[Resolved] Ban Request: Ffrances

[Contextual]

BYOND Key: Contextual

Accused Players Byond Key: Ffrances

Time of Act: 10:21 Central, 8/17/2015

Reason for Ban:Player was rolling about in flamethrower fuel in the holodeck with a lit cigar in their mouth, repeatedly lighting themselves on fire, emoting being consumed by the flames, and making IC comments such as "haha i'm the human torch"[sic]. When ahelped, I was told that this is acceptable because "It doesn't do enough damage to kill them," by Garnascus. Staff complaint to follow. This is unacceptable behavior from a longstanding whitelisted player, especially when playing a command role.

Evidence: I unfortunately had connection issues at the time, but if an admin could pull the logs that would be wonderful, as the evidence is fairly damning.

[Guest]

I saw the welder fuel in the holodeck.

Garnascus, does this give me the right to table an entire row of command staff with force gloves as a non-antag just because it doesn't do any damage?

[Frances]

I can 100% fully confirm this has happened.

Welder fires are pretty silly due to a longstanding bug and not even worth mentioning. If you think this is worth a ban or a whitelist strip, go ahead, but it's not the first time I've seen people make fun of silly or broken gameplay mechanics.

[Baka]

If you knew it was silly, why did you do it anyhow? Would a sane CMO roll around in welding fuel for no reason?

[Frances]

If you knew it was silly, why did you do it anyhow? Would a sane CMO roll around in welding fuel for no reason?

I did it for the same reason you whisper "ayy lmao" to people, stuff your bag with mice (at least I think?) and played "catch the medbay".

Not a personal attack, by the way.

You can come up with a bunch of IC reasons to explain these silly things (in fact, I believe people should treat welder fuel as inert when outside a welder, because it does literally nothing except look pretty). So you could just say that my character understood that the welder fuel was safe and lit it up to put on a show, or, honestly, whatever. That's not really the important part, but doing what he did feels as silly to me as pretending to be burned by an imaginary fire.

The real reason is that it's fun to goof around with these tiny bugs. I've always felt like a large portion of the playerbase plays SS13 in part because of silly happenings. It's also the same reason why I've been wearing Runtime on my head for the past week.

[Baka]

What I did was relatively harmless than laying in welding fuel trying to light myself on fire, Frances. Even if it didn't work, from an IC stance that's stupid to do.

[Frances]

What I did was relatively harmless than laying in welding fuel trying to light myself on fire, Frances. Even if it didn't work, from an IC stance that's stupid to do.

Define harmless, because given the circumstances it could take on a lot of meanings?

[Baka]

Harmless is not able or likely to cause harm.

I don't know about you but last time I checked laying in welding fuel is not harmless. Now quit comparing apples and oranges.

[Frances]

I actually didn't lay in the fuel as much as I stood in it. Since we were talking about a puddle, I think that's worth being considered.

Anyway, if you mean that it's immersion-breaking, I won't deny it, but I'll argue the immersion was broken the moment you had things catching on fire without actually harming anyone. I could've pretended to be hurt (though people usually don't care about that) or simply walked it off, but I decided to play it off as a joke instead.

Is this worthy of a ban? I dunno. I would've probably banned myself, but I was a pretty shit admin back then.

[Tenenza]

I really want to know the specific IC reason your character had for this, it sounds hilarious.

[Guest]

I really want to know the specific IC reason your character had for this, it sounds hilarious.

 

Wow, you're really enabling this shit?

[Frances]

I really want to know the specific IC reason your character had for this, it sounds hilarious.

There was welder fuel in the holodeck, my character walked through it with a lit cigar, it caught on fire.

I wanted to see if it would catch on fire.

I immediately proceeded to drop and pretend to be terribly injured, then upon realizing the fire actually did nothing to me, had my character play it off as a joke. He then casually stood in the fire for a few minutes while conversing with other people, before going back to work because somebody needed him in the medbay.

[Tenenza]

I really want to know the specific IC reason your character had for this, it sounds hilarious.

There was welder fuel in the holodeck, my character walked through it with a lit cigar, it caught on fire.

I wanted to see if it would catch on fire.

I immediately proceeded to drop and pretend to be terribly injured, then upon realizing the fire actually did nothing to me, had my character play it off as a joke. He then casually stood in the fire for a few minutes while conversing with other people, before going back to work because somebody needed him in the medbay.

 

This is much less entertaining then expected.

As for a more serious analysis of this, I'd say that just because game mechanics don't enforce RP of being on fire, that that doesn't mean you get an excuse to just fuck around and exploit bugs. Maybe roleplay it off as it being a very low heat fire that's singeing your coat, but to just stand there going: I am on fire, how uninteresting and unconcerning, is frankly terrible RP in my opinion.

[Tenenza]

I really want to know the specific IC reason your character had for this, it sounds hilarious.

 

Wow, you're really enabling this shit?

Yes.

I like to ask questions.

When I do, I hope for interesting answers.

However, insight before interest.

[Frances]

This is much less entertaining then expected.

As for a more serious analysis of this, I'd say that just because game mechanics don't enforce RP of being on fire, that that doesn't mean you get an excuse to just fuck around and exploit bugs. Maybe roleplay it off as it being a very low heat fire that's singeing your coat, but to just stand there going: I am on fire, how uninteresting and unconcerning, is frankly terrible RP in my opinion.

I personally thought that was the humor in it.

However, some people will disagree, and have even insulted me for it. Nobody has seemed to be willing to have a polite discussion with me about it so far, though.

[Garnascus]

at the time i was looking around for who actually threw around the welder fuel and was checking through some logs, i admit i was conflicted a bit but i figured IC since its not even enough to cause damage then the fire was incredibly small and only seemed dangerous because of the sprite, the emoting and being consumed seems like a bit much too me however but... i feel uncomfortable banning someone for this. I definitely should have spoken too them though.

[Tenenza]

This is much less entertaining then expected.

As for a more serious analysis of this, I'd say that just because game mechanics don't enforce RP of being on fire, that that doesn't mean you get an excuse to just fuck around and exploit bugs. Maybe roleplay it off as it being a very low heat fire that's singeing your coat, but to just stand there going: I am on fire, how uninteresting and unconcerning, is frankly terrible RP in my opinion.

I personally thought that was the humor in it.

However, some people will disagree, and have even insulted me for it. Nobody has seemed to be willing to have a polite discussion with me about it so far, though.

 

I would then like to ask the question of whether or not you would reflect on your roleplay here to be of the standard you'd hope for a head white listed player to display.

[Frances]

I really wouldn't mind if people engaged in small jokes like that. I think it's more entertaining than everyone having generic super serious and professional characters, especially when we're repeating the same circle of doom and death several times a day.

Weirdly enough, I feel like it's also any community's mods' unspoken duty to curb and ban individuals engaging in such humor. And I can't really explain why that is, but it's just the way things are lol.

[Tenenza]

I really wouldn't mind if people engaged in small jokes like that. I think it's more entertaining than everyone having generic super serious and professional characters, especially when we're repeating the same circle of doom and death several times a day.

Weirdly enough, I feel like it's also any community's mods' unspoken duty to curb and ban individuals engaging in such humor. And I can't really explain why that is, but it's just the way things are lol.

 

Perhaps there is no fun to mischief if it isn't discovered and berated.

Or maybe I am musing idly again.

Either way, I'll leave time for others to give their ten cents and sleep on it for now.

[mirkoloio]

I'm just gonna throw something in here.

How come everyone's on Crusade lately? I mean, really? Do you guys really need to pick Ban Requests and complaints for every little thing? It almost sounds like you are actively trying to kick old players and generally other people out. That's quite unfun.

And adding: I think Frances Char is quite hilarious and a welcome addition to the server appart from all the "booo, you're way too funny be more serious" shit. Just stop trying to erradicate everything wich brings fun. THis is a game, not a "be-as-honest-and-unfun-as-possible" contest.

[Frances]

It almost sounds like you are actively trying to kick old players and generally other people out. That's quite unfun.

Just saying, I don't think this should be particularly relevant. I don't think the staff is on a crusade against old players specifically, and in fact I don't see how the time I've spent on the server relates to this complaint.

I appreciate your input for the rest of your post, though.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I saw this incident and thought it was mildly humorous. The fact that welding fuel is broke as balls doesn't really help anything. Why would he have to "RP it out" your way? She did RP it out. If it's not mechanically doing any harm, why should she be obligated to RP harm or otherwise be banned? The welding fuel wasn't RP'ing with her. It was bugged welding fuel. Just call it a low intensity flame or some sparklers.

[Garnascus]

I saw this incident and thought it was mildly humorous. The fact that welding fuel is broke as balls doesn't really help anything. Why would he have to "RP it out" your way? She did RP it out. If it's not mechanically doing any harm, why should she be obligated to RP harm or otherwise be banned? The welding fuel wasn't RP'ing with her. It was bugged welding fuel. Just call it a low intensity flame or some sparklers.

 

this was exactly my reasoning.

[Reyjakai]

It seems to me that this is just some people making an issue out of nothing because they don't agree with what someone did. Contemplating a ban because somebody was smoking and talking with people in welder fuel when welder fuel doesn't do anything on the ground? Are you serious? This is something that doesn't affect anybody but them, and nobody was hurt by it. Sure, it breaks immersion. Truly tragic. Plenty of things do that, and very rarely are they ban worthy, or even report worthy. Am I going to get banned for naming my mech "BOOTYSLAPPER" because it breaks immersion?

It's a stupid little situation that everybody made a fuss out of.

[Japak121]

It seems to me the issue is that there are two schools of thought at work, the same two schools of thought which will ALWAYS be at work:

1. Those who use heavy RP as a safe means to conduct there RP and occasionally goof around in a relatively safe and stable environment (safe and stable being relative to the rest of the servers on the hub).

2. Those who use heavy RP as a means to actually simulate what it would be like to work on a corporate space station.

The fact is that both of these schools of thought are at ends with each other and yet also happen to fit into the server's rules and guidelines. The staff are here to ensure that people who play on the server have a good time and follow the rules to ensure that other people have a good time. I see nothing here that diminishes the fun of others.

I'd also like to point out that this situation could have been chalked up to any number of things, considering this IS a fantasy sci-fi world we're roleplaying in. It could be assumed there character was insanely drunk, high on powerful medications, augmented somehow, or that there genes had be messed with. There are even people living there lives in real life who could actually roll around in flames due to genetic abnormalities or simply a very high tolerance for pain.

I'd like to close by saying; I think we all need to start communicating a little more with each other. If you take issue with something someone did, try talking to them directly and see if things can't be worked out. No one should jump straight to "ban he" over one very minor incident in which they believe the person ignored pain RP. The worst that should have happened was FFrances recieving a bwoink and a polite "Hey, uh.. whatcha doin? Please try and remember to Pain RP and ACT like the fire is burning. Thank you."