Nanotrasen Healthcare (RP heavy suggestion)

[Aetherscald]

This is a pretty simple idea. Only important people who would have cloning in their Nanotrasen healthcare plan should be cloned. This means Heads of Staff, Security, Engineers, and Scientists would be candidates for cloning. Civilians like Bartenders, Assistants, Cargo Techs, etc. would not. It makes sense that a large mega corporation like Nanotrasen would undercut employees like this and it also encourages people to not be as liberal with their lives or with killing people unless absolutely necessary.

From a gameplay perspective, I could see a lot of people not liking this idea because it would mean if someone ganked you and you were a botanist or chef or something then you'd have no chance of coming back unless you had on medical records that upon death you would want your brain donated to science or something.

This is just something that popped up in my head while reading through lore and I figured i'd run it by the suggestions board since i've noticed some discussion about Aurora not being a "true" heavy RP server.

[Aetherscald]

This is a pretty simple idea. Only important people who would have cloning in their Nanotrasen healthcare plan should be cloned. This means Heads of Staff, Security, Engineers, and Scientists would be candidates for cloning. Civilians like Bartenders, Assistants, Cargo Techs, etc. would not. It makes sense that a large mega corporation like Nanotrasen would undercut employees like this and it also encourages people to not be as liberal with their lives or with killing people unless absolutely necessary.

From a gameplay perspective, I could see a lot of people not liking this idea because it would mean if someone ganked you and you were a botanist or chef or something then you'd have no chance of coming back unless you had on medical records that upon death you would want your brain donated to science or something.

This is just something that popped up in my head while reading through lore and I figured i'd run it by the suggestions board since i've noticed some discussion about Aurora not being a "true" heavy RP server.

[LordFowl]

If we were to implement it mechanically, the most simple way I think would have it so that the cloning machine could only clone people that currently have a loyalty implant in their body. I personally would exclude security and science from the cloning plan, and even engineering if we were to do this as well. I'm all for making death more serious.

[LordFowl]

If we were to implement it mechanically, the most simple way I think would have it so that the cloning machine could only clone people that currently have a loyalty implant in their body. I personally would exclude security and science from the cloning plan, and even engineering if we were to do this as well. I'm all for making death more serious.

[Frances]

I used to advocate the removal of cloning, but people succeeded in convincing me there are no ways to make death in SS13 more serious - only ways to make it more annoying.

I personally feel like the problem is that dying happens so damn much. It's got little to do with the consequences. Simply put, when assistants die in droves every shift, it becomes sorta hard to keep your countenance and take it all seriously. This would likely achieve little more than annoying the people who do appreciate being cloned (I won't pretend I understand them, but I also see no valid reason to take away their rights).

[Frances]

I used to advocate the removal of cloning, but people succeeded in convincing me there are no ways to make death in SS13 more serious - only ways to make it more annoying.

I personally feel like the problem is that dying happens so damn much. It's got little to do with the consequences. Simply put, when assistants die in droves every shift, it becomes sorta hard to keep your countenance and take it all seriously. This would likely achieve little more than annoying the people who do appreciate being cloned (I won't pretend I understand them, but I also see no valid reason to take away their rights).

[Guest]

I used to advocate the removal of cloning, but people succeeded in convincing me there are no ways to make death in SS13 more serious - only ways to make it more annoying.

I personally feel like the problem is that dying happens so damn much. It's got little to do with the consequences. Simply put, when assistants die in droves every shift, it becomes sorta hard to keep your countenance and take it all seriously. This would likely achieve little more than annoying the people who do appreciate being cloned (I won't pretend I understand them, but I also see no valid reason to take away their rights).

 

Oh, there is, but the involved parties need to make death feel serious and somewhat immersive. And that's a fuckton of effort I'm talking about, here, most people do not fear death OOCly, so it often rubs off in IC.

Unfortunately, there is no way to roleplay as a corpse.

It's really easy to get jaded off of people dying in this roleplay setting because from both an IC and OOC perspective... it happens so goddamn much, you wish you had a shift where NOBODY had a weird freak accident or a brush with death. The NSS Aurora's 'Days without incident' counter will always be at zero, and it's a wonder anything gets done in spite of the legions of assistants being taken by Death himself as his personal underworld army of greys.

It truly is very difficult to take anything seriously if it happens every single round in the same way it happened the round before.

e: a word.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

I used to advocate the removal of cloning, but people succeeded in convincing me there are no ways to make death in SS13 more serious - only ways to make it more annoying.

I personally feel like the problem is that dying happens so damn much. It's got little to do with the consequences. Simply put, when assistants die in droves every shift, it becomes sorta hard to keep your countenance and take it all seriously. This would likely achieve little more than annoying the people who do appreciate being cloned (I won't pretend I understand them, but I also see no valid reason to take away their rights).

 

Oh, there is, but the involved parties need to make death feel serious and somewhat immersive. And that's a fuckton of effort I'm talking about, here, most people do not fear death OOCly, so it often rubs off in IC.

Unfortunately, there is no way to roleplay as a corpse.

It's really easy to get jaded off of people dying in this roleplay setting because from both an IC and OOC perspective... it happens so goddamn much, you wish you had a shift where NOBODY had a weird freak accident or a brush with death. The NSS Aurora's 'Days without incident' counter will always be at zero, and it's a wonder anything gets done in spite of the legions of assistants being taken by Death himself as his personal underworld army of greys.

It truly is very difficult to take anything seriously if it happens every single round in the same way it happened the round before.

e: a word.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Guest

[Frances]

Death can definitely be serious if people put the effort into it. I simply don't think it's the "default" stance, if that makes any sense. You sorta need to will it, and at that point gameplay assists won't really matter.

[Frances]

Death can definitely be serious if people put the effort into it. I simply don't think it's the "default" stance, if that makes any sense. You sorta need to will it, and at that point gameplay assists won't really matter.

[GhostInSpace]

It's not a bad idea in theory, but it does raise some concerns for me. Specifically two:

 

This is a pretty simple idea. Only important people who would have cloning in their Nanotrasen healthcare plan should be cloned. This means Heads of Staff, Security, Engineers, and Scientists would be candidates for cloning. Civilians like Bartenders, Assistants, Cargo Techs, etc. would not. It makes sense that a large mega corporation like Nanotrasen would undercut employees like this

 

The way that cloning works in the game, and I have to assume within the setting of the game itself, in order to make a near perfect genetic copy of a sentient biological individual, it requires little more than some high-tech equipment, someone who's been trained to operate the equipment, and roughly ten minutes of time. If we're going to do away with cloning for non-essential roles, we might as well do away with in-game cloning all together.

In the year 2457, the process seems to have been gotten down to roughly an exact science (psychological effects not withstanding), so I don't see why N.T. wouldn't offer it to all their employees as a "perk" of the job. "And, as part of your employment contract, if for any reason you die while working at any N.T. approved facility or operation, we will ensure you are cloned at no cost to yourself. What? No, you don't need to ask why this is part of the contract."

 

and it also encourages people to not be as liberal with their lives or with killing people unless absolutely necessary.

 

Well, it might encourage people not to be as liberal with their lives, but I certainly doubt it will encourage most people to be less liberal with killing people. A person knowing OOC that a player's character may be permanently removed from the game is just as likely to make them more murderous than less murderous, especially if you take into account the numerous ways people can hold dislike for each others' characters.

[GhostInSpace]

It's not a bad idea in theory, but it does raise some concerns for me. Specifically two:

 

This is a pretty simple idea. Only important people who would have cloning in their Nanotrasen healthcare plan should be cloned. This means Heads of Staff, Security, Engineers, and Scientists would be candidates for cloning. Civilians like Bartenders, Assistants, Cargo Techs, etc. would not. It makes sense that a large mega corporation like Nanotrasen would undercut employees like this

 

The way that cloning works in the game, and I have to assume within the setting of the game itself, in order to make a near perfect genetic copy of a sentient biological individual, it requires little more than some high-tech equipment, someone who's been trained to operate the equipment, and roughly ten minutes of time. If we're going to do away with cloning for non-essential roles, we might as well do away with in-game cloning all together.

In the year 2457, the process seems to have been gotten down to roughly an exact science (psychological effects not withstanding), so I don't see why N.T. wouldn't offer it to all their employees as a "perk" of the job. "And, as part of your employment contract, if for any reason you die while working at any N.T. approved facility or operation, we will ensure you are cloned at no cost to yourself. What? No, you don't need to ask why this is part of the contract."

 

and it also encourages people to not be as liberal with their lives or with killing people unless absolutely necessary.

 

Well, it might encourage people not to be as liberal with their lives, but I certainly doubt it will encourage most people to be less liberal with killing people. A person knowing OOC that a player's character may be permanently removed from the game is just as likely to make them more murderous than less murderous, especially if you take into account the numerous ways people can hold dislike for each others' characters.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

As much as I don't like how casually many players take death, I also don't think this would help much. Further, it doesn't seem to match with my understanding of the IC costs associated with cloning. What could achieve a similar effect while making sense ICly is to considerably increase the time it takes to make a clone and instruct medical staff to prioritize cloning based on rank and utility.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

As much as I don't like how casually many players take death, I also don't think this would help much. Further, it doesn't seem to match with my understanding of the IC costs associated with cloning. What could achieve a similar effect while making sense ICly is to considerably increase the time it takes to make a clone and instruct medical staff to prioritize cloning based on rank and utility.

[Xelnagahunter]

I seem to fall into agreement with the stance that removing cloning from a small subject of people won't change the way things are handled in any positive manner and might actually be a negative thing. The key point here being that the suggestion is to remove it from a small grouping. First of all, medical isn't mentioned, which is a field that should make enough money for insurance to cover cloning. So you litterally just removed 1/5th of the playerbase from cloning. That's it. 5 our of 25 people can't be cloned. Makes no sense to reduce those numbers so minimally. Now, making only Heads cloneable makes more sense in that manner, as someone said. It makes the maximum of cloneable people per round 6, regardless of how full the server is. This even comes with a cost of reducing the Genetics to the rare cloning and a job nobody likes to see done for some reason. All in all I agree with the idea that NT would put complementary cloning in the contract, even if its just for study related reasons. People can also deny being cloned. "Do Not Clone" is possible to be written into your medical, security, and employment records.

[Xelnagahunter]

I seem to fall into agreement with the stance that removing cloning from a small subject of people won't change the way things are handled in any positive manner and might actually be a negative thing. The key point here being that the suggestion is to remove it from a small grouping. First of all, medical isn't mentioned, which is a field that should make enough money for insurance to cover cloning. So you litterally just removed 1/5th of the playerbase from cloning. That's it. 5 our of 25 people can't be cloned. Makes no sense to reduce those numbers so minimally. Now, making only Heads cloneable makes more sense in that manner, as someone said. It makes the maximum of cloneable people per round 6, regardless of how full the server is. This even comes with a cost of reducing the Genetics to the rare cloning and a job nobody likes to see done for some reason. All in all I agree with the idea that NT would put complementary cloning in the contract, even if its just for study related reasons. People can also deny being cloned. "Do Not Clone" is possible to be written into your medical, security, and employment records.

[I_speak_money]

Death is a joke in this game. Firefights, explosives, breached areas to space... no one gives a fuck. At all. It's just another little icon that pops up there screen and they have a X amount of time do something about it before it becomes serious. Cloning? There are so many games that are built upon the premise of not dying. Dying should suck, real bad. If it incapacitates you from the round for thirty minutes, then so be it. People are always talking about roleplaying fear.. roleplaying anxiety. No, those should be real. You should fear for the life of your character when you hear shells drop and bullets fly. Make it as inconvenient as possible. Dark Souls style. Make it a pain in the ass to die. +1 on the healthcare.

 

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Another thing while we're on the topic of healthcare, permanent damage. There's none of it, unless you're considering amputations, and even then, you can get those replaced. When you survive from a firefight, you should be fucked up. Physically. Mentally. You shouldn't be able to limp to Medical, be pumped with chemicals, and then strap your helmet on for round two. In my opinion, medical is waaaaay too easy. Way to easy for the doctors. Way to easy for the patients. See previous points. Injuries.. death.. maiming.. it should be a pain in the ass.

[I_speak_money]

Death is a joke in this game. Firefights, explosives, breached areas to space... no one gives a fuck. At all. It's just another little icon that pops up there screen and they have a X amount of time do something about it before it becomes serious. Cloning? There are so many games that are built upon the premise of not dying. Dying should suck, real bad. If it incapacitates you from the round for thirty minutes, then so be it. People are always talking about roleplaying fear.. roleplaying anxiety. No, those should be real. You should fear for the life of your character when you hear shells drop and bullets fly. Make it as inconvenient as possible. Dark Souls style. Make it a pain in the ass to die. +1 on the healthcare.

 

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Another thing while we're on the topic of healthcare, permanent damage. There's none of it, unless you're considering amputations, and even then, you can get those replaced. When you survive from a firefight, you should be fucked up. Physically. Mentally. You shouldn't be able to limp to Medical, be pumped with chemicals, and then strap your helmet on for round two. In my opinion, medical is waaaaay too easy. Way to easy for the doctors. Way to easy for the patients. See previous points. Injuries.. death.. maiming.. it should be a pain in the ass.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why not attach costs to medical care in a non-invasive way? Cloning is not going out anytime soon - we had a big debate about this already. The only thing I would want to touch is a reform of the Clone Memory Disorder which is a seperate suggestion.

I'd always thought it would be fun to have cryogenics and scanners charge the bank account of whatever ID was on the mod in the medical equipment. Every scan would cost 50 credits, cryogenics would charge 50 credits every tick. The surgery table would scan the ID when the mob was placed on it and charge 200 or so.

And if the money runs out, it buzzes and refuses service.

Lore justified in that this is all the advanced equipment being used, and the insurance already makes cloning and everything else completely free.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why not attach costs to medical care in a non-invasive way? Cloning is not going out anytime soon - we had a big debate about this already. The only thing I would want to touch is a reform of the Clone Memory Disorder which is a seperate suggestion.

I'd always thought it would be fun to have cryogenics and scanners charge the bank account of whatever ID was on the mod in the medical equipment. Every scan would cost 50 credits, cryogenics would charge 50 credits every tick. The surgery table would scan the ID when the mob was placed on it and charge 200 or so.

And if the money runs out, it buzzes and refuses service.

Lore justified in that this is all the advanced equipment being used, and the insurance already makes cloning and everything else completely free.

[Eliot Clef]

Making cloning more difficult: Nooooooo, for reasons already long discussed to death.

Making medical equipment charge people: Nooooooo, for very similar reasons. Worse, you'd legitimize the, 'Fuck it, just let them die and clone them, it'll be easier.' attitude that some people still somehow manage to have.

[Eliot Clef]

Making cloning more difficult: Nooooooo, for reasons already long discussed to death.

Making medical equipment charge people: Nooooooo, for very similar reasons. Worse, you'd legitimize the, 'Fuck it, just let them die and clone them, it'll be easier.' attitude that some people still somehow manage to have.

[Alberyk]

What Sue said once in a discussion(http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2463) about the nearly same thing;

 

This game is literally designed with tons of cheap instant death mechanics solely because cloning exists. There is a symbiotic relationship. It's so easy to die because it's easy to come back.

And you just want to remove one part of that equation.

No.

[Alberyk]

What Sue said once in a discussion(http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2463) about the nearly same thing;

 

This game is literally designed with tons of cheap instant death mechanics solely because cloning exists. There is a symbiotic relationship. It's so easy to die because it's easy to come back.

And you just want to remove one part of that equation.

No.

[Aetherscald]

See, everyone is treating this like i'm saying "Let's get rid of cloning because muh realism and shitters ruin the game."

I'm literally suggesting limiting who has access to cloning. A scientist would have access to cloning healthcare because they are IMPORTANT to Nanotrasen's goals. An engineer would have healthcare because their job is hazardous and needed to keep the platform, for which Nanotrasen's goals may continue to be explored, afloat. A Librarian is NOT important enough to be cloned because we all know why. This is a very simple idea i'm putting forth and it's being treated as straight up removal of a mechanic which I very much agree is integral to the overall game.

This suggestion is exemplifying the fact that there's no way in hell a corporation like Nanotrasen, which is set up as very corrupt and vicious, would give every assistant, every chef, every friggin botanist cloning and healthcare that lets them shuffle into this mortal coil time and time again.

This suggestion was made to appeal to the Heavy RP sensibilities of the Aurora server. And I feel like it'd never really be true heavy roleplay if some greyshirt climbs into disposals and comes back because everyone miraculously has the same healthcare plan.

Besides, respawn is a feature, so it's not like you're out for the whole round either. Just come back as some other character you made and go from there. It could serve to make things interesting if you're committed to the round, which if you're here for Heavy RP, you should be.

Most if not all civilian jobs should have no business being exposed to the instant death mechanics that permeate the game if they're doing their job and roleplaying within their parameters. Death will likely only be the cause of an antag for these individuals. If you're a Chaplain who wants to play hero and rescue someone from a hazardous environment or situation, then you knew the risks roleplaying that way.