TechnoKat Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Just keep the wildlife simulation on, it's fun having carps to chase you around than this, no need to point out why: [attachment=0]llook at this shit.PNG[/attachment]
Baka Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 concur im tired of talking to people who pushes the button keep carp, but remove atmos simulator 2457
TechnoKat Posted October 9, 2015 Author Posted October 9, 2015 concur im tired of talking to people who pushes the button keep carp, but remove atmos simulator 2457 adopt a hard working admin today.
the_furry Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I agree. Spent an entire round saving people from xeno maddness just for ot to suddenly end from holofire. Though i dont think we should just outright get ride of it. I wouldn't m8nd seeing other simulations and whta not. But not something that pretty much demends an emidiate evac
Killerhurtz Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I disagree. It IS a powerful weapon. What we need is education on this - because to be honest, there's only four sort of people who will press it: griefers, crazies, ignorant bots/AIs and antags. The first two are bannable, the third can learn, and the fourth will usually only use it as either a weapon or a menace - it's almost a Nuke level of threat. Though what I say should be done is allow cancelling it and giving another simulation that completely cancels it, on top of having actual value (like vacuum-pressure testing, cryoatmospherics testing, so on).
Garnascus Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Strongly disagree! I actually think having things of this hilariously lethal nature is healthy to game design. Along this same line of logic we should prevent the singularity from being so destructive.
jackfractal Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 A while ago we talked about having the holofire create 'fake' fire that only burn-murdered people inside the holodeck without blowing out the windows and murdering half the station. That's... probably more what it was intended to be used for.
Killerhurtz Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Jack, there's a single problem with that. The fact that the holofire is only available when the security features are off. Unless we had plasma windows on the holodeck, it only makes sense that a device/room that can create, on demand, tangible holo-matter could create, if tampered with, an actual fire. Though what I wonder is, how does the fire sustain itself? IIRC it spread pretty heavily last time I saw it. Does the holodeck legit create plasma? (Though talking about singularity - I'd be down having a 5-second holosingularity that attract and gib people)
Zidanyia Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I'm voting to outright remove it. There's no need for something like this level of destruction should exist on an RP server of all places. Its location in the center of the station is a mapping oversight, but I would rather temporarily remove it until it can be balanced out properly.
jackfractal Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Errr... yeah, by 'fake fire' I mean like just turf blocks that apply fire damage when yo're on top of them. They're not create heat or plasma, just 'burn' people on top of them. That makes it possible to invite everyone to your murder party on the holodeck, but it's not able to actually kill everyone on the entire station forever. Currently, it creates an an infinite amount of real tangible burning plasma, which is why everything and everyone dies.
Garnascus Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Its balanced fine as it is since using it without REALLY good reason is a clear violation of antag-related server rules. Even in a high-rp environment there needs to be some absurdly lethal and catastrophic things.
Killerhurtz Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Yeah no - that's just fucking retarded. I completely agree with SEVERELY gimping the holodeck fire. Because as it stands, it's literally a game-over switch. And if it can't be toned down, fuck it, remove it. But let's make sure to add some more antag features to make sure that it still stays fun.
Guest Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 And if it can't be toned down, fuck it, remove it. But let's make sure to add some more antag features to make sure that it still stays fun. This is the one problem I have with "Remove X" threads, there is usually no suggestions on other things that can happen instead. Come up with suggestions for new things and we might be able to sort something out
Killerhurtz Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Suggestions hm? More varied 'atmos tests'. Vacuum test. 6000PSI test. Cryoatmospheric test. Pure oxygen atmosphere test. Ultra-heat-test-that-does-not-involve-plasma. And some non-atmos tests. Holo-laser-turret test. Holo trash compactor test. Holosingularity test that can't destroy station, just swallow up everything that's not tied down and gib people who touch it.
Carver Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Though what I wonder is, how does the fire sustain itself? IIRC it spread pretty heavily last time I saw it. Does the holodeck legit create plasma? Well if we're going by Star Trek lore on holodecks, they just rearrange matter. Going by the times where the holodeck gets messed up in Star Trek, it could also, very feasibly kill someone. The only oddity is that, the Star Trek holodecks, even with their own safety bits messed up, still couldn't maintain any holomatter entities outside of the holodeck. They'd just fade. So the fire, the carp, and so on, shouldn't be able to exist outside of the holodeck. Therefore one could very feasibly nerf these simulations whilst still maintaining their lethality, by just having the contents 'disappear' if they leave the holodeck.
Lady_of_Ravens Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Though what I wonder is, how does the fire sustain itself? IIRC it spread pretty heavily last time I saw it. Does the holodeck legit create plasma? Well if we're going by Star Trek lore on holodecks, they just rearrange matter. Going by the times where the holodeck gets messed up in Star Trek, it could also, very feasibly kill someone. The only oddity is that, the Star Trek holodecks, even with their own safety bits messed up, still couldn't maintain any holomatter entities outside of the holodeck. They'd just fade. So the fire, the carp, and so on, shouldn't be able to exist outside of the holodeck. Therefore one could very feasibly nerf these simulations whilst still maintaining their lethality, by just having the contents 'disappear' if they leave the holodeck. Oooh, star trek. I like me some startrek. You may recall complex objects vanishing when leaving the holodeck, most notably people although I do recall one episode where they were experimenting with transporting furniture and such out of the holodeck, but if you pay attention you'll notice that simple things often remain. In the very first episode of next-gen Wesley falls in a holographic river and remains soaking wet after leaving the holodeck. And There's at least one episode where the captain has a smudge of lipstick on his face that doesn't go away when he leaves. Also in the first episode it's explained that most of what's in the holodeck is real (replicated matter). This explenation could make sense for the burn test in aurora (not so sure about the holocarp)... though I should note that the star trek holodeck relies heavily on replicator technology, something we don't have on aurora, so I'm not sure how applicable it is to our setting.
Carver Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 A little bit of water and the like I've noted in the show, but a sweltering atmosphere of burning plasma and welding fuel isn't something I imagine either the SS13 or Star Trek holoemitters could maintain outside of the holodeck, as that would likely drain power quite a bit. Though, thinking on the Star Trek variation has raised a few ideas of sims one could add to the SS13 holodeck, both safe and non-safe.
Lady_of_Ravens Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 You have something of a point... though it's hard to reason about as Star Trek isn't entirely consistent in how it handles the holodeck. TNG episodes suggest it's mostly real matter, while in voyager we see more evidence to suggest that it's mostly light and forcefields. This could also be taken as advancement in holodeck technology progressing away from the need to replicate matter to create convincing terrain, but that's neither here nor there. If the earlier episodes are taken as the source, materials in the holodeck exist as exactly what they appear and would, therefore, persist if the holodeck failed catastrophically, but anything with a more complicated structure (like holocarp) would disintegrate outside the holodeck. On the other hand, I'm inclined to think the aurora's holodeck is more light/forcefield based seeing as we have both of those things, but no replicators. Which would imply that nothing created in the holodeck could exist outside it.
Killerhurtz Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 If you ask me, Star Trek is not a reference for sci-fi things. It's too inconsistent - and that's because, first things first, it's not a sci-fi show - it's an exploration slash diplomatic show. Most of you (and me) don't watch Star Trek to learn how everything works - we watch it because the characters are awesome and they're often in awesome situations. So far, the game that features technology the closest to Aurora, I'd say, is Mass Effect - replace Element Zero with plasma and replace the properties of element zero with bluespace, and I'm 90% sure that we have Aurora. The faxes/communications to Central use quantum relay IIRC, which is expensive - and so most comms are still radio-based (just like in Mass Effect). Only difference is that Aurora has viable laser weaponry (which was most likely just not developed in Mass Effect because element zero made it easy to have extremely potent ballistics). And so, it would make sense that the Holodeck followed the rules of Mass Effect holography - it's semi-tangible because of a holographic shell (see Pinnacle Station and Armax Arena) and can DEFINITELY kill because of that shell (like the final simulation of Pinnacle Station and the glitched sim of Armax Arena, where despite being in a visible holosimulation, when you die it's for real instead of the simulation shutting down when you're critical) - but erroneous data show as video fizz (I think the space carp already show that) and holographic projections literally cannot go past their projector because they'd disappear (just like putting a program window past the edge of a screen on PC). There's also intangible holograms if desired, and there's a third type of hologram that work only with specialized gloves or hand implants because they use magnetic resonance feedback. Thoughts?
Carver Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 If you ask me, Star Trek is not a reference for sci-fi things. It's too inconsistent --- Most of you (and me) don't watch Star Trek to learn how everything works - we watch it because the characters are awesome and they're often in awesome situations. ---And so, it would make sense that the Holodeck followed the rules of Mass Effect holography--- Star Trek is a good reference for sci-fi things when said sci-fi things are a direct reference to Star Trek. (Holodeck, hypospray, a few of the chemical reagents, CMO's blue labcoat, the old energy guns/phasers before they transitioned into more traditional taser/lasers, etc.)
Killerhurtz Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 I know that, Carver. But what I mean is that you're describing a base - a reference has the specifics we need - and Star Trek is not consistent across the series. So unless we are willing to settle on a single series which shows consistency, Star Trek is a base, not a reference.
Dreamix Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 So... Can we at least have the "atmos simulation"/"burn test" changed to a more appropriate name, like "ATMOS TEST DON'T CLICK UNLESS YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" or something similar?
EvilBrage Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Come up with suggestions for new things and we might be able to sort something out Forget which server I saw it on (probably Liberty) but there were "virtual reality" headsets that - when equipped - would transport the user to a virtual world while leaving an identical catatonic-esque mob staring into the VR headset in place of the player. I want our holodeck to do this, and I want our hallucinations to have a chance to do this (instead of the dumb tired old "XYZ IS HITTING ME! I HAVE A GUN! FIRE! BOMB ALERT, THIS IS NOT A DRILL!") Seems like an appropriate replacement for the holodeck fire if you ninnies are absolutely dead-set on removing it.
Carver Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Forget which server I saw it on (probably Liberty) but there were "virtual reality" headsets that - when equipped - would transport the user to a virtual world while leaving an identical catatonic-esque mob staring into the VR headset in place of the player. I think that's Goonstation, actually, and their VR systems were pretty cash. Detective had a VR set, the communal brig had a VR sleeper, and so on. Sent you to a combat sim filled with a variety of guns and other things, and IIRC you could emag the VR sleepers so once someone is in, they can't come out without someone else's help. (Or maybe at all I don't really remember because I never used the systems.)
EvilBrage Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I think that's Goonstation, actually, and their VR systems were pretty cash. Detective had a VR set, the communal brig had a VR sleeper, and so on. Sent you to a combat sim filled with a variety of guns and other things, and IIRC you could emag the VR sleepers so once someone is in, they can't come out without someone else's help. (Or maybe at all I don't really remember because I never used the systems.) Yes, this. Can we have these on the holodeck? Reminds me a bit of the Star Trek holodeck a bit when I think about it that way.
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