Character Complaint - Meowness

[Demonofthefall]

BYOND Key: Demonofthefall

Player Byond Key: Meowness

Staff involved:

Reason for complaint: Unrealistic racism

Approximate Date/Time: Every single round he plays Lyar

Mrychny Lyar [145.9] says, "And quit yourrr scheming meowing, you furrry fucks."

Mrychny Lyar [145.9] says, "Maybe stop leaving yourrr fucking furrr everrrywherrre."

Mrychny Lyar [145.9] says, "All fucking catbeasts must fucking hang."

Mrychny Lyar [145.9] says, "All of you fucking catbeasts arrre sluts.

Just a sample of what he says almost every round. I would do a incident report but I feel its more of a OOC issue. Im not calling for him to be banned or anything but if anyone else said stuff like this on a regular basis they would have their whitelist removed.

Player Memo by Tablespoon on (Sun) 20 Sep 22:50

Regarding species hate: IC racism is fine but please keep the game fun for alien players too. Remember that an outright racist employee may be reprimanded or even fired for their behavior. Also remember the 'don't be a dick' rule. If possible, create roleplay scenarios that encourage broader involvment instead of sidelining or excluding certain people.

This memo is seen whenever you log on to the server and Im pretty sure Lyar has never been fired or reprimanded for his behaviour. Is it possible people let it slide because its Meowy? probably. Im kinda getting sick of it because its not even slightly realistic behaviour and its like he made a Tajara just to be racist towards Tajara and to get away with it.

Anyways sorry to bitch, I don't usually post these things but its beginning to get a bit ridiculous. "Glass Adhomai" "Fuck you furries" is not something someone should be able to say over comms on a regular basis and get away with it without punishment.

[EmilyTheAwesome]

During most of the rounds I am active, and so is Meowness, this kind of talk is quite commonplace. It is true that Lyar has been demoted once or twice for it, but not nearly enough to actually matter it seems. (I did lodge in IC complaint on it just this shift, but can't go on about that since it's ongoing.) Yes, it is true that there is currently tensions between the Tajarans and Humans, and yes it is true we can expect racism against Tajarans. But this IS a professional work environment. If someone were to do anything equivalent to this irl, they would get fired in a heartbeat, regardless of if it is someone making fun of their own race. This kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated in the slightest.

As has been said on the subject many times, IC racism can be fun if done right. This is NOT done right, and in fact detracts from the general fun of the game constantly.

[Guest Menown]

Incident reports aren't a thing, I guess. Don't handle it ICly, try to bring an Admin into it instead of doing it ICly. Real good precedent.

[EmilyTheAwesome]

Incident reports aren't a thing, I guess. Don't handle it ICly, try to bring an Admin into it instead of doing it ICly. Real good precedent.

I would like to state a fallacy in this argument. A few points to make on this. If it was a once in a while thing, sure it could be handled IC. But has it? Does it get handled enough to make that character change? I have not seen this.

And the fact that, to bring this reference, this argument has been done in the other way around when it comes to Safiya. Things that happened ICly and got player complained about were pretty well cheered on in that regard. Yet the moment it's about another Tajaran or anyone else in General, it's a bad idea.

This falls beyond the issue of IC issues, due to the constant talk about the "catbeasts" you seem to contribute. And the fact that, despite being told against it, Lyar keeps on with this talk without punishment.

[Guest Menown]

Incident reports aren't a thing, I guess. Don't handle it ICly, try to bring an Admin into it instead of doing it ICly. Real good precedent.

I would like to state a fallacy in this argument. A few points to make on this. If it was a once in a while thing, sure it could be handled IC. But has it? Does it get handled enough to make that character change? I have not seen this.

And the fact that, to bring this reference, this argument has been done in the other way around when it comes to Safiya. Things that happened ICly and got player complained about were pretty well cheered on in that regard. Yet the moment it's about another Tajaran or anyone else in General, it's a bad idea.

This falls beyond the issue of IC issues, due to the constant talk about the "catbeasts" you seem to contribute. And the fact that, despite being told against it, Lyar keeps on with this talk without punishment.

 

Lyar has been told /once/ by a HoS, which injunctions filed by Command staff aren't held round after round, unless a DO is involved. We have a way of handling IC issues like this, something lots of Tajara players can't seem to understand.

So many Lyar says what he says. Maybe he's had to arrest enough Tajara for clawing the face up of somebody when they're called catbeast or called names. Maybe he sees lots of members of his species as over-aggressive mongrels who don't seem to understand they're away from almost certain death on a war-torn hell-hole of a planet. Maybe he sees that so many of his 'proud species' doesn't have thick enough skin to take a few remarks like that, or even understand a way to handle it through a proper chain of command. So far, only once has he been told to stop, and it was a human that reported him.

Other Tajara just return the name calling or tell him to shave his fur.

[EmilyTheAwesome]

Incident reports aren't a thing, I guess. Don't handle it ICly, try to bring an Admin into it instead of doing it ICly. Real good precedent.

I would like to state a fallacy in this argument. A few points to make on this. If it was a once in a while thing, sure it could be handled IC. But has it? Does it get handled enough to make that character change? I have not seen this.

And the fact that, to bring this reference, this argument has been done in the other way around when it comes to Safiya. Things that happened ICly and got player complained about were pretty well cheered on in that regard. Yet the moment it's about another Tajaran or anyone else in General, it's a bad idea.

This falls beyond the issue of IC issues, due to the constant talk about the "catbeasts" you seem to contribute. And the fact that, despite being told against it, Lyar keeps on with this talk without punishment.

 

Lyar has been told /once/ by a HoS, which injunctions filed by Command staff aren't held round after round, unless a DO is involved. We have a way of handling IC issues like this, something lots of Tajara players can't seem to understand.

So many Lyar says what he says. Maybe he's had to arrest enough Tajara for clawing the face up of somebody when they're called catbeast or called names. Maybe he sees lots of members of his species as over-aggressive mongrels who don't seem to understand they're away from almost certain death on a war-torn hell-hole of a planet. Maybe he sees that so many of his 'proud species' doesn't have thick enough skin to take a few remarks like that, or even understand a way to handle it through a proper chain of command. So far, only once has he been told to stop, and it was a human that reported him.

Other Tajara just return the name calling or tell him to shave his fur.

I don't really know any of the punishment or warnings said against him IC wise, to be fair. And yes, this can still be solved ICly. It was my understanding that it was a constantly warned about thing from higher ups, which is why I was quick to jump on that part. Gonna wait for Demon to post again before I say more on the subject. But this is, in light of Meow's defense here, an issue that I would suggest be moved over to the Incident Reports.

--Redacted, see below--

Edited October 14, 2015 by Guest

[witchbells]

As a note, no incident report has been filed as of yet in regards to Mrychny Lyar's racism.

[EmilyTheAwesome]

As a note, no incident report has been filed as of yet in regards to Mrychny Lyar's racism.

In reference to what I said in my post, I had done so in game strictly. Haven't posted anything on the forums about it as of this time.

[witchbells]

As a note, no incident report has been filed as of yet in regards to Mrychny Lyar's racism.

In reference to what I said in my post, I had done so in game strictly. Haven't posted anything on the forums about it as of this time.

 

The best way to get a problem solved is by bringing it to the right people. Central Command isn't omniscient, but if you post this behavior to the incident report forums properly, it's assured that duty officers will take a look at it.

[Demonofthefall]

I can already see nothing good will come from this thread except for people just bitching at each other.

[Guest Menown]

I can already see nothing good will come from this thread except for people just bitching at each other.

 

I'm not bitching. Just make an incident report. Simple as that. This would have been better as an incident report which is what I /eventually/ wanted to happen to Lyar, because I figured people would either get annoyed with it, or somebody would be offended. I never even thought people would be offended OOCly about it.

[Reyjakai]

A lot of people here seem to have a massive problem separating IC and OOC, and this complaint is evidence of it. The issue is wholly IC and should probably be dealt with as an incident report, not a character/player complaint. As was stated earlier, there's already a system in place for you to file a complaint IC with Internal Affairs and have it dealt with by duty officers.

[Guest Menown]

I'll acknowledge I /may/ have gone too far with the furry statement, but that's literally just him copying things he's heard detaining the random bald griefer. Yiff in hell is another popular one, but he reserves that for when he's killing mice that were breeding. So, I get there might be some OOC anger from that one.

[the_furry]

So I was on the round at the time. I’m only going to post on this once because I’m not about to get majorly involved in another one of these things. But I’m just gona throw this out there. Didn’t space get a warning(and that memo get created) for this exact behavior? Like, for screaming unrealistic racism over coms….that’s why space was handled oocly and the memo was created…right. Even if you have a background reason to scream “fuck the catbeats” (as space said he did) it’s still poor enough rp and violates the don’t be a dick rule to enough of an extent to justify an OOC complaint. *shrugs*

if this is to be handled ICly (because I do understand that as a possibility) then I think whatever heads involved that thought it’s ok for lyar to scream “fuck cats” should also have action taken against them. This is extremely reminiscent and almost an exact repeat of adler where lyar is screaming unrealistic racism and the heads think it’s ok. Meowy you should expect the same action that happened to adler.

Whether it’s handled Icly or oocly I do think it should be actually handled and stopped because it did have a negative effect on several of the players at the time.

In the end meowy, you know this has been an extremely hot button issue on both sides lately. Had this not been such an issue so recently I doubt people would be as sore as they are right now. I think you can pull off an uncle ruckus but as you said this time it might have gone too far considering the recent events.

*poofs never to reply to the complaint again*

[EmilyTheAwesome]

I actually do redact my previous statement about how this should be, infact, handled ICly. This behavior actually is quite unbecoming of a whitelisted player. Sure you can try to justify it with character backstory, but in the end that's you as the player are making an excuse to get away with this level of racism that you so strongly feel about OOCly, ICly, and should in fact be taken action to in the OOC regards.

This is an issue that has gone past IC, as it does affect the actual enjoyment of the game for certain parties involved, and should be handled thusly.

[Guest]

A lot of people here seem to have a massive problem separating IC and OOC, and this complaint is evidence of it. The issue is wholly IC and should probably be dealt with as an incident report, not a character/player complaint. As was stated earlier, there's already a system in place for you to file a complaint IC with Internal Affairs and have it dealt with by duty officers.

 

Considering how someone got permanently banned for it already...

Hell, I don't even know anymore.

[Guest]

Considering how someone got permanently banned for it already...

Hell, I don't even know anymore.

That wasn't the only thing they were banned for.

But there is a limit, if you're doing it every round to the point where it annoying then there is an OOC problem. Lets look at the player memo that was placed out

Player Memo by Tablespoon on (Sun) 20 Sep 22:50

Regarding species hate: IC racism is fine but please keep the game fun for alien players too. Remember that an outright racist employee may be reprimanded or even fired for their behavior. Also remember the 'don't be a dick' rule. If possible, create roleplay scenarios that encourage broader involvment instead of sidelining or excluding certain people.

 

Now without looking at the logs too deep I can say that sometimes it can cross the line between what is acceptable and what is not, but has anyone tried going the IC route on this? (before this complaint was made) I haven't seen it directed at people, just off comments every now and again (No timeline between now and then given in that statement).

[witchbells]

I actually do redact my previous statement about how this should be, infact, handled ICly. This behavior actually is quite unbecoming of a whitelisted player. Sure you can try to justify it with character backstory, but in the end that's you as the player are making an excuse to get away with this level of racism that you so strongly feel about OOCly, ICly, and should in fact be taken action to in the OOC regards.

This is an issue that has gone past IC, as it does affect the actual enjoyment of the game for certain parties involved, and should be handled thusly.

 

There's a small issue here you're failing to see.

This is an IC issue that has not been reported once. Not only is Mrychny Lyar's player encouraging anyone upset by the racism to file an incident report, but it would literally be the first report made on his character's racist behavior. Meowy has shown no disdain for Tajaran players other than this IC action.

[Guest]

I actually do redact my previous statement about how this should be, infact, handled ICly. This behavior actually is quite unbecoming of a whitelisted player. Sure you can try to justify it with character backstory, but in the end that's you as the player are making an excuse to get away with this level of racism that you so strongly feel about OOCly, ICly, and should in fact be taken action to in the OOC regards.

This is an issue that has gone past IC, as it does affect the actual enjoyment of the game for certain parties involved, and should be handled thusly.

 

There's a small issue here you're failing to see.

This is an IC issue that has not been reported once. Not only is Mrychny Lyar's player encouraging anyone upset by the racism to file an incident report, but it would literally be the first report made on his character's racist behavior. Meowy has shown no disdain for Tajaran players other than this IC action.

 

Reminder: This player is a duty officer. If they say they haven't heard anything from you guys about the character rather than the player (Neither of which are actually doing anything wrong besides trying to provide comic relief and instead receiving rather negative OOC feedback about what is said or done IC), then perhaps it is not the target of this complaint's fault here.

On another wonderful note, is it just me, or does there seem to be a pattern here with a certain clique that likes to chime in whenever the word "catbeast" is either ironically or unironically put into play?

Because when you get weird messages like these from supposedly long-gone players, you start to wonder about the state of the narrative said clique likes to pander about. I'm extremely tired of hearing about the drama said clique likes to create, and I'm tired of being 'forced' by this little insidious metaclique to either choose their side and say things that support their narrative, or lest I regret my words.

[Guest]

Stick on topic do not bring other complaints into this thread.

[Guest]

Right.

What I mean to say is, this is the second complaint made by this 'specific clique' that I mentioned already, primarily consisting of Tajaran whitelistees, complaining about IC behavior of space racism, which is neither actually breaking a rule nor is it behavior that needs to be forcibly curbed OOC.

I can't help but be alarmed by the bias that is displayed in this thread and in the others protecting the 'good name' of Tajarans when it really doesn't even matter. To me, this looks like some weird internal power struggle over Tajaran players.

[Guest]

I'm going to ask, is this any different from someone playing a black person and saying N----- a lot?

The other people who play black characters wouldn't like it but at the same time if it's only IC then there should be some attempt to handle it IC, as of yet there hasn't been with this character/player.

Personally I hate the meme of "Fucking catbeasts" Why? It's ammo for the people who are being malicious.

The whitelist has nothing to do with this and shouldn't be a factor.

This is IC racism.

[Demonofthefall]

Right.

What I mean to say is, this is the second complaint made by this 'specific clique' that I mentioned already, primarily consisting of Tajaran whitelistees, complaining about IC behavior of space racism, which is neither actually breaking a rule nor is it behavior that needs to be forcibly curbed OOC.

I can't help but be alarmed by the bias that is displayed in this thread and in the others protecting the 'good name' of Tajarans when it really doesn't even matter. To me, this looks like some weird internal power struggle over Tajaran players.

 

Specific clique? This is the first complaint and its nothing to do with it being a Tajara, if it was a Unathi going around every single shift yelling over comms "Glass Moghes, hang every lizard" I would still post because it seems unrealistic. The reason I didn't make it a IR is that it seemed like it was unrealistic racism and just being a dick for the sake of it. It would be like making a black Human character walking around saying (excuse my language) "Hang all the niggers, glass earth, fuck the darkies" or a Jewish character saying "Hitler was right, bring back the holocaust, hang all jews, Nazi for life" its unrealistic is the main point Im making.

[Guest Menown]

Its unrealistic is the main point Im making.

No, you're right, this is very unrealistic.

[Contextual]

its unrealistic is the main point Im making.

 

Weird. No one said this about Phoene Essel, even though she does.... well, just about the exact same thing. Maybe she gets away with it because she's not hating Tajaran? Or maybe because 'yeah, fuck humies'?