, the bridges have burned, etc. The staff fucked up in a way that leaves no way to un-fuck up.

I'd at least like an admission of some fault. But no one's going to get that.

[Thundy]

There is no best outcome. The ship has sailed, the bridges have burned, etc. The staff fucked up in a way that leaves no way to un-fuck up.

I'd at least like an admission of some fault. But no one's going to get that.

 

I don't see that as constructive at all. If I had done something wrong as a player, I'd hope for Grace from the staff and a second chance. By saying that, you are denying anyone involved what they need to rectify this; Grace.

[Frances]

I think it's important not to make assumptions about everyone's final viewpoint yet.

We're just here to discuss the issue for now. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and pass any hasty judgments.

[Guest]

The ship has sailed, Frances.

There is nothing that can be done. No admission of guilt will solve anything.

The only path is forward.

[Frances]

Okay, do you want to fix issues with your server, or not?

Because what I'm getting from these comments is "we don't agree with what the staff did, but there's nothing that can be done so we don't care."

[Tenenza]

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what happened. I wasn't there to see things go down first hand, I haven't even started trying to tangle out what happened based on second hand accounts, and frankly, I don't have an interest in doing so. Why don't I care? Well, Cassie got banned, perhaps unfairly and without proper justification, sure I can get behind that arguement. But if Cassie doesn't actually want to get unbanned, then what's there to say on it? Doom might not be the most tactful speaker, but I think the general gist of what he's saying, that it's better if someone breaks a rule outright rather then dodge around the rules in order to be discreetly hurtful to people. It's like, would you rather get stabbed by someone in front of you, or stabbed by someone in the back? Maybe I'm reading too much into it. So, in my view, if it's worth anything, it seems like there is a justification for the ban. Is it a good justification? Eh, I dunno, it's an 'in the eye of the beholder' type deal. But if Cassie doesn't actually want to properly contest that, then I don't see any reason to keep arguing, especially when I need to clean up after all the rule violations of arguements that get too toxic.

[Frances]

This is about more than Cassie. This is about how admins treat their players, and how they respond to incidents.

Sure, it didn't happen to you, but how will you feel when you're the one to get banned because of something you did off-server? And what will you do when you come to contest the ban, only to be told you were "kind of a dick" in a nonspecific manner?

I'm worried because I really don't see the minimum of professionalism and common sense I've come to expect from admins on here.

Also, if someone gets banned unjustly, and gives up on appealing their case, should you really give up on them, saying "well, they don't care anyway?" I still see a wrongdoing here, and it doesn't sit right with me to let it happen.

[Tenenza]

I have no idea why Cassie doesn't want to appeal.

Honestly, I actually have trouble putting myself in their shoes as a result.

Cassie has shown pretty well that they don't want to come back, and for whatever reason Cassie has, I'm sure it's good enough for them.

But, Cassie didn't properly contest the ban, and as a result, I cannot say that it's my place to judge the rational of the ban.

It's an issue of professionalism. I respect the other members of the staff, and I trust them to make the right decisions.

Sometimes, they make decisions I disagree with, but unless the involved players also disagree with it, I trust the staff to make the right decisions.

Cassie didn't file an unban appeal or even a staff complaint.

If Cassie had, then this would be a different matter entirely, and I would have to sift through all the data and accounts to make a judgement.

But that isn't the case, and this is such a unique situation that I can't imagine a precedent is set by it.

[Frances]

But, Cassie didn't properly contest the ban, and as a result, I cannot say that it's my place to judge the rational of the ban.

So, because the user in question didn't submit an appeal, you won't bother looking at whether the ban was legitimate or not, even if other users are expressing concern it might not be?

Also,

Sometimes, they make decisions I disagree with, but unless the involved players also disagree with it, I trust the staff to make the right decisions.

You're very polite and reasonable, and though I don't know you well at all, I feel like respecting you, and think you're a good mod. However, I'd really like to warn you against this kind of thinking. Following your superiors blindly isn't always good - there's a difference between trusting someone, and assuming them to be entirely clear of wrongdoings. You being in the position of a mod, regular user, or the server's own headmin has no bearing in this case - this is the kind of incident that I encourage you to investigate yourself, and draw your own conclusions from. Only then should you decide if the rest of the staff is worthy of your trust.

There's one reason why I didn't make this thread an admin complaint: I wanted to give everyone a chance to discuss it frankly, without the need for the "speedy resolution" that admin complaints often call for. Because admin complaints, frankly, are up to other admins to investigate and resolve - and this is a matter for the community to decide on, not staff.

[Guest Menown]

The ship sails itself, Frances.

There is nothing that can be done. No admission of attraction will solve anything.

The only path is forward.

Aurora x Apartment Server. OTP.

[Guest]

Okay, do you want to fix issues with your server, or not?

Because what I'm getting from these comments is "we don't agree with what the staff did, but there's nothing that can be done so we don't care."

 

Is it defeatist if I believe this is the case?

The issues don't fix themselves, but it's not like I have any power to fix them either.

I don't happen to care anymore. I don't give two shits about what's right or wrong with this server. As long as it doesn't inhibit ME from playing, I'm not obliged to give two fucks about it. I'm prepping to ship out for Basic Training, and then a slight break for awhile, and then getting shipped to wherever for whatever reason.

These problems are not my problems. That is how it works. It is foolish and illogical to make things your own problem when those things don't even apply to you in the first place. There's no point. You (I don't mean you personally, I'm just saying in general relating to people, when I refer to 'you') cannot use people or their own ideals as shields for your own cause. It is a horrid example to be setting for the community.

I'm not in the business of politics either. I'm in this for myself. I don't care how selfish I look by saying this, but it is the truth.

Recent events have made me realize how awfully pointless a lot of these things are.

However, despite all of that, I have a choice. I can either choose to play here while I can or I can choose to leave. This is the standard that my closest friends have been telling me all about, as to why they're even here. I never listened to them because I thought I could benefit the community in some way if I just tried hard enough.

But, hey, believe it or not. You do less damage and help the most when you do absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of 'the community.' The best way you can participate is just by playing the game that this community is centered around.

You know why all of this started? You know why we've been having these problems since December?

Because some people decided to make it all about them.

They decided to detract from the actual point as to why we're all here, and make some sort of inexplicable excuse as to how their way is the only or the best way.

Now most of those people are well and gone. It first started with a certain someone who wanted to force the development process and go over the heads of the dev team by implementing really horrid changes such as making engineering an impenetrable fortress and having security be, quite frankly, the most disorderly pile of crap and most unsecure department on the station.

And then a few other people decided to just... disappear. They stopped playing on Aurora, oh, sure. But then they thought it to be within their GOD-GIVEN RIGHT, oh, YESSIR. To think, no, to BELIEVE, that they were the ONE person to shitpost all across the forums in blind rage and fucking irrational HATRED for everything.

Let me say this, before I continue. Fuck. This person. May they writhe in another despicable pit of projection and self-righteousness.

And, unsurprisingly, it would seem that people fell for this. They quite frankly believed, that this person was unequivocally right. That their blind hatred and reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-age, was completely reasonable and not cancerous at all. Their number increased, and thus the army of buttholes grew.

These buttholes would continue to shitpost on the forums about how everything went oh-so-horrible : (, and that it was the fault of someone else. Not them, of course, they didn't contribute to the problem AT ALL, and they weren't contributing to it presently. No, no, no, they had the fucking gall to make the assumption that they were, arguably, not just right, but more right. Than anyone else. Amongst present company. How fun.

But? You know what? It doesn't matter. Ultimately, it does not matter. By extension, the game itself doesn't really matter either. I don't play here for the admins. I play here to have a fun time. So really, screw anyone who thinks differently. My experience shouldn't matter to any of you, at all.

But hey, we're here to have fun and waste away months of our lives playing this hilariously stupid game, not to make our lives meaningful in any fashion.

Anyone who tries to threaten that should really fuck off, to be honest.

[Guest]

And, to clarify further.

It's never been about the admins. At all.

It's always been about 'me me me me me.'

[Thundy]

Wow wow wow. No. Don't do that. Name calling is not what Frances write this thread about, stop it now.

[Guest]

Kerbal, please don't attack our community members like that, it's rude, unneeded, and frankly a shitty thing to do in general. I've done it before, to Delta as well, but I felt like shit and realized it's not something I should ever be doing.

The event did not explode into what it did because of Delta or people like Delta, it exploded merely because of a fast action before major discussion took place, and the immaturity of the server making every player think they were supposed to give opinions. No more, no less.

Ad hominem is a no-no.

[Erik Tiber]

I have no idea why Cassie doesn't want to appeal.

Honestly, I actually have trouble putting myself in their shoes as a result.

Cassie has shown pretty well that they don't want to come back, and for whatever reason Cassie has, I'm sure it's good enough for them.

But, Cassie didn't properly contest the ban, and as a result, I cannot say that it's my place to judge the rational of the ban.

It's an issue of professionalism. I respect the other members of the staff, and I trust them to make the right decisions.

Sometimes, they make decisions I disagree with, but unless the involved players also disagree with it, I trust the staff to make the right decisions.

Cassie didn't file an unban appeal or even a staff complaint.

If Cassie had, then this would be a different matter entirely, and I would have to sift through all the data and accounts to make a judgement.

But that isn't the case, and this is such a unique situation that I can't imagine a precedent is set by it.

I can explain the reason.

A complete loss of faith in the administration. It as not seen as worth it. Soundscopes had already demonstrated that they were siding with the staff against all reason, and the staff had demonstrated themselves to be completely unreasonable. The headmin and head dev were the ones being complained about and the ones in charge of the complaints. Soundscopes was obviously biased, and many people supported an absurd and unreasonable position.

The staff had been dealt with for several months on end, progress was not made, and for speaking up and raising legit issues Skull and Doomberg saw Cassie as a 'toxic individual' causing the problems, doing their damnedest to ignore every major problem with the server and instead blaming the complainer.

That's the mindset. This was an opportunity to finally sever ties. Now, the Aurora staff can't abuse us like this again, because they have no power or leverage over us. This is worth far more than what is gained from the server. I will certainly regret leaving many characters behind, but many Aurora regulars have already left due to the problems the staff have neglected to solve, the ones they have actively repressed dialogue on (brought up in the first thread), and the ones they even cause themselves in this case.

The idea with the reddit thread was to either 1. Embarass Skull and Doomberg into, hopefully, stepping down, or at least get them to show some humility, undo the ban as a symbolic measure, and actually change policy. Or 2. warn other players on other servers about the numerous problems on Aurora and the toxic environment present, so they won't have to suffer through it.

The fact that Doomberg responded by claiming thatwe had 'done no damage' shows that he chose Option 2. After the thread, the choice is no longer ours. The initiative is purely on Skull and Doomberg. They caused this mess. Now my group has no obligation to them, they have no power over us, and we have no reason to actively do anything for them. We can be honest for once and don't have to lie for fear of losing social capital or losing the favor of the staff. And we don't have to promise to keep quiet about the issue or anything. We can simply... go on, be normal players, and act like normal people.

I intend no insult. This is simply me being honest in my dealings. I'm stating my opinion and a number of facts. Whether people see this as somehow an ad hominem is up to them. For those of you like Frances that have somehow still maintained the will to stay, if you want to fix Aurora then I'd advise actually listening to what Cassy and Rectum said. And I'd think very carefully about the heads of staff.

When I say the staff, I primarily refer to the heads. I don't mean everyone. Hell, we even have some staff and ex-staff in our 'insidious' metaclique.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

Regulars that leave don't mean anything... They'll just be replaced by more people as newbies become regulars

[Erik Tiber]

Regulars that leave don't mean anything... They'll just be replaced by more people as newbies become regulars

If you want to ignore the fact that the name 'Aurora' has now joined the ranks of Hypatia in terms of the reputation of its head administration, and justly so, be my guest.

Again, I have no obligation to help you, no desire for you to actually listen to me. The nice thing is, your opinion is now entirely irrelevant to me. As is that of the staff. Given the exemplary efforts of Skull and Doomberg to reach the position of "Worst Staff of 2015", and my complete lack of attachment to Aurora, the ball is now in their court. And yours. Do with my advice as you like.

I certainly wish the best for the players of Aurora. The community is in pretty bad shape, fragmented into dozens of private skype groups, gossiping and politiking. Much of it linked to the problems Cassy outlined and the staff failed to act upon. The server lacks a clear focus. You can't appeal to everyone. And until a focus is defined, there'll be political maneuvering and warfare between the various sides. One side will lose, and maybe leave the server. But if you don't do anything, then you get this mess, with a divided and broken community.

I mean, there's also a number of other problems. In the words of Doomberg, you just need to look in Cassie's "entire posting history" to see the problem. Really, she does a good job of outlining them.

[Thundy]

I'm going to go ahead and no to that.

I have been a part of this community since September and I believe I have a say.

This place is not sinking, this community is not broken, we are all still holding it together and everyone is still playing together. I cannot see how these comments are warranted. People are butt hurt, on both sides. That's it.

We WILL move on. We won't stay in this place. It's not the end of the world. Take some time, take as long as you need but I am going to fight for this server, whether with the current people or new ones. I love you all but honestly, in a month, you'll turn around and laugh at how silly you've all been.

[Guest]

You wanna know what my real grievances are?

You all are the Devil, and this server is hell.

But, really. I love it all because of that.

[Frances]

• Admins have banned someone because of what that person did on another server (their very own private server, no less.)
• Admins permabanned a person for releasing logs of ERP - not from Aurora's server - to an enclosed group.
  
• Admins are taking a stance that mocking ERP is really serious (when literally nobody gave a shit about it until now, and Aurora staff has also dealt with ERP with a very similar attitude until recently.)
  
• Doomberg told me somebody sending others unsolicited pictures of his penis is less serious than ERP logs being laughed at, somehow.
  
• Admins retroactively explained that Cassie's ban reason was because "she was stirring up trouble on the forums", yet they've not elaborated on that at all or provided concrete examples yet.
  
• This whole affair was turned into a really unnecessary announcement, which somewhat makes it look like admins are interested in policing everyone in their free time, and that they'll get banned if they don't agree with the staff's policies. (And before you come and say that it's not what you mean to be doing, it, kinda is what you're doing now.)

I have not really seen any post discussing these points yet.

I would like to see more posts on these points and less vague posts about how the server is bad in general.

I would also like to see posts from the staff itself - a common trend with these threads is that they devolve into flame wars or off-topic before the staff has had a chance to respond, and consequently get locked.

[Skull132]

I have a quote to bring up here.

we don’t talk about FAILURES.

This, however is a mistake.

It is a mistake not to talk about our weaknesses because without that discussion, without that conversation, we FAIL.

 

Slightly modified, but fitting. What are these words? The words of an old mentor of mine. I'll see to upholding his advice once I get home from work, or if I have enough time during lunch.

Please don't burn down the thread in the mean time.