Managing Security Count

[Skull132]

Big scary title, I know. But the idea is simple enough.

We have 5 Security Officer slots, and 2 Security Cadet slots. For all intents and purposes, 8 out of every 10 cadets function pretty much like normal officers. So, this is a total of 7 Security Officer slots, plus 4 supporting slots, that can be potentially filled. And, depending on circumstances, this can get a little overbearing, no?

Yeah, we're a roleplay server. But we're a roleplay server which has always kept antagonists in high regards (or higher regards than some other places). If we have a stupidly stacked security team with some 30 players and 1 - 3 traitors, then we're not exactly providing the best potential for a good outcome. An even fight will prove a more enjoyable experience, no?

There are roughly two approaches for this:

2. Fixed Slots - The idea is simple, we keep the fixed number of officer slots. But, we make the two cadets count as officers, if they are used. So, you could have three possible security officer make-ups: 5 officers, 4 officers 1 cadet, 3 officers 2 cadets. However the slots are picked on the go is how it'll stay.
4. Dynamic Slots - A bit of a more complex idea. But, in basic terms, the amount of officers and cadets changes, dependent on how many people are active. I don't have ballparks as to where the counts would go, and how they'd change, but that can be figured out if the idea is vetted as good.
   
6. Remove Cadets - Easy as that. Accomplishes the objective with a similar outcome to the first idea.

 

A similar idea (at least, the fixed slots one), could perhaps be implemented with MDs and EMTs as well. There have been a few cases where I've seen everyone in medical stumble over one another due to oversaturation, but that application is for discussion at another time. We'll start with security.

So, thoughts, ideas?

Edited September 13, 2015 by Guest

[Skull132]

Big scary title, I know. But the idea is simple enough.

We have 5 Security Officer slots, and 2 Security Cadet slots. For all intents and purposes, 8 out of every 10 cadets function pretty much like normal officers. So, this is a total of 7 Security Officer slots, plus 4 supporting slots, that can be potentially filled. And, depending on circumstances, this can get a little overbearing, no?

Yeah, we're a roleplay server. But we're a roleplay server which has always kept antagonists in high regards (or higher regards than some other places). If we have a stupidly stacked security team with some 30 players and 1 - 3 traitors, then we're not exactly providing the best potential for a good outcome. An even fight will prove a more enjoyable experience, no?

There are roughly two approaches for this:

2. Fixed Slots - The idea is simple, we keep the fixed number of officer slots. But, we make the two cadets count as officers, if they are used. So, you could have three possible security officer make-ups: 5 officers, 4 officers 1 cadet, 3 officers 2 cadets. However the slots are picked on the go is how it'll stay.
4. Dynamic Slots - A bit of a more complex idea. But, in basic terms, the amount of officers and cadets changes, dependent on how many people are active. I don't have ballparks as to where the counts would go, and how they'd change, but that can be figured out if the idea is vetted as good.
   
6. Remove Cadets - Easy as that. Accomplishes the objective with a similar outcome to the first idea.

 

A similar idea (at least, the fixed slots one), could perhaps be implemented with MDs and EMTs as well. There have been a few cases where I've seen everyone in medical stumble over one another due to oversaturation, but that application is for discussion at another time. We'll start with security.

So, thoughts, ideas?

Edited September 13, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

I like the dynamic slots idea. It regulates security slots to a proportional equivalent to the rest of the crew to keep the department balanced enough for petty criminals, antagonists, and overall it makes managing big teams with a small crew less of a fucking headache.

It's perfect, really, and can do no harm if implemented.

[Guest]

I like the dynamic slots idea. It regulates security slots to a proportional equivalent to the rest of the crew to keep the department balanced enough for petty criminals, antagonists, and overall it makes managing big teams with a small crew less of a fucking headache.

It's perfect, really, and can do no harm if implemented.

[Susan]

I counter.

Remove cadets entirely.

You go to the academy to learn; that's when you're a cadet. A police cadet doesn't get sent to a department and work there. If you don't pass the academy, you don't get in at all.

Essentially, being a cadet means you're in school to become an officer, and start active service when you get promoted.

[Susan]

I counter.

Remove cadets entirely.

You go to the academy to learn; that's when you're a cadet. A police cadet doesn't get sent to a department and work there. If you don't pass the academy, you don't get in at all.

Essentially, being a cadet means you're in school to become an officer, and start active service when you get promoted.

[Skull132]

As it stands, cadets serve the purpose of being the field security slot that you can play while you wait for your 7 day whitelist req to tick full. I suppose a better analogy would be a probationary officer. But that's a technicality, which doesn't really matter.

[Skull132]

As it stands, cadets serve the purpose of being the field security slot that you can play while you wait for your 7 day whitelist req to tick full. I suppose a better analogy would be a probationary officer. But that's a technicality, which doesn't really matter.

[jackfractal]

I'd include the Head of Security, Warden, and CSI in that list. There have been days where, on slow rounds, half the station is part of security to one degree or another.

Regarding cadets, I always thought they were supposed to be on work-study programs and still going to school.

[jackfractal]

I'd include the Head of Security, Warden, and CSI in that list. There have been days where, on slow rounds, half the station is part of security to one degree or another.

Regarding cadets, I always thought they were supposed to be on work-study programs and still going to school.

[Skull132]

I'd include the Head of Security, Warden, and CSI in that list. There have been days where, on slow rounds, half the station is part of security to one degree or another.

 

Issue. That would become slightly too constricting for security. 6 personnel in total, which is what you are alluding towards, would probably nix security a little too much, specially when you have 30+ active crew, don't you think? Plus, they'd all be spread out over separate areas of operation, making the whole department less functional. Mind you, this is if we're talking about the first mode proposed.

With the second mode, it may be possible to toggle some slots available on conditions.

[Skull132]

I'd include the Head of Security, Warden, and CSI in that list. There have been days where, on slow rounds, half the station is part of security to one degree or another.

 

Issue. That would become slightly too constricting for security. 6 personnel in total, which is what you are alluding towards, would probably nix security a little too much, specially when you have 30+ active crew, don't you think? Plus, they'd all be spread out over separate areas of operation, making the whole department less functional. Mind you, this is if we're talking about the first mode proposed.

With the second mode, it may be possible to toggle some slots available on conditions.

[Garnascus]

I would 100% go for a dynamic system even if it would be more difficult. Its frustrating when people vote for nuke ops/malf AI/ or even cult and the largest department on the station is almost always security.

[Garnascus]

I would 100% go for a dynamic system even if it would be more difficult. Its frustrating when people vote for nuke ops/malf AI/ or even cult and the largest department on the station is almost always security.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I support cadets. They provide actual training for players that are waiting for a whitelist or a character that doesn't have the qualifications. Having a role that mechanically screams "I'm a newbie be gentle" is only a positive. If someone wants a transfer to security but they have no records, I can make them a cadet in order to prove their competency in a lessor risk than just making them an officer with all the access.

But yes, a lot of times they are just renamed security officers. Why people ever give cadets lethal weapons or stunbatons, idk.

Anyway I like the dynamic slots idea. Like it or not, HRP or not, the very nature of the game is centered around security. Especially with how much power security has on HRP servers; the slots will always be filled outside deadhour. It's better to make it dynamic to the population than just institute hard caps.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I support cadets. They provide actual training for players that are waiting for a whitelist or a character that doesn't have the qualifications. Having a role that mechanically screams "I'm a newbie be gentle" is only a positive. If someone wants a transfer to security but they have no records, I can make them a cadet in order to prove their competency in a lessor risk than just making them an officer with all the access.

But yes, a lot of times they are just renamed security officers. Why people ever give cadets lethal weapons or stunbatons, idk.

Anyway I like the dynamic slots idea. Like it or not, HRP or not, the very nature of the game is centered around security. Especially with how much power security has on HRP servers; the slots will always be filled outside deadhour. It's better to make it dynamic to the population than just institute hard caps.

[jackfractal]

Ah, yes Skull. I meant that any count we created should include the whole department, not just officers and cadets. Six total is definitely too low as a permanent cap.

[jackfractal]

Ah, yes Skull. I meant that any count we created should include the whole department, not just officers and cadets. Six total is definitely too low as a permanent cap.

[JKJudgeX]

There's also a HUGE problem IMO of security stacking when the roundtype is known.

On Extended, you're lucky to see 3-5 security characters playing.

However, when nuclear wins that vote, SUDDENLY, security is overflowing, 3 times the size of ANY other department.

Cult won by vote one time and there were 9. NINE. NIIIIINE members of security within the first 5 minutes of play. Just about half of the non-cult starting station was security/Head/Borg. This resulted in us having to play super-secret quiet bore-cult, or just get insta-crushed, really. There wasn't much unobserved screenspace. I consider it power/meta-gamey to grab your security character as soon as you find out it's nuclear or cult.

For this, I highly recommend throttling the security positions available, or alternatively, just making it so we never know the round-type. Either an admin can set it, or we can vote between secret and extended only. Also, secret should exclude extended.

I think it's important to remember that when there are a LOT of players with security, you're going to have a higher chance of one or two of them being shitcurity, and shitcurity being poorly RP'ed by even just one or two players is enough to blow an entire otherwise well-played round. There's a critical mass, and I'm not sure what it is, but I'm gonna say 5 security officers/cadets and above starts to get pretty power-gamey.

[JKJudgeX]

There's also a HUGE problem IMO of security stacking when the roundtype is known.

On Extended, you're lucky to see 3-5 security characters playing.

However, when nuclear wins that vote, SUDDENLY, security is overflowing, 3 times the size of ANY other department.

Cult won by vote one time and there were 9. NINE. NIIIIINE members of security within the first 5 minutes of play. Just about half of the non-cult starting station was security/Head/Borg. This resulted in us having to play super-secret quiet bore-cult, or just get insta-crushed, really. There wasn't much unobserved screenspace. I consider it power/meta-gamey to grab your security character as soon as you find out it's nuclear or cult.

For this, I highly recommend throttling the security positions available, or alternatively, just making it so we never know the round-type. Either an admin can set it, or we can vote between secret and extended only. Also, secret should exclude extended.

I think it's important to remember that when there are a LOT of players with security, you're going to have a higher chance of one or two of them being shitcurity, and shitcurity being poorly RP'ed by even just one or two players is enough to blow an entire otherwise well-played round. There's a critical mass, and I'm not sure what it is, but I'm gonna say 5 security officers/cadets and above starts to get pretty power-gamey.