How are IPC's OP?

[Xelnagahunter]

The big thing here is context of the IPC character and a player's willingness to stick to an HRP environment. I was the RD as Qwerty a day or two ago and durring a ling round I was abmushed. He got into my office, grew blades, and started being threatening. I didn't fight as Qwerty is not a combatant. His programing was not violent and his experiences have not taught him to fight. He did, remain calm and inform command staff while tossing his PDA and ID smoothly into disposals to try and prevent the ling from escaping. The result was Qwerty's legs being removed while the ling used disposals to escape, leading to his capture with the awaiting sec officers who were recovering my ID. Those combat perks are really only viable for IPCs in combat positions, otherwise they should be avoiding the conflict.

[Xelnagahunter]

The big thing here is context of the IPC character and a player's willingness to stick to an HRP environment. I was the RD as Qwerty a day or two ago and durring a ling round I was abmushed. He got into my office, grew blades, and started being threatening. I didn't fight as Qwerty is not a combatant. His programing was not violent and his experiences have not taught him to fight. He did, remain calm and inform command staff while tossing his PDA and ID smoothly into disposals to try and prevent the ling from escaping. The result was Qwerty's legs being removed while the ling used disposals to escape, leading to his capture with the awaiting sec officers who were recovering my ID. Those combat perks are really only viable for IPCs in combat positions, otherwise they should be avoiding the conflict.

[Frances]

The big thing here is context of the IPC character and a player's willingness to stick to an HRP environment. I was the RD as Qwerty a day or two ago and durring a ling round I was abmushed. He got into my office, grew blades, and started being threatening. I didn't fight as Qwerty is not a combatant. His programing was not violent and his experiences have not taught him to fight. He did, remain calm and inform command staff while tossing his PDA and ID smoothly into disposals to try and prevent the ling from escaping. The result was Qwerty's legs being removed while the ling used disposals to escape, leading to his capture with the awaiting sec officers who were recovering my ID. Those combat perks are really only viable for IPCs in combat positions, otherwise they should be avoiding the conflict.

That's actually something else to note, I guess? I dunno. But I feel like IPCs being possibly exempt from fearRP/self-preservation if they so wish (mostly in heroic cases) should be counted as another advantage.

I get that IPCs should consider their chassis expensive and all that, but in cases of extreme threat to the station they will be a lot more willing to sacrifice themselves and play hero to save living beings. It's not a /gameplay/ advantage but I think it should be considered when balancing the race. (And you can say that not all IPCs are like that but what matters is that more than a few will be.)

[Frances]

The big thing here is context of the IPC character and a player's willingness to stick to an HRP environment. I was the RD as Qwerty a day or two ago and durring a ling round I was abmushed. He got into my office, grew blades, and started being threatening. I didn't fight as Qwerty is not a combatant. His programing was not violent and his experiences have not taught him to fight. He did, remain calm and inform command staff while tossing his PDA and ID smoothly into disposals to try and prevent the ling from escaping. The result was Qwerty's legs being removed while the ling used disposals to escape, leading to his capture with the awaiting sec officers who were recovering my ID. Those combat perks are really only viable for IPCs in combat positions, otherwise they should be avoiding the conflict.

That's actually something else to note, I guess? I dunno. But I feel like IPCs being possibly exempt from fearRP/self-preservation if they so wish (mostly in heroic cases) should be counted as another advantage.

I get that IPCs should consider their chassis expensive and all that, but in cases of extreme threat to the station they will be a lot more willing to sacrifice themselves and play hero to save living beings. It's not a /gameplay/ advantage but I think it should be considered when balancing the race. (And you can say that not all IPCs are like that but what matters is that more than a few will be.)

[SierraKomodo]

The main thing that makes them OP to me:

The only way to stop an IPC at range is to use lethals. Non lethals, only a stun baton or pushing works, and that relies on you being able to click properly and not get robusted by said IPC (Which I fail at 99% of the time)

[SierraKomodo]

The main thing that makes them OP to me:

The only way to stop an IPC at range is to use lethals. Non lethals, only a stun baton or pushing works, and that relies on you being able to click properly and not get robusted by said IPC (Which I fail at 99% of the time)

[Reyjakai]

Why not make IPCs overload like the station androids with flashes, then? There's really no reason for that mechanic to exist. I can understand that they can weld without having goggles on, and having immunity to being tased is an advantage on its own. As for taking on IPCs ranged, lethals /do/ work quite well on IPCs due to their limbs being incredibly easy to blow off with lasers. Two shots with a laser pistol will take off a limb (The ones the Captain/HoP/HoS have) and render an IPC completely immobile. I saw it happen when the HoP had to fire Deimos and Phobos IC. This obviously is not the ideal situation, and should be looked at.

As for them having brute resistance, I'm assuming that's mainly due to their limbs not breaking, but instead completely being removed in any situation. If you're an IPC, you know that depressurization is pretty much a death sentence unless you're really damn lucky. Need to crowbar open that firelock? Nope, your hands spark every 3 seconds and you drop it. Overheating and get into a safe section of the station? Nope, you're probably still going to die because you take forever to cool down after you've been overheating. Took too long putting on that suit cooler in a bad situation? Too bad, you're going to die anyway and your body will turn into gibs as you slowly melt to death.

With all that in mind, I have died significantly fewer times as my IPC characters than my human characters. Half of this is because I've been playing a lot better, avoiding antags, running from dangerous situations and letting security deal with it as they see fit, and half of it is that my IPC is /just a little more sturdy/ than their human counterpart. On the flipside, I've been oneshot by wizards more than once, same with nuke ops. The race has a lot more strengths than other races, but they also have some pretty extreme weaknesses compared to other species.

[Reyjakai]

Why not make IPCs overload like the station androids with flashes, then? There's really no reason for that mechanic to exist. I can understand that they can weld without having goggles on, and having immunity to being tased is an advantage on its own. As for taking on IPCs ranged, lethals /do/ work quite well on IPCs due to their limbs being incredibly easy to blow off with lasers. Two shots with a laser pistol will take off a limb (The ones the Captain/HoP/HoS have) and render an IPC completely immobile. I saw it happen when the HoP had to fire Deimos and Phobos IC. This obviously is not the ideal situation, and should be looked at.

As for them having brute resistance, I'm assuming that's mainly due to their limbs not breaking, but instead completely being removed in any situation. If you're an IPC, you know that depressurization is pretty much a death sentence unless you're really damn lucky. Need to crowbar open that firelock? Nope, your hands spark every 3 seconds and you drop it. Overheating and get into a safe section of the station? Nope, you're probably still going to die because you take forever to cool down after you've been overheating. Took too long putting on that suit cooler in a bad situation? Too bad, you're going to die anyway and your body will turn into gibs as you slowly melt to death.

With all that in mind, I have died significantly fewer times as my IPC characters than my human characters. Half of this is because I've been playing a lot better, avoiding antags, running from dangerous situations and letting security deal with it as they see fit, and half of it is that my IPC is /just a little more sturdy/ than their human counterpart. On the flipside, I've been oneshot by wizards more than once, same with nuke ops. The race has a lot more strengths than other races, but they also have some pretty extreme weaknesses compared to other species.

[jackfractal]

I'd say, make 'em vulnerable to disablers and make 'em vulnerable to flashes. They could keep their poison and gas immunities (which includes pepper spray) but they shouldn't be exempt from standard weaponry.

I'd also dial down their EMP response, make it so that a single blast doesn't instantly murder then, just hurts them and knocks them out, and that it degrades in effectiveness more quickly then it does in cases of splash damage.

[jackfractal]

I'd say, make 'em vulnerable to disablers and make 'em vulnerable to flashes. They could keep their poison and gas immunities (which includes pepper spray) but they shouldn't be exempt from standard weaponry.

I'd also dial down their EMP response, make it so that a single blast doesn't instantly murder then, just hurts them and knocks them out, and that it degrades in effectiveness more quickly then it does in cases of splash damage.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The flash immunity was always weird. Changing that single thing would open them up to be nonlethally stunned, and thus countered, by... Well, anyone. Flashes are super easy to be acquired despite the superiority of pepperspray. Like it's my firm belief that only changing that will make IPC's much more vulnerable.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The flash immunity was always weird. Changing that single thing would open them up to be nonlethally stunned, and thus countered, by... Well, anyone. Flashes are super easy to be acquired despite the superiority of pepperspray. Like it's my firm belief that only changing that will make IPC's much more vulnerable.

[JKJudgeX]

Let's just simplify it like this:

Antagonists that IPCs have an advantage against:

Vampires (no charms, no screech, no bites, no diseases, etc).

Changeling (No stings of any sort, no DNA to steal or eat or use as subterfuge, etc)

Cult (Immune to most runes, conversion)

Cortical Borer: Immune

Aliums: That brute damage is especially handy here, can't be impregnated.

Malf AI: Not under command, can't be vented, can't be flashed

Traitor: Virtually no stealth methods of takedown work, 1 vulnerability here: crypto sequencer (if it even works on Aurora this way).

All others: That half brute damage thing is ludicrous, no flashing, no poisoning, no syringes, no suffocation, no knockout gas, no epipen, no DNA injector damage

and so on... and so on... and with the shells, you don't even know it's an IPC until it's way too late.

Now...

Antagonists that Humans have an advantage against:

None. Everything works on humans except for EMPs.

So then, omg we have "weaknesses" because EMP weapons! - no, you have a "vulnerability", like a werewolf or a vampire, but one that's even harder to obtain than the things you need to kill those usually.

So how is this fixed?

Some good suggestions already exist in this thread, getting rid of the brute damage thing would be good, but I think ultimately this SHOULD have been handled with EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHITELISTING. That's Long, LONG gone, as I've seen 4 IPCs in security/command in 1 shift, when with this power level it should be more like 1 or 2 IPCs on the whole station.

Slow them down. Bump up their move speed coefficient in the game_options.txt.

Alternatively, you could give each antag a given, starting special ability or free item (or enough telecrystals to purchase one more item) specifically for dealing with IPCs. A vampire might have a gaze that overloads an IPC and incapacitates it for a while, a changeling might have a mutation that allows him to drain all of the energy out of an IPC's battery, a handgun could be made that fires EMP bolts that a traitor could buy...

Also, alternatively, they could be role-restricted right the hell out of security, which is exactly where their overpowered abilities usually land them, and put them directly against the antagonists they are seemingly meta-OP-designed to valid-hunt.

But ultimately my primary suggestion would be to completely remove them from the game. No joke. Or redo everyone's whitelists and make it so that being whitelisted for IPC blacklists you from Command AND Security.

[JKJudgeX]

Let's just simplify it like this:

Antagonists that IPCs have an advantage against:

Vampires (no charms, no screech, no bites, no diseases, etc).

Changeling (No stings of any sort, no DNA to steal or eat or use as subterfuge, etc)

Cult (Immune to most runes, conversion)

Cortical Borer: Immune

Aliums: That brute damage is especially handy here, can't be impregnated.

Malf AI: Not under command, can't be vented, can't be flashed

Traitor: Virtually no stealth methods of takedown work, 1 vulnerability here: crypto sequencer (if it even works on Aurora this way).

All others: That half brute damage thing is ludicrous, no flashing, no poisoning, no syringes, no suffocation, no knockout gas, no epipen, no DNA injector damage

and so on... and so on... and with the shells, you don't even know it's an IPC until it's way too late.

Now...

Antagonists that Humans have an advantage against:

None. Everything works on humans except for EMPs.

So then, omg we have "weaknesses" because EMP weapons! - no, you have a "vulnerability", like a werewolf or a vampire, but one that's even harder to obtain than the things you need to kill those usually.

So how is this fixed?

Some good suggestions already exist in this thread, getting rid of the brute damage thing would be good, but I think ultimately this SHOULD have been handled with EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHITELISTING. That's Long, LONG gone, as I've seen 4 IPCs in security/command in 1 shift, when with this power level it should be more like 1 or 2 IPCs on the whole station.

Slow them down. Bump up their move speed coefficient in the game_options.txt.

Alternatively, you could give each antag a given, starting special ability or free item (or enough telecrystals to purchase one more item) specifically for dealing with IPCs. A vampire might have a gaze that overloads an IPC and incapacitates it for a while, a changeling might have a mutation that allows him to drain all of the energy out of an IPC's battery, a handgun could be made that fires EMP bolts that a traitor could buy...

Also, alternatively, they could be role-restricted right the hell out of security, which is exactly where their overpowered abilities usually land them, and put them directly against the antagonists they are seemingly meta-OP-designed to valid-hunt.

But ultimately my primary suggestion would be to completely remove them from the game. No joke. Or redo everyone's whitelists and make it so that being whitelisted for IPC blacklists you from Command AND Security.

[Alberyk]

The vampire's stun skills works against the ipcs. Ipcs can be converted and pretty sure that all runes affect them, cult can also have access to the emp rune and blood boil still damage them. Under the actual code, ipcs can be facehugged by xenomorphs and gibbed. Emag just damage the limb you are aiming at, don't do anything else to them. But, yes, as traitor you have few tools to deal with them, besides emp or the stun prod.

[Alberyk]

The vampire's stun skills works against the ipcs. Ipcs can be converted and pretty sure that all runes affect them, cult can also have access to the emp rune and blood boil still damage them. Under the actual code, ipcs can be facehugged by xenomorphs and gibbed. Emag just damage the limb you are aiming at, don't do anything else to them. But, yes, as traitor you have few tools to deal with them, besides emp or the stun prod.

[Eliot Clef]

But ultimately my primary suggestion would be to completely remove them from the game. No joke. Or redo everyone's whitelists and make it so that being whitelisted for IPC blacklists you from Command AND Security.

 

Cat's pretty much out of the bag on this one. There are a bunch of IPCs in Security because a lot of us got our start playing Security Cyborgs and eventually decided we wanted to play unslaved synthetics. It didn't have anything to do with them being OP, it had everything to do with us playing beep boop robots and both wanting and having the opportunity to take it farther. You'd be getting rid of some of the best people on the IPC whitelist if you denied them these roles, and the overall solutions you present strike mas a pretty spiteful.

I've been one of the people in this thread who pointed out that IPCs, in light of relatively recent changes, do have a bit too much in the way of resistance to being messed up. Especially now that Robotics can reassemble them, same as a human can be cloned.

While my contribution to this discussion is biased in the positive direction, I think yours is more so in a negative one, as your rant is ultimately heavily influenced from being cornered and apprehended by an IPC before you could pull out a revolver and blast him to bits. And I guess, maybe other instances of having a real hard time dealing with IPCs?

I don't think it's unreasonable that maybe different race types require different approaches, and I don't think it's unreasonable that a Psychiatrist maybe doesn't have the gear to silently take down a robot when he gets cornered by one.

[Eliot Clef]

But ultimately my primary suggestion would be to completely remove them from the game. No joke. Or redo everyone's whitelists and make it so that being whitelisted for IPC blacklists you from Command AND Security.

 

Cat's pretty much out of the bag on this one. There are a bunch of IPCs in Security because a lot of us got our start playing Security Cyborgs and eventually decided we wanted to play unslaved synthetics. It didn't have anything to do with them being OP, it had everything to do with us playing beep boop robots and both wanting and having the opportunity to take it farther. You'd be getting rid of some of the best people on the IPC whitelist if you denied them these roles, and the overall solutions you present strike mas a pretty spiteful.

I've been one of the people in this thread who pointed out that IPCs, in light of relatively recent changes, do have a bit too much in the way of resistance to being messed up. Especially now that Robotics can reassemble them, same as a human can be cloned.

While my contribution to this discussion is biased in the positive direction, I think yours is more so in a negative one, as your rant is ultimately heavily influenced from being cornered and apprehended by an IPC before you could pull out a revolver and blast him to bits. And I guess, maybe other instances of having a real hard time dealing with IPCs?

I don't think it's unreasonable that maybe different race types require different approaches, and I don't think it's unreasonable that a Psychiatrist maybe doesn't have the gear to silently take down a robot when he gets cornered by one.

[jackfractal]

What a white-list does is it prevents people who aren't capable of playing a role properly from playing that role. In the case of Shells, that's fairly easy, as their lore is purposefully vague.

The problem you've identified JX isn't that people are playing them wrong, it's that too many people are playing them for your tastes. What you need for that problem isn't a white-list, it's a quota.

"You cannot join as Urist McRobot this round because there are already too many shells on the station. You must choose another character."

"You cannot join as Pretty McKitty this round because there are already too many tajaran on the station. You must choose another character."

That's not something I see going over very well.

[jackfractal]

What a white-list does is it prevents people who aren't capable of playing a role properly from playing that role. In the case of Shells, that's fairly easy, as their lore is purposefully vague.

The problem you've identified JX isn't that people are playing them wrong, it's that too many people are playing them for your tastes. What you need for that problem isn't a white-list, it's a quota.

"You cannot join as Urist McRobot this round because there are already too many shells on the station. You must choose another character."

"You cannot join as Pretty McKitty this round because there are already too many tajaran on the station. You must choose another character."

That's not something I see going over very well.

[JKJudgeX]

But ultimately my primary suggestion would be to completely remove them from the game. No joke. Or redo everyone's whitelists and make it so that being whitelisted for IPC blacklists you from Command AND Security.

 

Cat's pretty much out of the bag on this one. There are a bunch of IPCs in Security because a lot of us got our start playing Security Cyborgs and eventually decided we wanted to play unslaved synthetics. It didn't have anything to do with them being OP, it had everything to do with us playing beep boop robots and both wanting and having the opportunity to take it farther. You'd be getting rid of some of the best people on the IPC whitelist if you denied them these roles, and the overall solutions you present strike mas a pretty spiteful.

I've been one of the people in this thread who pointed out that IPCs, in light of relatively recent changes, do have a bit too much in the way of resistance to being messed up. Especially now that Robotics can reassemble them, same as a human can be cloned.

While my contribution to this discussion is biased in the positive direction, I think yours is more so in a negative one, as your rant is ultimately heavily influenced from being cornered and apprehended by an IPC before you could pull out a revolver and blast him to bits. And I guess, maybe other instances of having a real hard time dealing with IPCs?

I don't think it's unreasonable that maybe different race types require different approaches, and I don't think it's unreasonable that a Psychiatrist maybe doesn't have the gear to silently take down a robot when he gets cornered by one.

 

It's more than being miffed at being busted by several times in a row with no recourse, or, not having the best access to everything and having the only targets available be IPCs that I can't quietly dispatch without major planning... It's also that they are clearly better at most jobs around the station, too.

It's just an overpowered, overplayed, powergamey, valid-hunter's dream of a race, put into the code by someone who really, really likes robots and androids. I don't mind that they are there. I mind that they are there as security and command.

They require extra robustness and special consideration to overcome, and we are playing a game where we frequently must overcome one another.

My solutions aren't "spiteful", and I wouldn't call that a rant. I just think that this is an HRP server, and that races shouldn't be made with overpowered attributes and immunities, since we're supposed to be RPing, not comparing stats... So when your stats and immunities are so out of whack, and then there are like 5 or 6 of you on board... the "game" part of our RPG suffers in quality. I only post with hopes of making that more enjoyable.

You won't find many antagonist players out there who appreciate the idea of 3 or 4 IPCs in security/command positions at the same time.

The wiki even says they shouldn't play command positions. I think that's a reasonable limitation for them. I wish it was adhered to. Again, not out of spite, but just to make the game a little more fun and equitable.

Also, for Lore reasons... as I feel they really make humans and borgs pretty much obsolete. Fully sentient, roaming, super artificial intelligence androids are pretty crazy high tech... with the shells, you're talking about Data from Star Trek, and this universe isn't that high tech. So it doesn't jive that way, either, and I find that troublesome... could someone have created one and it be as rare as the A.I. or as expensive or even more expensive? Sure, that makes for some cool stories, they are great sci-fi antagonists and protagonists... of course!... But like, 5+ of these guys on the station at once? Just saying it's a little much.

[JKJudgeX]

But ultimately my primary suggestion would be to completely remove them from the game. No joke. Or redo everyone's whitelists and make it so that being whitelisted for IPC blacklists you from Command AND Security.

 

Cat's pretty much out of the bag on this one. There are a bunch of IPCs in Security because a lot of us got our start playing Security Cyborgs and eventually decided we wanted to play unslaved synthetics. It didn't have anything to do with them being OP, it had everything to do with us playing beep boop robots and both wanting and having the opportunity to take it farther. You'd be getting rid of some of the best people on the IPC whitelist if you denied them these roles, and the overall solutions you present strike mas a pretty spiteful.

I've been one of the people in this thread who pointed out that IPCs, in light of relatively recent changes, do have a bit too much in the way of resistance to being messed up. Especially now that Robotics can reassemble them, same as a human can be cloned.

While my contribution to this discussion is biased in the positive direction, I think yours is more so in a negative one, as your rant is ultimately heavily influenced from being cornered and apprehended by an IPC before you could pull out a revolver and blast him to bits. And I guess, maybe other instances of having a real hard time dealing with IPCs?

I don't think it's unreasonable that maybe different race types require different approaches, and I don't think it's unreasonable that a Psychiatrist maybe doesn't have the gear to silently take down a robot when he gets cornered by one.

 

It's more than being miffed at being busted by several times in a row with no recourse, or, not having the best access to everything and having the only targets available be IPCs that I can't quietly dispatch without major planning... It's also that they are clearly better at most jobs around the station, too.

It's just an overpowered, overplayed, powergamey, valid-hunter's dream of a race, put into the code by someone who really, really likes robots and androids. I don't mind that they are there. I mind that they are there as security and command.

They require extra robustness and special consideration to overcome, and we are playing a game where we frequently must overcome one another.

My solutions aren't "spiteful", and I wouldn't call that a rant. I just think that this is an HRP server, and that races shouldn't be made with overpowered attributes and immunities, since we're supposed to be RPing, not comparing stats... So when your stats and immunities are so out of whack, and then there are like 5 or 6 of you on board... the "game" part of our RPG suffers in quality. I only post with hopes of making that more enjoyable.

You won't find many antagonist players out there who appreciate the idea of 3 or 4 IPCs in security/command positions at the same time.

The wiki even says they shouldn't play command positions. I think that's a reasonable limitation for them. I wish it was adhered to. Again, not out of spite, but just to make the game a little more fun and equitable.

Also, for Lore reasons... as I feel they really make humans and borgs pretty much obsolete. Fully sentient, roaming, super artificial intelligence androids are pretty crazy high tech... with the shells, you're talking about Data from Star Trek, and this universe isn't that high tech. So it doesn't jive that way, either, and I find that troublesome... could someone have created one and it be as rare as the A.I. or as expensive or even more expensive? Sure, that makes for some cool stories, they are great sci-fi antagonists and protagonists... of course!... But like, 5+ of these guys on the station at once? Just saying it's a little much.

[jackfractal]

The problem is, people like Data, and they like Major Motoko Kusanagi as well. So they'd like to play as them, or as analogues. Are you going to tell them they can't because there's already four of them on the station and five of them hurts your verisimilitude? I think they'd be well within their rights to tell you to go shove it if you tried it.

As for it not being believable within the context of the Aurora universe, that argument doesn't really work. SS13 has no consistent tech level at all. It's all over the place in terms of how effective it's technology is and how it works. Some of it is ludicrously advanced while other bits are worse then it was in the 1940's. Appeals to realism or consistency aren't particularly compelling when talking about SS13.

[jackfractal]

The problem is, people like Data, and they like Major Motoko Kusanagi as well. So they'd like to play as them, or as analogues. Are you going to tell them they can't because there's already four of them on the station and five of them hurts your verisimilitude? I think they'd be well within their rights to tell you to go shove it if you tried it.

As for it not being believable within the context of the Aurora universe, that argument doesn't really work. SS13 has no consistent tech level at all. It's all over the place in terms of how effective it's technology is and how it works. Some of it is ludicrously advanced while other bits are worse then it was in the 1940's. Appeals to realism or consistency aren't particularly compelling when talking about SS13.

[Eliot Clef]

Also, for Lore reasons... as I feel they really make humans and borgs pretty much obsolete. Fully sentient, roaming, super artificial intelligence androids are pretty crazy high tech... with the shells, you're talking about Data from Star Trek, and this universe isn't that high tech.

 

You are correct, given enough time a sufficiently intelligent population of sapient robots would make humans obsolete. This is a major problem we have with the IRL possibility of AI development, and a burgeoning truth in-universe. People are scared about robots replacing jobs that aren't merely menial labor anymore.

With regards to this universe not being that high tech, you're simply incorrect. This was made a part of Aurora's lore some small while ago now. We have full-conversion cyborgs like Motoko Kusanagi and Data-esque androids.

The Skrell had them first and discontinued production as a result of exactly the problems you're suggesting are kind of the case now. They're just waiting for the situation to blow up with humans like it did with them.

I don't disbelieve you when you say, 'I think stripping these out would be better for the game.', but I do think it's significantly self-centered based on your immediate experiences, and ultimately more detrimental to a large number of players than it is helpful.

This is normal. I'm not saying you're wrong to feel this way. I am saying that it tints your desires, just as my playing IPCs tints my desires. But my desire doesn't excise a large portion of the playerbase's favored character type to make things easier on a minority of active players (antags).

In this regard, further debate is largely pointless. You're pretty much set in your ways, and I'm set in mine.