RnD Lockboxes

[LordFowl]

I don't think the Head of Security should have direct access whatsoever to what research can and cannot print. I definitely do not think the Warden should either. Let the exact and mechanical power of each department lay within each department and under the authority of the Captain and if security wishes to mandate what can and cannot be done through each department they will have to go through the department head, the captain, or get the spare ID.

I think a blacklist is ultimately better than a whitelist because it is easier to implement and removes a few issues tied with the individual - metabuddies, elitism, etc.

[EvilBrage]

This isn't an "ease of access" problem, this is another "security isn't doing their jobs" problem.

Specifically - I believe we have directives that state it's illegal to carry research materials (including protopistols) outside the lab without RD authorization. Those research directors who're allowing their staff to go hunt antagonists (and doing the same themselves) outside of the most dire "everyone is dead" scenario should have their whitelist stripped, but even that isn't the real issue. The crux of the issue is that security sees other individuals hunting antagonists as "friends" and in their little world, friends don't confiscate illegal weaponry from friends. With no repercussions to fear from security, what stops these scientists from doing exactly this? We've got a serious problem in that security believes that it's only beholden to its own department, and anyone who disagrees with their interpretation of the law (even the captain) will get brigged for seeking disciplinary action against them.

This is as much a security problem as a science problem. Reporting them to a duty officer won't help, because then you have to canonize a response to an antagonist action. Lockboxes aren't exactly an elegant solution either. Either we fix our standards for security, or we make research much more difficult (which I'm not opposed to, frankly.)

[Killerhurtz]

Brage, that's another thing.

A lot of the time, the RDs aren't even AWARE that their scientists are antaghunting or have weapons on them until it's too late.

Though I have to agree that making science a lot harder may be beneficial - it'd give the players something to do.

[Garnascus]

I do not feel scientists handing out weapons and hunting atags is a large enough issue to warrant such a game mechanic. If scientists ARE doing this then its very likely an OOC issue and should be ahelped as we have rules against powergaming and antag hunting.

[jackfractal]

That's my opinion too. I get that this is a problem, but it's already forbidden both IC and OOC. Adding game mechanics to absolutely forever-ban it is unnecessary.

[Guest]

I do not feel scientists handing out weapons and hunting atags is a large enough issue to warrant such a game mechanic. If scientists ARE doing this then its very likely an OOC issue and should be ahelped as we have rules against powergaming and antag hunting.

 

Do you think it's possible not as many people ahelp when they should about rulebreaking things because they feel either A.) nothing is going to be done about it or B.) they feel that not enough is going to be done about it?

I think it to be a legitimate viewpoint. I do not see nor hear nor smell of any job-bans handed out to scientists who antaghunt or powergame.

At the very least, staff now do not do things like they used to way back when. Just an example, I guess.

[Garnascus]

If you see a problem/rule violation occur and you dont ahelp then you are contributing to the problem. Staff are not omniscient. Although our protocol for ahelps has very recently changed. We can now report back to the original ahelper about what we did and our reasoning for it. In the past we would just say "its been dealt with" which I agree can be incredibly frustrating.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Yeah ahelping is all well and good but "it's an IC issue" has been the response to this kind of situation so many times that I don't bother anymore. I just have RnD wiped.

This is the smallest thing. Like why is there such an uproar. This harms nothing but your ability to get weapons, and even then not if you have an RD. It's not the responsibility of security to babysit research every round, because I guarantee you with my 100% word that protopistols have been candy since this server was started.

I'll play the card of it being more realistic that scientists don't get to walk around with lethal weapons without an RD oversight, or at least passing knowledge that someone has it because they had to unlock a lockbox.

Loyalty implants are lockboxed. Your laser canon can be put in a lockbox. It isn't going to ruin your round or kill science.

[Reyjakai]

Honest question here. Why does we still have protopistols in the game? You can make it so that you can guaranteed kill someone without having any resources, it's hilariously overpowered, and the upgrades on them are hilariously overpowered. There's no reason for them to exist, especially given the current state of things. In fact, research really has no business having weaponry. Cargo should be the only way that the station can acquire new weaponry. Sure, weapons testing is a thing, but why don't we replace all the weapons in R&D with things that are actually useful to the station? We have the floral somatoray for botany, various beakers for medical, not much of anything for engineering, and a massive amount of things for security. A lockbox won't fix anything. As long as weapons exist in the department, they'll be abused.

[Filthyfrankster]

Rebumping this old thing for great justice

skullpls

[canon35]

I still say yes, but have it so the HoS, captain, and RD can open them.

[Guest]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

OooooOOOoooOo

I'd really rather things remain as they are. Lockboxes are dumb. :^)

[canon35]

Lockboxes aren't bad.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

No, they're dumb.

[canon35]

They're a good idea, helps security and the RD control science so they don't get a armoury in secret. If a traitor wants RnD guns, there's always emags. I really don't see a point in not having them in.

[Guest]

Because they're a pain in the ass to deal with, at the best of times. Weapons research and potential distro already relies on competent scientists and active miners to happen (at all). Not to mention, there's absolutely no reason behind having a pre-fabbed lockbox magically appear around a prototype.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No, they're dumb.

 

Never before in the history of our entire species has an argument been presented so succinctly. Your grasp of prose and logical insight in this discussion has left me speechless. Your charisma surpasses even the greatest statesmen, and you've moved me on a deeply spiritual and personal level.

 

Because they're a pain in the ass to deal with, at the best of times. Weapons research and potential distro already relies on competent scientists and active miners to happen (at all). Not to mention, there's absolutely no reason behind having a pre-fabbed lockbox magically appear around a prototype.

 

I have to disagree. It's easy for RnD to pop out weapons. They've been very common, and many times security is completely unaware that scientists or RnD in general are running around with them.

This does nothing but delay your ability to hold your laser cannon for a good 5 minutes. All the much less lethal weapons available to the station are in ID-locked safes in a secure armory. There is no reason that science can't also have basic safety procedures with printed weapons. Arguing against lockboxes with "it's an inconvenience" is evidence of particular RnD player's entitlement around printed weapons and how easy it is to get these weapons. Arguing about them for the sake of realism is absurd beyond comprehension. It's harmful for the science department's very existence to argue in favor of realism given the hilariously unrealistic things it does. That's a can of worms you don't want to open without your stance being wildly inconsistent to the point of irrelevancy.

If a scientist is not allowed to waltz into the armory and seize the weapons inside "for the porpoise of testing", then there is absolutely no reason that they can be allowed to print out the exact same weapons, and far superior weapons, with impunity.

Its unrealistic.

[Guest]

But it sure is fun.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As I discovered earlier today, eating an entire large container of cheese puffs can be fun, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable or healthy to do.

(In this metaphor printing out weapons without lockboxes is cheese puffs and realism is my stomach)

[Guest]

You have a point there, man. I still feel like sneaking weapons out into the station at large, be they lethal or interchangeable, or entirely non lethal, is something that needs to happen more often than it does. Unfortunately, scientists are a reclusive and insular creature.

MUCH TOO TRUSTWORTHY BY HALF.

[Guest]

Fuck it. Let's make this happen. But Jesus Christ, if I can't get access to them when I actually want to do weapons research, I'm gonna be pissed.

[Dreamix]

Fuck it. Let's make this happen. But Jesus Christ, if I can't get access to them when I actually want to do weapons research, I'm gonna be pissed.

Just like geneticists, when there's no heads available to approve their genetic testing forms.

Or overstaffed security when there's no medical on nuke.

Or janitors, when there's no messy floors.

Scientists/roboticists are not special.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

What's this even supposed to prevent, though? Science militia is an issue for the admins if it's done in an inappropriate way, scientists with gun fetishes who print out massive quantities of weapons just 'cause it makes them happy are an issue for the RD, sec, and a DO if necessary... or maybe the admins. And scientist traitors have every reason to be making laser cannons for their own illicit use.

All this would do is make sec feel less insecure about their itty bitty little tazers, and increase the amount of work the RD has to do. And be a huge bother for scientists when there's no RD available, and give the HoS power over a department they don't really have any business having anything to do with. The HoS is responsible for station security, not weapons development.

[Chaznoodles]

Re-add lockboxes. They didn't obstruct anyone who was playing Scientist without the aim to murder or be police.

[Guest]

only if protopistols become the exception to this rule.