Player Complaint: spacevoidagent, The Storyteller, Etc.

[the_furry]

Also, at this point, I feel we've reached the fourth layer of complaint-ception, in which I deal with a complaint referencing another complaint, which was referenced by another complaint which was a complaint about complaints. Just for some perspective.

just to add some humor and try to lighten the hearts of this topic I'm gona say this....we have to go deeper *inception music*

[The Storyteller]

If it's completely serious then it's designed to piss people off rather than make them smile. It's a malicious shitpost.

 

I suppose I should address this, even though I already have repeatedly in my last few threads. Although I am always 110% serious in all of my roleplay related activities, I have never held mal-intent towards another player.

I am not being malicious. And, I wouldn't consider voicing my ideas for changes in the story of the server as shit-posting. I am making a suggestion as to lore changes for a fictional space cat person race. If I have hurt the feelings of any real life Tajara, please let me know. I will take down my post immediately.

[Susan]

Apparently I need to further explain myself because my assumption that I was conversing with a reasonable, logical group of human beings was an incorrect one.

I am not comparing Tajaran discrimination to the holocaust. I don't think I even feel the need to state this, but given that illiteracy is apparently rampant and cherry-picking out of context misinterpretation to pretend you're in the right is common amongst SS13 communities. The analogy was regarding jokes made in poor taste. Ergo, simply because these posts were made in a joking manner does not mean they are funny, nor are they immune to being considered shitposts.

You people want me to crack down on bad Tajaran.

I have not been on Aurora for three months. You ask me to review whitelists, to examine the problem. In the short amount of information I have been given, I have deduced the problem. It is not the Tajaran players entirely; there exist whitelist holders whom are disregarding my lore and are making me contemplate punitive action. But the other half of the problem is our playerbase. My main point, which has not been addressed because it is so much easier to construct a strawman than debate points, is that by screaming about fucking catbeasts and how you should kill them all both on the forums and on server fosters a hostile environment between Tajaran whitelist holders and non-whitelistees. You are baiting them.

Let me repeat that. Baiting them. Spacevoidagent and those like him are pissing on Tajaran players ICly and OOCly and then when they react they come crying to me for whitelist strips or use it to further their own ignorant, anecdotal argument and then point fingers at the lore team for failing to police whitelistees. In reality, the moment you goad a Tajaran into reaction, I cannot do anything. You are pissing on them for the sole purpose of inciting anger and then when they react accordingly, I cannot take action.

I am going to state here what I said to Doomberg and Scopes.

I cannot reliably do my job and police Tajaran whitelists when our community continues to insult and bait them. So by extension, if you want something to be done, stop with the over the top racism and 'ha ha funny jokes guys' posts. Or don't, I don't really care. But then when people react it is entirely out of my hands, and the only one to blame is you.

This is why I request this sort of shitposting be removed.

[Ralph]

Apparently I need to further explain myself because my assumption that I was conversing with a reasonable, logical group of human beings was an incorrect one.

 

this sort of shitposting

 

From what I have read as a new player, you are very aggressive towards other people who disagree with you, so I will make this short and sweet:

If Tajaran players are playing them like they rule all and an do what they want, and attacking or complaining about people who stick to the lore in roleplaying with them, then it's your job as the Tajaran lore person to deal with those people, not complain and get aggressive alongside them.

Please take a step back and realise how you appear. You're not being professional in your posts here.

[Susan]

Did you literally not just say you are a new player, which constitutes the fact you have zero idea what is even going on on the server right now?

I did not say Tajaran are blameless. I said that it's a cycle of toxicity because the players piss them off and then they piss of the players. Can't just cut one end and expect the other to remedy itself.

[Ralph]

Then, as a thought, maybe you should deal with the problem Tajaran players. The non-problem ones seem to be fine, if there are any. Remedy the cause of the problem - the attitude of those playing Tajaran - and it solves the cycle.

[Guest]

Enough, if you are not posting about the specific incident refrain from posting.

Any off topic posts from here will be deleted without warning.

[Frances]

I believe Sue is trying to say that both parties are equally at fault.

I personally don't see the shitposting presented in this complaint as being terribly offensive - if you're foolish or sensitive enough to take it seriously, it's kinda on you. Like, would anyone actually get genuinely upset because someone jokingly called the fictional cat race they're roleplaying as "rats"?

As for the same kind of behavior IC, I do agree that it needs to be looked at, because that does affect the ability of Tajaran players to roleplay (people constantly insulting you in a childish manner is probably not a very constructive depiction of "fantasy racism".)

[Ralph]

Sorry if that was off-topic.

About the cause, it seems like the complainers took a joke too far. Complaint seems a bit redundant.

[spacevoidagent]

LOL.

The forum post was a joke in the "Cats in Command" post.

But the IC shitposting was legit. I hate Tajarans and treat them like they should be. This is hilarious.

[Tenenza]

LOL.

The forum post was a joke in the "Cats in Command" post.

But the IC shitposting was legit. I hate Tajarans and treat them like they should be. This is hilarious.

 

Is that all you have to say regarding your actions?

[spacevoidagent]

LOL.

The forum post was a joke in the "Cats in Command" post.

But the IC shitposting was legit. I hate Tajarans and treat them like they should be. This is hilarious.

 

Is that all you have to say regarding your actions?

I guess?

I was a journalist that round for the Pro-Human Association. I had a news feed and all before the security team shut me down.

[Guest]

There is someone in our community who I dislike agreeing with, it hurts my pride you see, but they are right nonetheless. None of this would happen if people could split their IC and OOC. Someone being racist against your character is an IC issue, for fucks sake, not an OOC one. I'm bordering accusations of self-insertion here, but why does it bother you at all? Sure, having people be openly racist against aliens and not being dealt with is an annoying issue that can disrupt immersion, but why don't you try and make an incident report against the characters in question before throwing a fit and start accusing people of OOC racism?

[Guest]

I hate Tajarans and treat them like they should be. This is hilarious.

Unfortunately Bokaza this is an IC action biased off OOC opinion, and it's one that is driving players away from the server, because they don't want to be attacked or yelled at all the time just because someone doesn't like what sprite they use.

[Guest]

I hate Tajarans and treat them like they should be. This is hilarious.

Unfortunately Bokaza this is an IC action biased off OOC opinion, and it's one that is driving players away from the server, because they don't want to be attacked or yelled at all the time just because someone doesn't like what sprite they use.

I see. But I guess he's still entitled to his opinion anyway and unless he's actively going out of his way to make characters that are racist just to annoy certain people, it's not an issue, imo. He's just having harmless fun. I've yet to see any actual proof that he's doing it to attack people.

However, would still ask players to differentiate between having their characters yelled at and being yelled at. It's a fictional species, it's something people chose to play. At worst, Spacevoidagent is criticizing their tastes and choices, not their birth given attributes. Players are not Tajaran. If some people wanting to make Taj's bad treatment canon makes them leave, it's their own issue, because, for all intents and purposes, this behavior is not condoned ICly.

[Dreamix]

I am just going to hop in, and ask something I think is relevant and (maybe) important. So, why is "hate" directed towards Tajaran and/or their players "bad" or "unwanted", but hating security is okay?

I mean, people are shouting in OOC about harm batoning, shitcurity and how security is bad.

People are shouting IC-ly about how security is bad, how "police" violence takes place on the station.

People are willing to nerf security because people are abusing their stuff, and to curb security's behaviors.

People are and were ranting about security since I remember, generally, saying that they are bad.

Can we stop this, please? I am a security player, and I would like to play normally, without being accused of being "shitcurity".

Now, read that again. But replace "security" with "tajaran", "batoning" with "clawing", "shitcurity" with "cats/filthy catbeast" and "police" with "tajara race".

And please don't give me some bullshit about how security is not a race, or that they are FUBAR.

[Eliot Clef]

I am just going to hop in, and ask something I think is relevant and (maybe) important. So, why is "hate" directed towards Tajaran and/or their players "bad" or "unwanted", but hating security is okay?

I mean, people are shouting in OOC about harm batoning, shitcurity and how security is bad.

People are shouting IC-ly about how security is bad, how "police" violence takes place on the station.

People are willing to nerf security because people are abusing their stuff, and to curb security's behaviors.

People are and were ranting about security since I remember, generally, saying that they are bad.

Can we stop this, please? I am a security player, and I would like to play normally, without being accused of being "shitcurity".

Now, read that again. But replace "security" with "tajaran", "batoning" with "clawing", "shitcurity" with "cats/filthy catbeast" and "police" with "tajara race".

And please don't give me some bullshit about how security is not a race, or that they are FUBAR.

 

If you want my opinion, it's that open OOC hatred towards any class of players isn't okay, and can be quite taxing on said players when they're constantly exposed to it. It's very tiring to be constantly closely scrutinized and abused by people if you play Security.

I've gotten bwoinked half a dozen times from some screaming asshole complaining about getting arrested, and only once has it been something the Admins suggested was iffy. And even then, only when I went out of my way to ask the Admin their thoughts on my behavior, they didn't actually go out of their way to tell me or get me to stop.

[Guest]

I am just going to hop in, and ask something I think is relevant and (maybe) important. So, why is "hate" directed towards Tajaran and/or their players "bad" or "unwanted", but hating security is okay?

I mean, people are shouting in OOC about harm batoning, shitcurity and how security is bad.

People are shouting IC-ly about how security is bad, how "police" violence takes place on the station.

People are willing to nerf security because people are abusing their stuff, and to curb security's behaviors.

People are and were ranting about security since I remember, generally, saying that they are bad.

Can we stop this, please? I am a security player, and I would like to play normally, without being accused of being "shitcurity".

Now, read that again. But replace "security" with "tajaran", "batoning" with "clawing", "shitcurity" with "cats/filthy catbeast" and "police" with "tajara race".

And please don't give me some bullshit about how security is not a race, or that they are FUBAR.

 

If you want my opinion, it's that open OOC hatred towards any class of players isn't okay, and can be quite taxing on said players when they're constantly exposed to it. It's very tiring to be constantly closely scrutinized and abused by people if you play Security.

I've gotten bwoinked half a dozen times from some screaming asshole complaining about getting arrested, and only once has it been something the Admins suggested was iffy. And even then, only when I went out of my way to ask the Admin their thoughts on my behavior, they didn't actually go out of their way to tell me or get me to stop.

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Central]

I'll mention here what I've mentioned elsewhere - when people invest time and effort into their characters, developing them and working with them, they become invested in that character some. It's impossible to truly divorce IC from OOC entirely. If your character has an injustice done to them, something very much wrong, you are liable to feel some anger on their part - just as you would if you followed a story in a book, and the main character was being treated unfairly. You would be frustrated for them, yes?

Now take that to the next level - this is a character you put time and effort into creating, a character that you are emotionally invested in as you likely put a bit of yourself into the character. Now someone is, for no reason other than OOC hate, deliberately discriminating against your character. While that's bad enough, they then turn around and try and say it's 'harmless fun', and say its all IC, not OOC.

But the issue I brought up elsewhere is it -is- OOC. No company would hire a blatantly anti-Tajaran bigot to work on a station that has Tajaran on it. Human Resources departments everywhere would collectively clench their assholes at the thought of hiring a racist white-supremacist to begin with, it would be incredibly stupid then to hire him on where black personnel or customers may show up.

Corporate level speciesism can be a thing - the upper brass may not trust Tajarans much - but it becomes a hugely risky thing to allow it on an individual level. Blatant speciesism on a station is just -asking- for that station's Tajaran personnel to get riled up over the individual. It's expensive and time consuming to deal with these issues.

Lastly, TheFurry brought up a point I agree with at some level - if a Captain walks into a Tajaran-run Cargo bay and starts mouthing off with 'Fucking catbeasts' this and 'Purge the damn cats' that, any Tajaran that takes offense and starts responding in kind gets OOCly bitched at for the 'sassy space cat' complaint. If they do nothing but sit there and take it, it frustrates the HELL out of the player.

We ultimately are here to have fun, and play our characters. Let's not do Space Asshole Simulator 2015, yes? If you want your character to not like Tajarans, thats completely okay, but don't be so blatant with it that any HR rep would detect it from a mile away. Be more realistic. Anything that blatant isn't IC driven, at that point, its just pure OOC hate with the veneer of 'lol IC'

[Eliot Clef]

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

I think we should just acknowledge that I'm thick as a castle wall when it comes to picking up sarcasm over the internet.

[spacevoidagent]

Yeah I hate Tajarans OOC and IC because of past experiences on multiple servers. Back in the day of you played a Tajaran the only reason you did was to ERP, because so many human females have a fetish for furry pricks apparently.

Nowadays some behavioral issues are still prevalent in a HRP environment. They are contained with three other players and don't interact with others. They have no respect towards the law, (speaking cat over radio even when told to stop by superiors), and none play according to the lore. Tajaran should be quiet, hard working individuals doing menial tasks. I'm still a firm believer Tajarans should be restricted to Civilian jobs because the chances of a Tajaran being hired over a human/Skrell on a research station are so slim, you would only see them cleaning floors and being assistants because those are the only jobs they would receive.

I'm allowed to hate Tajarans IC. I am xenophobic, so what. I tell insults all the time, others find it funny, others don't. If Lore held true, Tajarans wouldn't dare talk back out of fear of getting fired or removed.

If my picture isn't clear enough, the Tajaran hate could be comparable to the times after the civil war. There would be segregation in place against the Tajarans, and even Unathi. By this time, Humans would have a positive image about the Skrell and no laws would be in place against them. Tajarans would live in ghettos, use different restrooms, work low paying jobs, and only the young would receive some education. Even then, the education would be mediocre, and managers would rather hire a human other then a Tajaran.

[Guest]

I'll mention here what I've mentioned elsewhere - when people invest time and effort into their characters, developing them and working with them, they become invested in that character some. It's impossible to truly divorce IC from OOC entirely. If your character has an injustice done to them, something very much wrong, you are liable to feel some anger on their part - just as you would if you followed a story in a book, and the main character was being treated unfairly. You would be frustrated for them, yes?

Now take that to the next level - this is a character you put time and effort into creating, a character that you are emotionally invested in as you likely put a bit of yourself into the character. Now someone is, for no reason other than OOC hate, deliberately discriminating against your character. While that's bad enough, they then turn around and try and say it's 'harmless fun', and say its all IC, not OOC.

But the issue I brought up elsewhere is it -is- OOC. No company would hire a blatantly anti-Tajaran bigot to work on a station that has Tajaran on it. Human Resources departments everywhere would collectively clench their assholes at the thought of hiring a racist white-supremacist to begin with, it would be incredibly stupid then to hire him on where black personnel or customers may show up.

Corporate level speciesism can be a thing - the upper brass may not trust Tajarans much - but it becomes a hugely risky thing to allow it on an individual level. Blatant speciesism on a station is just -asking- for that station's Tajaran personnel to get riled up over the individual. It's expensive and time consuming to deal with these issues.

Lastly, TheFurry brought up a point I agree with at some level - if a Captain walks into a Tajaran-run Cargo bay and starts mouthing off with 'Fucking catbeasts' this and 'Purge the damn cats' that, any Tajaran that takes offense and starts responding in kind gets OOCly bitched at for the 'sassy space cat' complaint. If they do nothing but sit there and take it, it frustrates the HELL out of the player.

We ultimately are here to have fun, and play our characters. Let's not do Space Asshole Simulator 2015, yes? If you want your character to not like Tajarans, thats completely okay, but don't be so blatant with it that any HR rep would detect it from a mile away. Be more realistic. Anything that blatant isn't IC driven, at that point, its just pure OOC hate with the veneer of 'lol IC'

Right, this is well thought out, but let me tell you, I've invested a lot of time into my characters. I get pissed when people call them shit as any other person. I get mad when my character is not doing well. But I simply calm down and tell myself that I'm not my character. I try and not to act on those feelings. Besides, the characters are being treated as shit not because they are bad characters, but because they are Taj. It wasn't even a direct critique.

As for the rest of it, I agree for the most part. Any extreme behavior is bad, be it cat gangs or racist journalist, but it should boil down to accusations of chucklefuckery, not racism. As for the Captain... that captain should be fire.

 

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

I think we should just acknowledge that I'm thick as a castle wall when it comes to picking up sarcasm over the internet.

I think I am as well... maybe.

[Central]

Void, the problem with that approach is -very few- people want to play in that kind of situation. We'd have almost no alien species at ALL if we made playing them a constant 'walking-on-eggshells' situation. It wouldn't be fun, it would be stressful, the exact opposite of what coming here to enjoy your time and roleplay should be.

[the_furry]

. As for the Captain... that captain should be fire.

As for the captain...i was given a warning because i told a person like that to go away and ignored demands.. Because apparently thats to much sass for that sort of treatment.....*sighs*

[Guest]

As for the Captain... that captain should be fired.

As for the captain...i was given a warning because i told a person like that to go away and ignored demands.. Because apparently thats to much sass for that sort of treatment.....*sighs*

Ohh, right, that might be refering to me...

That time, the chef was being racist, so the tajaran denied them their order, one they needed to /work/ in the kitchen. Denying someone their work supplies for being rude is something a Captain can't condone in game. So, I ordered the create delivered, then sent an Officer to warn both parties for it to not happen again. As far as I'm aware, the issue was settled, as no further issues reached my ear. If it persisted, I would've had the chef penalized properly.

However, what I do not remember doing, is saying "Filthy catbeasts" at any point during that round.