Restrict jobs based on race.

[Jboy2000000]

Yes, this is directly because of the "Cats in Command Thread."

Since its obvious that Tajarans are going to be restricted in jobs by "lore justification," I suggest we actually try to add some fairness to this, by limiting the OTHER races as well. Here are my suggestions, based on lore.

Unathi:

No head roles.

No security roles.

No research roles.

Unathi are in the middle of a giant galactic wide terror attack, and are on the brink of war with the two greatest super powers in the universe. Unathi shouldn't be trusted in job where they're given guns, in positions of power, or handling something as important as research, on station whose purpose is research.

IPCs:

No security roles.

No medical roles.

No IAA.

No research roles.

IPC's are banned from certain head roles because it said that they can be hacked and have important information stolen, in the words of devs. If thats so, security officers, medical doctors, and IA agents all have access to file important to people's personnel and employment information, and having them in those jobs would be a risk as well. Having them work on a research station, and work on important research projects would also put Nanotrasen's highly funded research information at risk of being stolen as well.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Guest

[Eliot Clef]

Let's set aside the idea for a moment and look back on the thread you've been protesting in.

Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to feel persecuted based on mob mentality and, therefore, make an emotional plea for everyone else to be persecuted worse?

[LordFowl]

Dionaea: Every role that requires quick action/thinking. (Medical roles, security roles, engineering roles, many science roles.)

[Jboy2000000]

Let's set aside the idea for a moment and look back on the thread you've been protesting in.

Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to feel persecuted based on mob mentality and, therefore, make an emotional plea for everyone else to be persecuted worse?

 

This isn't any worse than whats being suggested in the other thread. This is suggesting we limit races based on the lore of their race, exactly what the other thread is suggesting.

 

Dionaea: Every role that requires quick action/thinking. (Medical roles, security roles, engineering roles, many science roles.)

 

I agree with most of that, but not every security role, the investigative jobs don't really need speed as a key priority, they mostly need mental power, something that Diona have in spare. Also not sure what science jobs need speed.

[Eliot Clef]

This isn't any worse than whats being suggested in the other thread. This is suggesting we limit races based on the lore of their race, exactly what the other thread is suggesting.

 

It's worse because you actively disagree with doing this, and are making this suggestion in direct response to an issue you have a clear personal stake in.

"Counter-attacking" out of what I can only guess is spite is... distasteful.

[Jboy2000000]

What I do and don't disagree with doesn't matter, its obvious that tajarans are going to be restricted, and its only fair and it only makes sense that the other races should get the same treatment. If it wasn't me that made the suggestion, it should have been someone else. This isn't out of spite, anger or whatever else, this is a suggestion because lore is being used to finally restrict jobs like so many people wanted, and I don't want to see it implemented into only one race.

[jackfractal]

Here is the list of existing restrictions, for comparison.

[Frances]

We're speaking of removing Tajarans from command roles. I don't really see how this compares to barring other species from half of the possible station departments.

Also, IPCs are about as much of a target for hacking as regular employees are a target for kidnapping and torture.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No.

[Eliot Clef]

What I do and don't disagree with doesn't matter, its obvious that tajarans are going to be restricted, and its only fair and it only makes sense that the other races should get the same treatment. If it wasn't me that made the suggestion, it should have been someone else. This isn't out of spite, anger or whatever else, this is a suggestion because lore is being used to finally restrict jobs like so many people wanted, and I don't want to see it implemented into only one race.

 

Your motivation for this suggestion is an important part of how much the suggestion should be weighed, at least in my opinion. You've made it clear that this suggestion is a direct consequence of the current discussion on Tajarans, and also that you disapprove of that discussion and regard it as wildly unfair.

You frame your suggestion as fair, but let's really take a look at what you're trying to do.

The thread in which the relevant debate is ongoing is here >> http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=3652 << Incidentally, this debate is not yet resolved, even if the most "favorable" outcome for Tajarans is effectively impossible at this point. The end result will, unquestionably, be either Tajarans having their jobs rendered more restricted re: Head roles, or possibly being stripped of Head eligibility at all.

The two winning options are:

* Tajarans require extra screening/applications to become Heads. This denies them casual entry, but allows exceptional Tajarans to still serve.

* Tajarans are stripped of Head eligibility altogether.

The effect this has is that Tajarans are denied six very specific roles, and are not locked out of any departments.

Your suggestions are as follows:

Unathi: Stripped of Head, Security, and Research roles.

This means a loss of: Warden, Detective, Forensics, Officer, IAA, Security Cadet, Scientist, Xenobiologist, Roboticist, arguably Geneticist, Head of Security, CMO, HoP, RD, CE.

Total loss: 15 jobs.

IPCs: Stripped of Security, Medical, and IAA, as well as essentially all Head roles because all Heads have access to sensitive information/records. This means loss of: Warden, Detective, Forensics, Officer, IAA, Security Cadet, Scientist, Xenobiologist, Roboticist, Doctor, EMT, Chemist, Geneticist, Psychiatrist, Research Director, CMO.

Total loss: 16 jobs.

Because Tajarans may or may not be removed from six whitelisted roles (and no departments at all), you're arguing that it would only be fair for IPCs and Unathi to be divested of not merely the roles they're most effective (and arguably, desirable) at, but half to over half of the roles in the game?

What you're proposing is hypocritical on a personal level, wildly more crippling than the decision that has not yet been made regarding Tajaran whitelist eligibility, and spiteful to boot.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Guest

[Susan]

Hi.

As Tajaran lore master,

No.

Cats will not be limited from jobs other than Command depending.

That is all.

[JKJudgeX]

I'm 100% in support of limiting IPC roles for gameplay balance AND RP reasons.

I think their lore should be changed to make them less better than all other races at everything but drinking contests and naked spacewalking.

[jackfractal]

IPC roles are already limited. They are not allowed to be Head of Security, Head of Personnel, or Captain.

[Jboy2000000]

So the general vibe Im getting from this thread is not that people are interested in limiting race for lore reasons, but basing what and what isn't restricted based on what they want?

[Zidanyia]

Ah, I remember when this discussion was brought up on Bay. Wow, people got upset.

Hm, right. Just to say as the newbie with no idea what the heck goes on here, I'll say this. Overall fun needs to trump the whole 'realism' thing. If the game isn't fun in any particular way, why play it?

Generally what would make sense is that the other races be barred from any role of responsibility, because they're quite marginalized in this day in age (I guess? I've not read the lore but from what I'm told by two or three others, it may/may not be worth reading as it perpetuates a hugbox mentality or something).

I mean, you can't trust the Unathi because they've nuked themselves several times over because of their insufferable ancestral honor complex they got going.

The Tajara aren't worth a spit-take over given their general degeneracy, thievery, rumors of smuggling and other illicit activities deemed unacceptable by the human social circles... Oh, and they violently rebelled against their monarchy and killed a lot of people. It is still in question who is the actual good guy in the conflict, from what I am told.

The Skrell are noticably better in the eyes of the human empire than the above because of their contributions to the Sol Alliance such as cloning tech and WetSkrell-- I mean, what?

Diona are meh. They're just trees, but they're good labor and are troves of valuable information. They're not harmful, which is a plus.

IPCs are also meh. They're sentient, free robots, and the free part is what scares people. At no point are you going to allow a less-than-rouge-proof droid to run your station, right? That's extremely risky in and of itself...

In my opinion, the way the lore is set-up is too progressive. I feel like everything is so forced to be equal with one another, just because.

To add onto that, it might be due to the fact that the state of the lore might be controlled by said progressives.

The way I see it (it'll probably not be worth a damn in the lore development team's eyes, but whatever), this can only lead to ruin and people not enjoying the environment. You guys get complaints daily by unrelated IRC shitposters that the alien players constantly act indignant and overprivileged when their position in-game is clearly not fit for them to act in such a way.

I mean, are they wrong?

I mean, if you want to act like a stuck-up, snobbish, rich prick with a narwhale's horn up their ass, play a human groupie that claims to have political pull back on Earth. It'd make sense, right? And it'd be hilarious to see other people react to it, too, so why not do that instead?

On the flipside, it wouldn't be as amusing to see such a marginalized creature rebel against everything it stands for and not get canned for displaying a bad image for the company and for Tajarans as a whole. It's not a matter of "Would my character act like this", it's a matter of "Would my character act like this at work, especially when getting fired is so easy nowadays?"

Newbie's first two cents, take it for what it's worth in this economy of mixed opinions nowadays.

[jackfractal]

Regarding mind control and IPC's. The IPC's aboard the Aurora lack both a binary modem and a law computer. That's a requirement for building them mechanically on this server. This means that they cannot be remotely accessed. They're like a computer with no network connection. Hacking a computer like that is... not impossible but significantly more challenging then a networked console.

To hack an IPC on Aurora, you need to surgically remove their brain and install it in a slaved chassis, either an AI core or a tool-cyborg. That method also works on humans, skrell, tajaran, and unathi. The only people immune to that particular method of interrogation are Dionaea, because they have distributed nervous systems. Because of this, the idea that they're security risks is not any more accurate then it is about anyone else.

The world of Aurora has perfect mind control, that means everyone and everything is a security risk.

The reason that IPC's can't take certain roles on Aurora is, like for tajaran, due to prejudice.

Personally, I would like to see them more restricted then they are. I don't think they should be IAA or Duty Officers either.

[Gollee]

Only humans can be Duty Officers.

[jackfractal]

Ah, well I sit corrected! They already can't be Duty Officers.

[Eliot Clef]

So the general vibe Im getting from this thread is not that people are interested in limiting race for lore reasons, but basing what and what isn't restricted based on what they want?

 

I don't agree with limiting races at all, even if that means we have to come up with a reason why Aurora is different from the rest of the setting. If races have to be limited, I think there should be exceptions to those restrictions as there have been in the past.

Unfortunately (in my opinion), the movement to restrict nonhumans + nonskrell is too big to make arguing for complete freedom viable in a community that makes decisions like this democratically without regard to the validity of reasons behind popular opinion, so I am more inclined to argue for restrictions with exceptions.

You are completely correct though, insofar as I am concerned. I don't actually care what the lore says about the various races, I think that denying people Head whitelists based on character race is a shame and a waste.

[Xelnagahunter]

-snip-

You are completely correct though, insofar as I am concerned. I don't actually care what the lore says about the various races, I think that denying people Head whitelists based on character race is a shame and a waste.

Head whitelists are, as of now, blanket. I accidently joined as HoP with my IPC once. I quickly had to cryo and pretend I never existed. If their whitelist app was denied due to their character on the application, it's likely because they didn't properly ready all of the information given to them. In the head whitlist forums, where you find the template, there is also a list of what races are approved for what head positions.

[Eliot Clef]

Head whitelists are, as of now, blanket. I accidently joined as HoP with my IPC once. I quickly had to cryo and pretend I never existed. If their whitelist app was denied due to their character on the application, it's likely because they didn't properly ready all of the information given to them. In the head whitlist forums, where you find the template, there is also a list of what races are approved for what head positions.

 

I'm aware. You're not "formally" banned, but you'll get thumped/bwoinked for doing it if you don't go straight to cryo. I don't think there should be restrictions, and where restrictions exist they should be exceptions if people seek them out, is what I'm saying.

[the_furry]

Im not for the removal of cats in command. Im also not for limiting other races. But i do want to know lore wise how do we justify unathi being in command and cats cant. Considering half of unathi is also trying to fight humans and they are just as distrusted. It appears to be an ooc bias if they are allowed to remain in command.

[the_furry]

Nvm that was already answered in The cmc post